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Topic: 700R4

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700R4 (1/43)
 11/18/12 6:25pm
tonytheroofer
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Rochester, NY - USA

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1980 L- 82 fully restored and upgraded.


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In a different topic a lot came up about this transmission TH700R4 

So I am going to list what you will need to make it easy and professional so if at anytime in the future you need to do anything or the car is sold it will be as if the 700R4 was factory done.

Of course a tranny , I got a core off craigs list and you need a 31 spline unit so buy one 87 and up and a good car to get one from is the huge station wagons of the late eighties and early nineties as many had the corvette drive train in them. Make sure it is a 700R4 and not a later 4l60e which is an electronic 700R4 and WILL HAVE no TV cable on passenger side of tranny.

Get a cross member from BTO over drives I do not suggest there tranny because it costs so much , so get a core from craigs list and ask your local corvette club and people at cruise nights who they consider a top notch tranny builder .

TV cable comes in a universal unit where the end will hook up to the kick down carb linkage and the cable fits into the kick down holding bracket. And it is adjustable in length.

Tranny mount is same th350 to th700R4 

Dipstck tube . almost always there on a used tranny ( Core ) 

The biggest hassle is having drive shaft cut , but word of wisdom you also should get new U joints no matter what tranny you put in cause your there ,, anyway cutting a drive shaft and balancing it will be between 50 and 100 total with joints up op to 150.00

Torque converter I went with a 2400 stall cause I have a modded engine , if your modded 2400 to 2600 is fine any more would apply to 500hp and above so dont worry about 3000 or even 2800. Stock motor go stock stall speed on converter

If your tranny  now is solid and fluid is clean blow out existing tranny cooler lines with air if it is installed at a tranny shop ask them to flush lines ,, if you have a bad tranny and cant flush lines install a separate cooler and do not use cooler in radiator this avoids contamination of new tranny

Last but not least , ,shifterworks.com  YOU NEED THIS because it really makes job easier and allows you to not only have the auto 4speed detent on shifter but gives you tranny mounting hardware for shift cable and gives you the new lens that will show P R N D 3 2 1 

Overall once you get the parts together the process of installing tranny is no different then installing the th350 back into car ,, the cross member is sweet it really makes life easy and overall once it is complete it is really a WOW moment , one of those things you will do unlike any other because the take off power is there and when you hit open road and 4th gear kicks in your gonna say wow i guarantee it 
 


 




______________
1980 , ZZ430 , 3.92 rear , 700R4 2400 stall NEW EZ EFI 
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Re: 700R4 (2/43)
 11/18/12 10:54pm
Case75
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1975 Corvette 383 stroker w/Patriot 190 heads, Eagle stroker kit, Comp 279TH7 cam, DUI distributor, Edelbrock 7116 intake, Edelbrock 1806 carb, Hedman Hedders, TH400 w/TCI Breakaway 2400 stall, Transgo 1-2 shift kit.


Joined: 6/19/2012
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Thanks for the info. Might be doing this next year. I had mine out for a run today and even with the 3.08 rear I'm turning about 2300 rpm at 60 mph; I keep waiting for the tranny to shift into overdrive...but it's a THM400. LOL 

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Build Date: May 7, 1975. 383 w/267 RWHP/310 RWTQ
Re: 700R4 (3/43)
 11/19/12 12:32am
ROCKRDR
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Good write up I'm thinking of doing mine too but I've been also looking in to the
 200 r4 conversion, you dont need a new crossmember, or drive shaft so I 
have heard. my motor is not "built" just stock 350 with a th400 3.08 gears.
I'm still researching. 



______________
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Re: 700R4 (4/43)
 11/19/12 9:12am
manchestersharkLifetime Member
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I have also heard that the R-4 200 will also work without doing a cross member change, and a few other small things, cables and such.  Where can you find a R-4 200, and what vehicles will cross/interchange with the mounts?  Just a basic change to get more MPG, no big HP or Mods.

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Re: 700R4 (5/43)
 11/19/12 9:31am
Case75
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1975 Corvette 383 stroker w/Patriot 190 heads, Eagle stroker kit, Comp 279TH7 cam, DUI distributor, Edelbrock 7116 intake, Edelbrock 1806 carb, Hedman Hedders, TH400 w/TCI Breakaway 2400 stall, Transgo 1-2 shift kit.


Joined: 6/19/2012
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manchestershark said: I have also heard that the R-4 200 will also work without doing a cross member change, and a few other small things, cables and such.  Where can you find a R-4 200, and what vehicles will cross/interchange with the mounts?  Just a basic change to get more MPG, no big HP or Mods.

A 200-4R is 1/8 inch longer than a THM350 short shaft (27 3/4" vs 27 5/8"); you're '72 should have come with a THM400 short shaft which has a length of 28 1/4". A 700R4 has a length of 30 3/4 ". The 200-4R has a first gear ratio of 2.74:1 while the 700R4 has a first gear ratio of 3.06:1; the THM400 has a 2.48:1 first gear and a THM350 has a 2.52:1 first gear. The 700R4 will launch the best if you're keeping your old 3.08 rear end. That's the one I'm going with; best of both worlds, quicker launch and better MPG.

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Build Date: May 7, 1975. 383 w/267 RWHP/310 RWTQ
Re: 700R4 (6/43)
 11/19/12 10:07am
tonytheroofer
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The 2004R is more a direct swap , When I was looking for a core I could not find a 2004R and the 700R4 was easier to find but took effort I was lucky to grab one off craigs  list for 150.00 paid my builder 800.00 to rebuild it and supply my 2400 stall T/Q converter . 

So if you can find a 2004R yes it is easier but one word of warning to those with low gear rear ends , in over drive  with a 3.08 rear once it hits od and locks up you may find your motor at to low an rpm which will cause the car to lug and the trans to shift up an down a lot on different road surfaces like hills or inclines. Now it may seam 1400 rpm at 55 is great but with out fuel injection you could hate what you end up with. Someone else may have a 3.08 and the O/D who could pipe in because I am going from what I expect you will encounter maybe someone has a real world experience and can tell us all how the combo works. 




______________
1980 , ZZ430 , 3.92 rear , 700R4 2400 stall NEW EZ EFI 
Re: 700R4 (7/43)
 11/19/12 11:34am
Case75
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1975 Corvette 383 stroker w/Patriot 190 heads, Eagle stroker kit, Comp 279TH7 cam, DUI distributor, Edelbrock 7116 intake, Edelbrock 1806 carb, Hedman Hedders, TH400 w/TCI Breakaway 2400 stall, Transgo 1-2 shift kit.


Joined: 6/19/2012
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tonytheroofer said: The 2004R is more a direct swap , When I was looking for a core I could not find a 2004R and the 700R4 was easier to find but took effort I was lucky to grab one off craigs  list for 150.00 paid my builder 800.00 to rebuild it and supply my 2400 stall T/Q converter . 

So if you can find a 2004R yes it is easier but one word of warning to those with low gear rear ends , in over drive  with a 3.08 rear once it hits od and locks up you may find your motor at to low an rpm which will cause the car to lug and the trans to shift up an down a lot on different road surfaces like hills or inclines. Now it may seam 1400 rpm at 55 is great but with out fuel injection you could hate what you end up with. Someone else may have a 3.08 and the O/D who could pipe in because I am going from what I expect you will encounter maybe someone has a real world experience and can tell us all how the combo works. 



A very good point and something I have been thinking about. I've been thinking that a 3.36 rear would be a good compromise between a 3.08 and a 3.55. The 3.36 will cruise at 1750 RPMS with a .70 overdrive at 60 mph with a 27.1" tire (255/60/15) and the 1.63:1 second gear will give 3500 rpm at 50 mph for passing and climb to 5500 rpm at 80 mph. And it will still lug along at about 1500 rpm in overdrive at 50 mph. Decisions, decisions. Chime in anybody.

______________
 
Build Date: May 7, 1975. 383 w/267 RWHP/310 RWTQ
Re: 700R4 (8/43)
 11/19/12 11:35am
VikingVette
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I have a ZZ4 (so not a LOT of HP), a 3.73 rear end and the TH350.  When I am going 65 mph I am cranking around 3300 rpm.  I don't like long drives at this sustained rpm.  Tony, you mentioned some prices in your original post.  IF I could find a decent tranny, what would be a good, all inclusive, approximate figure I would be looking at for a transmission shop to rebuild it, and for my good (and reasonably priced mechanic) to install it?

______________
Warning: The surgeon general has declared that it is NOT unhealthy to smoke your competition AND I just discovered that my corvette is a hybred.  It burns gas and rubber! 
Re: 700R4 (9/43)
 11/19/12 11:56am
CWALKER
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Check out Extreme Automatics web page. They have overdrives that seem pretty decent. Lots of information.



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Re: 700R4 (10/43)
 11/19/12 12:20pm
VikingVette
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DWALKER,
Thank you for the idea.  I have sent them an e-mail asking them for their advice and suggestions.


______________
Warning: The surgeon general has declared that it is NOT unhealthy to smoke your competition AND I just discovered that my corvette is a hybred.  It burns gas and rubber! 
Re: 700R4 (11/43)
 11/19/12 1:04pm
manchestersharkLifetime Member
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 Mr. Viking, Keep us in the loop and share any and all info you find.  THANKS!

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Re: 700R4 (12/43)
 11/19/12 1:59pm
VikingVette
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yetanother dumb question from me.  What is the difference between a 2004R (like extreme automatics sells dor $1,496 and a TH700R4?  Is one a true 4 speed automatic and the other an overdrive unit?  I am like a lot of people in here.  I am not too concerned about the mileage, but I do not want to run for any length of time at 3200 - 3300 PRM (doing between 65 - 70 mph). 

I plan on taking the '78 on the 2014 national corvette caravan and I want to at least be able to keep up with all those dad-gummed, fancy, new fangled phiberglass chariots.  On the 2009 caravan, once we got close to Bowling Green, we had a state trooper escort and we were doing over 80mph behind him for 20-30 miles.


______________
Warning: The surgeon general has declared that it is NOT unhealthy to smoke your competition AND I just discovered that my corvette is a hybred.  It burns gas and rubber! 
Re: 700R4 (13/43)
 11/19/12 3:05pm
Case75
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1975 Corvette 383 stroker w/Patriot 190 heads, Eagle stroker kit, Comp 279TH7 cam, DUI distributor, Edelbrock 7116 intake, Edelbrock 1806 carb, Hedman Hedders, TH400 w/TCI Breakaway 2400 stall, Transgo 1-2 shift kit.


Joined: 6/19/2012
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VikingVette said:

yetanother dumb question from me.  What is the difference between a 2004R (like extreme automatics sells dor $1,496 and a TH700R4?  Is one a true 4 speed automatic and the other an overdrive unit?  I am like a lot of people in here.  I am not too concerned about the mileage, but I do not want to run for any length of time at 3200 - 3300 PRM (doing between 65 - 70 mph). 

I plan on taking the '78 on the 2014 national corvette caravan and I want to at least be able to keep up with all those dad-gummed, fancy, new fangled phiberglass chariots.  On the 2009 caravan, once we got close to Bowling Green, we had a state trooper escort and we were doing over 80mph behind him for 20-30 miles.

This Wikipedia article explains it pretty good: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turbo-Hydramatic
 
Basically, a 200-4R is derived from a THM200 with better internals which in itself was derived from a cheaper version of the THM350. A 700R4 is derived from the THM400. The 700R4 became the 4L60 and then the 4L60E in the 90's and was used in Vettes, Camaros and trucks. I'd say the 700R4 is a tougher tranny.



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Re: 700R4 (14/43)
 11/19/12 3:07pm
DaveMLifetime Member
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I have a ZZ4 engine with the 700R4 trans and a 3.55:1 rear and I'm very happy with the way it runs. I get about 20/21 MPG on a trip and it runs at 2200 RPM @ 70 MPH.
My car is an '82 so it came with the 700R4 trans, I just rebuilt it. I'm sure either the 3.36 or the 3.55 rears would work fine, I just like that little extra kick off the line.
Just more info for the mix.
Dave


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Re: 700R4 (15/43)
 11/19/12 3:46pm
VikingVette
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Case,
Thank you for that information.
 
Dave,
Thank you for your input too.  I remember your car from Charleston and it is a beauty.
 
First I need is a new radiator and getting the A/C working, but before the 2014 caravan, I would like to upgrade the transmssion and based on what you two jsut told me, I think I will strive for a 700R4. 
 
Again, Thank you both for your input. 


______________
Warning: The surgeon general has declared that it is NOT unhealthy to smoke your competition AND I just discovered that my corvette is a hybred.  It burns gas and rubber! 
Re: 700R4 (16/43)
 11/19/12 4:10pm
KDADDY79
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One more thing;
Factor in the cost of having some exhaust work done when doing this swap.
When I got mine back with the 700R4 installed I had an exhaust leak(s). Ultimately I had to have a new true dual system installed and they had to spend some extra time getting the bends just right.
I'm real happy with the 700R4 in my '79.! It's an excellent upgrade to do on our C3's.
The take off from a dead stop is much better and you can't beat saving those RPM's on the highway. I also really like the feeling of the downshift from O.D. to 3rd. gear. It really takes off!
 
Kevin  
Re: 700R4 (17/43)
 11/19/12 4:29pm
VikingVette
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KDADDY,
Excellent point.  Thank you.  Shortly after I bought this car (15 years ago) the original exhaust system broke.  When I got this car, there was absolutely NO pollution controls on it.  The exhaust place I took it to had nothing but straight sections of pipe.  He put my car on a lift, eye-balled a piece, got a piece of straight pipe off the wall, mandrel bent it, held up up to make sure it was OK (and it always was...he never used a tape measure), welded everything into place and spray painted the welds with high temp silver paint.  So I have a true dual exhaust.  When I had the ZZ4 put in, that guy installed Hooker Headers, so I have no idea how/if any piping would need to be re-done.  But you brought up a VERY good issue.  Thank you. 


______________
Warning: The surgeon general has declared that it is NOT unhealthy to smoke your competition AND I just discovered that my corvette is a hybred.  It burns gas and rubber! 
Re: 700R4 (18/43)
 11/19/12 4:57pm
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Case75 said: This Wikipedia article explains it pretty good: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turbo-Hydramatic
 
Basically, a 200-4R is derived from a THM200 with better internals which in itself was derived from a cheaper version of the THM350. A 700R4 is derived from the THM400.

I been kinda following along on this one, but I had to jump in...sorry...I just cain't help meself....Embarrassed


" itself was derived from a cheaper version of the THM350"
Uh...not....LOL
Other than the steel checkballs in the valve body, and the use of Dextron fluid, there is absolutely nothing in a 200/2004R that is derived from the 350 series transmissions. These are two totally different transmission designs. Thumbs Up

"A 700R4 is derived from the THM400. "
Uh...again...not...LOL
The 700 is closer to the 350 trans, and even uses the same low/reverse clutches and steels, as well as the center support/low-reverse sprag. The 350(non-lock up) and 400 transmissions can use the same torque converters, but the 350 usually has a smaller diameter converter. The 400 converter will NOT fit the BOP(Buick/Olds/Pontiac) 350s, due to the shape of the bellhousing on those units.

All things being equal, and they rarely are, I would always go for a 700 over the 2004R. Yeah...I know...the 2004R is an easier swap, but the 700 is a better overall trans, with better 1st and O/D ratios. I've heard all of the guys claiming how stout the 2004R is, "They used them in the Burick Grand Nationals and T-Types". This am true, BUT...those transmissions had a LOT of upgrades done, and they still failed.
I do quite a few 700s for guys that are swapping them out for their 400 or 350s....I have yet to have anyone ax me to build a 2004R for them.
This am all just my opinion....I got no dog in this hunt, so....just trying to add a little more info. Thumbs Up

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Re: 700R4 (19/43)
 11/19/12 5:26pm
Case75
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1975 Corvette 383 stroker w/Patriot 190 heads, Eagle stroker kit, Comp 279TH7 cam, DUI distributor, Edelbrock 7116 intake, Edelbrock 1806 carb, Hedman Hedders, TH400 w/TCI Breakaway 2400 stall, Transgo 1-2 shift kit.


Joined: 6/19/2012
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Adams' Apple said:
Case75 said: This Wikipedia article explains it pretty good: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turbo-Hydramatic
 
Basically, a 200-4R is derived from a THM200 with better internals which in itself was derived from a cheaper version of the THM350. A 700R4 is derived from the THM400.

I been kinda following along on this one, but I had to jump in...sorry...I just cain't help meself....Embarrassed


" itself was derived from a cheaper version of the THM350"
Uh...not....LOL
Other than the steel checkballs in the valve body, and the use of Dextron fluid, there is absolutely nothing in a 200/2004R that is derived from the 350 series transmissions. These are two totally different transmission designs. Thumbs Up

"A 700R4 is derived from the THM400. "
Uh...again...not...LOL
The 700 is closer to the 350 trans, and even uses the same low/reverse clutches and steels, as well as the center support/low-reverse sprag. The 350(non-lock up) and 400 transmissions can use the same torque converters, but the 350 usually has a smaller diameter converter. The 400 converter will NOT fit the BOP(Buick/Olds/Pontiac) 350s, due to the shape of the bellhousing on those units.

All things being equal, and they rarely are, I would always go for a 700 over the 2004R. Yeah...I know...the 2004R is an easier swap, but the 700 is a better overall trans, with better 1st and O/D ratios. I've heard all of the guys claiming how stout the 2004R is, "They used them in the Burick Grand Nationals and T-Types". This am true, BUT...those transmissions had a LOT of upgrades done, and they still failed.
I do quite a few 700s for guys that are swapping them out for their 400 or 350s....I have yet to have anyone ax me to build a 2004R for them.
This am all just my opinion....I got no dog in this hunt, so....just trying to add a little more info. Thumbs Up

Thanks Adam. Goes to show you can't always believe the internet. Smile

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Build Date: May 7, 1975. 383 w/267 RWHP/310 RWTQ
Re: 700R4 (20/43)
 11/19/12 5:30pm
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LOL True.
I read about 1/4 way thru that Wiki thing, and started laughing. It's no different than anything else, tho. Wiki lets anyone that wants to add to/edit everything, so ya never really know what yer gunna get....kinda like a box o chok-o-lits. LOL

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Re: 700R4 (21/43)
 11/19/12 5:35pm
Case75
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Joined: 6/19/2012
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Adams' Apple said: LOL True.
I read about 1/4 way thru that Wiki thing, and started laughing. It's no different than anything else, tho. Wiki lets anyone that wants to add to/edit everything, so ya never really know what yer gunna get....kinda like a box o chok-o-lits. LOL


So where did these two trannys evolve from or were they clean sheet designs. And why have two different RWD OD trannys at the same time? For torque capacity and size maybe??

______________
 
Build Date: May 7, 1975. 383 w/267 RWHP/310 RWTQ
Re: 700R4 (22/43)
 11/19/12 5:42pm
VikingVette
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Thank you Joel (or Doctor Adam's),
As usual, your opinion is always welcomed and often sought out.  I wished that I was as smart as you in JUST ONE THING.
 
so now the question is: buy one as Tonytheroofer suggested, have it re-built and then installed....or bite the bullet and buy a reconditioned one? 
 
After the new radiator, A/C working and before the 2014 caravan, I will be hunting a 700 transmission.  Of course, I still have that valve seal issue, but is is half better...only ONE quart per tank of gas instead of two, like last spring. 
 
p.s. I was at a car show at Hendrick Motor Sports in Concord, NC this past Saturday.  They had trophies for the top 200 (almost 700 cars registered) and I got a top 200.  I also got one more confirmation from a man who has a '74 and has run a body shop his entire life, that my paint is original.  3 mechanics and myself have never found ANY overspray.  This guy I met looked at the hairline fractures around the passenger door lock and told me that (to him) this was a very good sign that the car had never been re-painted.  


______________
Warning: The surgeon general has declared that it is NOT unhealthy to smoke your competition AND I just discovered that my corvette is a hybred.  It burns gas and rubber! 
Re: 700R4 (23/43)
 11/19/12 5:50pm
tonytheroofer
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I use to run a transmission company back when a 700R4 was a new tranny , It sucked LOl.. GM worked it out , the 2004R I never did see many because not many where used and if you can get one built well go for it it will be fine . I happen to feel safer with the 700R4 it is more stout and much more common used in millions and millions of cars and trucks.

As far as some questions , if you buy the correct cross member from BTO your exhaust will be fine . Cost for a locally built unit and you supply the core should be under 1000.00 . I would guess a good shop if you bring the cross member , shifter linkages ,TV cable and core would then get around 1200.00 for rebuild and instillation . You will be out of pocket about 1600.00 total with the additional parts .

If you go on line with BTO and others you may be closer to 2k plus . But let me say I did not avoid on line for money , I stayed local because a transmission is not like a crate motor , it is not 100% new it is rebuilt and if you have an issue your local guys can deal with it, your not forced to pull it ship it back and wait on another one . 






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1980 , ZZ430 , 3.92 rear , 700R4 2400 stall NEW EZ EFI 
Re: 700R4 (24/43)
 11/19/12 5:50pm
tonytheroofer
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Grrr had a error posting yet it posted and I double posted ,, must have gears slipping lmao 







|UPDATED|11/19/2012 2:50:54 PM (AZT)|/UPDATED|


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Re: 700R4 (25/43)
 11/19/12 6:54pm
Adams' AppleLifetime Member
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Case75 said:So where did these two trannys evolve from or were they clean sheet designs. And why have two different RWD OD trannys at the same time? For torque capacity and size maybe??

Kinda sorta.
The 2004R was an upgraded 200. A lot of the actual parts inside the 4r are exactly the same as the regular 200...it's basically a 200 with an overdrive section added to the front end. The 200 was never intended for any kind of torque past what a 4 cylinder(at the time) would produce. The 2004R did upgrade some of the internal parts that were failing miserably in the 200, but it was still never intended for any real performance use. Thus, the 700R4. The GN 2004Rs are a different story.
The 700 was a stout unit, but it definitely had some teething issues, some that are STILL plaguing GM. Planetary failures are still super common. However, the 700 will handle just about anything you wanna throw at it in a car. It don't do so well in a larger, heavier truck(3/4 ton>)....so they never installed a 700 in 3/4 ton or larger trucks...those kept the 400, and eventually the 4L80E, which is a updated 400 w/overdrive.
The 700 was basically a clean sheet design, but they did incorporate some minor parts(mentioned above) from the 350, just to save development costs. Those parts had proven themselves in the field since '69. Some of the dimensions were also carried over from the 350, such as the tailhousing bolt pattern, bushing, and rear seal. Pretty much everything from the center support BACK was 350 derived, but modified for 700 duty.

You CAN get a 2004R that will stand up to mega-torque, but it's gunna cost ya waaaaay more than doing the same with the 700. The 2004R also takes less hp to turn in high gear(3rd), compared to the 700, so a lot of drag racers like to use them for that reason. Not much of an issue on a street car.




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Re: 700R4 (26/43)
 11/19/12 8:05pm
ROCKRDR
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Adams' Apple said:
Case75 said: This Wikipedia article explains it pretty good: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turbo-Hydramatic
 
Basically, a 200-4R is derived from a THM200 with better internals which in itself was derived from a cheaper version of the THM350. A 700R4 is derived from the THM400.

I been kinda following along on this one, but I had to jump in...sorry...I just cain't help meself....Embarrassed


" itself was derived from a cheaper version of the THM350"
Uh...not....LOL
Other than the steel checkballs in the valve body, and the use of Dextron fluid, there is absolutely nothing in a 200/2004R that is derived from the 350 series transmissions. These are two totally different transmission designs. Thumbs Up

"A 700R4 is derived from the THM400. "
Uh...again...not...LOL
The 700 is closer to the 350 trans, and even uses the same low/reverse clutches and steels, as well as the center support/low-reverse sprag. The 350(non-lock up) and 400 transmissions can use the same torque converters, but the 350 usually has a smaller diameter converter. The 400 converter will NOT fit the BOP(Buick/Olds/Pontiac) 350s, due to the shape of the bellhousing on those units.

All things being equal, and they rarely are, I would always go for a 700 over the 2004R. Yeah...I know...the 2004R is an easier swap, but the 700 is a better overall trans, with better 1st and O/D ratios. I've heard all of the guys claiming how stout the 2004R is, "They used them in the Burick Grand Nationals and T-Types". This am true, BUT...those transmissions had a LOT of upgrades done, and they still failed.
I do quite a few 700s for guys that are swapping them out for their 400 or 350s....I have yet to have anyone ax me to build a 2004R for them.
This am all just my opinion....I got no dog in this hunt, so....just trying to add a little more info. Thumbs Up


Yo Adam,
 If you have done some of those 700 conversions, would you mind enlightening us
on an exact procedure Thumbs Up .... inquiring minds want to know. Hug

yea, I know there are tons of information but if someone here has the blue prints 
for doing it that would be great, since the 200r4 swap is "easy" this might
make more lean towards the 700 over the 200. not all of us have a shop... either in
our backyard Wink or have the money to pay a shop for this conversion.. mainly
speaking for myself :)


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Re: 700R4 (27/43)
 11/19/12 8:41pm
rod7515Lifetime Member
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When finishing the 72 I decided to go with an overdrive trans to help during highway driving since I hope to do a lot of it going to the beach. My researched lead me to a 2004r because of the easier installation compared to a 7004r. The main differences in the installation from what I was told (and I can only go by that information since I never did a 7004r swap) are as follows and also keep in mind I was going from a TH400, I could use the original cross member without any modifications. That was true. The original exhaust still worked going thru the cross member. However when I changed exhaust I did have to change the cross member because of exhaust size. The trans mount is the same as well. Now as for the drive shaft I did not have to cut the shaft, but I did have to change out the input shaft and the front universal joint as well. Those are the only differences I ran into. I Purchased my trans from BTO and they upgraded many parts internally so the trans will hold up. Of course with each level of transmission upgrade so does the level of price of the trans. (local trans shop would have done a 2004r trans but none could change internal componets and machine work}The swap itself was easy but you have to go with a TV cable and plate to set it up. I had to make some brackets to fit up for the plate that goes under the carb which also raises the carb just a little bit more toward the hood! I have also installed an upgrade so the converter wont lock up until I reach 45 MPH and will drop out of lockup if I go below 45 MPH. Another $200 bucks. Its worth it! Now as for the gearing from what I understand is that the 1st and 2nd gearing is different with the 7004r having better gearing but once in 3rd gear both are at 1:1 and locked up in OD the 7004r is .70:1 while the 2004r is a .67:1. (if this isnt right let me know} Im not sure what the RPM difference would be but it cant be very much. I run 70MPH @ 2400/2500 RPMs with 4:11 gears. I am happy with the 2004r trans but I would guess if I went with a 7004r trans I would be happy as well.
Now as for the lugging when in OD I experienced this myself before I removed my factory 3:08 rear and installed the 4:11 rear. Mine would lug even at 50MPH and I would have to pull it down into 3rd. Some of that could be due to the cam where a stock engine may not give you that problem as bad. I dont race the car but I do manually shift it so I can feel the shifts! But that is optional!
Well thats my experience. As I said I am happy but only have 800 miles since completing it. Thats probably about the most miles I'll drive it a year so it should last a while.
Rodney


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Re: 700R4 (28/43)
 11/19/12 9:30pm
ROCKRDR
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rod7515 said: When finishing the 72 I decided to go with an overdrive trans to help during highway driving since I hope to do a lot of it going to the beach. My researched lead me to a 2004r because of the easier installation compared to a 7004r. The main differences in the installation from what I was told (and I can only go by that information since I never did a 7004r swap) are as follows and also keep in mind I was going from a TH400, I could use the original cross member without any modifications. That was true. The original exhaust still worked going thru the cross member. However when I changed exhaust I did have to change the cross member because of exhaust size. The trans mount is the same as well. Now as for the drive shaft I did not have to cut the shaft, but I did have to change out the input shaft and the front universal joint as well. Those are the only differences I ran into. I Purchased my trans from BTO and they upgraded many parts internally so the trans will hold up. Of course with each level of transmission upgrade so does the level of price of the trans. (local trans shop would have done a 2004r trans but none could change internal componets and machine work}The swap itself was easy but you have to go with a TV cable and plate to set it up. I had to make some brackets to fit up for the plate that goes under the carb which also raises the carb just a little bit more toward the hood! I have also installed an upgrade so the converter wont lock up until I reach 45 MPH and will drop out of lockup if I go below 45 MPH. Another $200 bucks. Its worth it! Now as for the gearing from what I understand is that the 1st and 2nd gearing is different with the 7004r having better gearing but once in 3rd gear both are at 1:1 and locked up in OD the 7004r is .70:1 while the 2004r is a .67:1. (if this isnt right let me know} Im not sure what the RPM difference would be but it cant be very much. I run 70MPH @ 2400/2500 RPMs with 4:11 gears. I am happy with the 2004r trans but I would guess if I went with a 7004r trans I would be happy as well.
Now as for the lugging when in OD I experienced this myself before I removed my factory 3:08 rear and installed the 4:11 rear. Mine would lug even at 50MPH and I would have to pull it down into 3rd. Some of that could be due to the cam where a stock engine may not give you that problem as bad. I dont race the car but I do manually shift it so I can feel the shifts! But that is optional!
Well thats my experience. As I said I am happy but only have 800 miles since completing it. Thats probably about the most miles I'll drive it a year so it should last a while.
Rodney


Thank you, wonder how it would be with the 3.36 dont remember the ratio exactly

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Re: 700R4 (29/43)
 11/19/12 9:40pm
RedwingvetteLifetime Member
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Lots of great stuff has been posted so if you are interested I have a page on my install of the 200-4R in my 73. I bought the Level two package from BTO and did the install myself. 
I have a 3.55 rear gear.


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Dewitt radiator and dual electric fans
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Re: 700R4 (30/43)
 11/19/12 9:47pm
Case75
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Rodney: Thanks for giving us feedback on your experience. It helps us all in making some wise decisions.

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Re: 700R4 (31/43)
 11/19/12 11:14pm
rod7515Lifetime Member
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Hey Greg, we all own C3's, how wise a decision can we make! lol

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Re: 700R4 (32/43)
 11/19/12 11:23pm
Adams' AppleLifetime Member
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I haven't actually done a swap myself, but I have build several 700s for members here, and several for local club members. The last one for a feller here used a factory crossmember from a '77(I think) to install in his '81, and was a bolt in deal, other than having to elongate the mount bolt holes a wee bit. Of course, he had to shorten the driveshaft, and set up the TV cable linkage. I think he took it to a muffler shop afterwards to finish the exhaust. I did one a few months ago for a club member that bought a Bowtie xmember, brackets, etc., and he had a lot of issues with getting everything to fit correctly, so...who knows? Then again, this particular guy is a perfectionist.
I did do a swap many years ago from a 350 to a 700, but that was on an '82....that should have had a 700 in it to start with....someone had swapped it way back when...when nobody knew how to fix a 700....LOL

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Re: 700R4 (33/43)
 11/19/12 11:35pm
tonytheroofer
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Nice rod7515 with a 3.08 chimed in ! And confirmed my worry that gear would cause some issues. And the BTO cross member fit so well in my 1980 even accommodating the exhaust the goes from driver side and crosses to passenger side I was shocked . Matter of fact I am removing that pipe because the BTO cross member allows for a straight shot from header to over axle pipe allowing me to eliminate that one curved pipe. 

If some had an issue my guess would be he may have had a 80-82 cross for an earlier model that would cause problems or an earlier cross trying to fit it on a 80-82. I until today have never herd of a bto cross not fitting just right it is possible I guess it was manufactured off.


|UPDATED|11/19/2012 8:35:37 PM (AZT)|/UPDATED|


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Re: 700R4 (34/43)
 11/19/12 11:57pm
Case75
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rod7515 said: Hey Greg, we all own C3's, how wise a decision can we make! lol

True Rod, so true! When I bought mine this year I'm sure some people I know questioned my sanity. LOL

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Re: 700R4 (35/43)
 11/20/12 1:17am
ROCKRDR
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rod7515 said: Hey Greg, we all own C3's, how wise a decision can we make! lol


hear hear brother Handshake

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Re: 700R4 (36/43)
 11/20/12 1:27am
ROCKRDR
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Adams' Apple said: I haven't actually done a swap myself, but I have build several 700s for members here, and several for local club members. The last one for a feller here used a factory crossmember from a '77(I think) to install in his '81, and was a bolt in deal, other than having to elongate the mount bolt holes a wee bit. Of course, he had to shorten the driveshaft, and set up the TV cable linkage. I think he took it to a muffler shop afterwards to finish the exhaust. I did one a few months ago for a club member that bought a Bowtie xmember, brackets, etc., and he had a lot of issues with getting everything to fit correctly, so...who knows? Then again, this particular guy is a perfectionist.
I did do a swap many years ago from a 350 to a 700, but that was on an '82....that should have had a 700 in it to start with....someone had swapped it way back when...when nobody knew how to fix a 700....LOL

interesting, at least I dont have to worry about the exhaust with side mount pipes Tongue

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Re: 700R4 (37/43)
 11/20/12 1:28am
ROCKRDR
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Redwingvette said: Lots of great stuff has been posted so if you are interested I have a page on my install of the 200-4R in my 73. I bought the Level two package from BTO and did the install myself. 
I have a 3.55 rear gear.


link didnt work for me :(

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Re: 700R4 (38/43)
 11/20/12 9:13am
DaveMLifetime Member
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Flanders, NJ - USA

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The side pipes are out of the way, not an issue with the trans.
 By the way Jason, I was looking at your pictures of your rebuild, you've done a ton of work on the car, nice job.
Dave


|UPDATED|11/20/2012 6:13:21 AM (AZT)|/UPDATED|


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Re: 700R4 (39/43)
 11/20/12 10:14am
Adams' AppleLifetime Member
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ROCKRDR said:
Redwingvette said: Lots of great stuff has been posted so if you are interested I have a page on my install of the 200-4R in my 73. I bought the Level two package from BTO and did the install myself. 
I have a 3.55 rear gear.


link didnt work for me :(


Try this un...

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/565523/1973-chevrolet-corvette/page-15/




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Re: 700R4 (40/43)
 12/19/12 9:20am
manchestersharkLifetime Member
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Any new info on this swap?  I am looking at one. Do not know what it came out of.

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Re: 700R4 (41/43)
 12/19/12 9:50am
lukesvetteLifetime Member
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Posts: 6812

I did my 700R4 a couple of years back now. One of the best moves I made. With 3.73 gears in the Lukester, the low first gear is insane and costly for my tires. At 70 MPH, I'm turning about 2300 RPM as opposed to about 3400 RPM with the TH350.

Shortened my driveshaft 3" and wend tithe the BT Overdrives crossmember - fit like a glove!! Well worth the conversion cost!!

If you want the OD trans, I think a 700R4 is the way to go!!Thumbs Up

Paul
Re: 700R4 (42/43)
 12/19/12 10:09am
VikingVette
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This is my decision.  I have talked to a very reputable, local  transmission person (who happens to be in the process of restoring two sharks), so he is very aware of a C3.  Because I don't do very much freeway driving, I have decide to go with a set of 3.08 gears.  It was calculated that while dring at 65mph, I should be around 2550 rpm's (compared to my current 3200 rpm's).  I can buy a set of 'Yukon' gears, and the other items for $440.  The mechanic has not gotten back to me yet with a labor fee (this same guy rebuilds differentials too).  I am going this route because this is the least expensive and I have much more to do (radiator, A/C, brakes and finish chasing that oil useage issue).  If I had gone with a different transmission, I had decided (for me) I would have gone with the 200. 
 David


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Re: 700R4 (43/43)
 12/19/12 9:56pm
rod7515Lifetime Member
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Dave
Glad to see you have made a decision on which direction you are heading. My 74 has a TH400 with 3:08 gears. I have no issues driving it on highways and I think you will find there are a lot of vettes that have this gearing with an automatic. Are you going to get another carrier to do your gear change or are you removing your old gears and replacing them with the new gears using your current carrier. I only ask this because you can probably find a set of 3:08 gears and then keep your old gears in case you would have to go back to them. This is what I did with my 3:08 gears although I dont think I will ever be going back to them so they sit here on the floor going to waste. To bad your not closer. If you want an actual RPM reading in drive at different MPH I can give you what mine is.
Best of luck with your conversion.
Rodney


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