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Topic: 82 CFI Fuel Pump

in Forum: C3 Fuel, Emission Control, and Exhaust Systems


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82 CFI Fuel Pump (1/46)
 6/12/11 11:17pm
kwoody
Former Member

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Tucson, AZ - USA

Vette(s):
1982 Black/Tan Leather Build Code C09E Bronze TTop CrossFire Fuel Injection L83 85 Fuel Pump Auto Axle 2.72 Firestone Firehawk Indy500


Joined: 7/11/2010
Posts: 415

Hello All!
I've recently ran into the same kind of hesitation and sudden drop in engine power while at cruse speeds that I have seen before.  I replaced the fuel filter in the tank with no change.  I'm thinking about replacing the in-tank fuel pump again.  I replaced it (the in tank fuel pump) about 1 1/2 years ago after moving to Arizona.  It was having the same kind of problem.  I used a stock replacement from a local parts store.  That fixed the problem. 

Somewhere I remember a comment or two about using a 84 or 85 model year AC Delco pump.  I saw that after I had replaced and solved the problem.  Now, with everything pointing to a failing fuel pump, I think I'll go that route.  I seem to remember that the newer model pump puts out a higher pressure and that the 82 CFI system is very sensitive to fuel pressure.  The original (so I seem to remember) was a lower pressure or fuel flow. 

Any thoughts.  I really enjoy working on my baby now that the garage is complete. 

Thanks for the help.
Keith


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Nobody ever waves when I'm driving the Explorer.
K Woody
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82 CFI Fuel Pump (2/46)
 6/13/11 7:40am
crossfire1982
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Cramerton, NC - USA

Vette(s):
black 1982 coupe slate gray interior, 350 crossfire, 1985 fuel pump, Steeroids R&P conversion


Joined: 8/22/2006
Posts: 1094

The 82 and 84 pumps put out about 12 PSI and that pressure is "adequate" for the throttle bodies unless the pump has degraded and dropped lower.  The 85 fuel pump outputs about 45 PSI, much more than the throttle bodies need.  The drivers side throttle body has a built in pressure regulator that was factory set at about 11 PSI and will prevent the excess pressure from getting to the injectors, the overpressure will simply return to the tank via the return line.  If you install the 85 pump I recommend that you rebuild your throttle bodies.  This is really a simple task using a kit readily available for less than $100.  The reason I recommend this is if the original 30 year old diaphrams are in place the added pressure may cause a problem.  If your 82 pump is weak you should notice an immediate difference in the stumbling problem when you change pumps but to reap the full benefits of the 85 pump you will need to modify your drivers side throttle body to make the fuel pressure regulator adjustable.  I modified my pressure regulator and adjusted it to 14 psi and it made a huge difference.  Ive done this mod twice and there was a very noticeable difference on both vettes.  If you decide to make the fuel pressure mod, let me know.  I have some info that will be beneficial to you. You have a PM.Crossfire19822011-06-13 04:52:45
82 CFI Fuel Pump (3/46)
 6/13/11 10:08am
kwoody
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Tucson, AZ - USA

Vette(s):
1982 Black/Tan Leather Build Code C09E Bronze TTop CrossFire Fuel Injection L83 85 Fuel Pump Auto Axle 2.72 Firestone Firehawk Indy500


Joined: 7/11/2010
Posts: 415

Great information Chip.  Thanks for the detailed PM.  That looks like something I can do.  I also noticed the fuel pressure rig that fits under the air cleaner.  I'll get one of those assy from DCS.  Any thoughts on using AC Delco as opposed to any other brand.  Generally, are there brands to stay away from?

Thanks for the help.
Keith


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82 CFI Fuel Pump (4/46)
 6/13/11 11:06am
crossfire1982
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Cramerton, NC - USA

Vette(s):
black 1982 coupe slate gray interior, 350 crossfire, 1985 fuel pump, Steeroids R&P conversion


Joined: 8/22/2006
Posts: 1094

I much prefer using a Delco pump.  The crossover line pressure gauge from DCS is a well made piece and makes tuning the fuel pressure much easier.  Give me a shout if you have any questions.

82 CFI Fuel Pump (5/46)
 6/13/11 11:42am
kwoody
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Tucson, AZ - USA

Vette(s):
1982 Black/Tan Leather Build Code C09E Bronze TTop CrossFire Fuel Injection L83 85 Fuel Pump Auto Axle 2.72 Firestone Firehawk Indy500


Joined: 7/11/2010
Posts: 415

Thanks again Chip.  I'll give DCS a call after 9am.  Their web site shows the pressure assy "out of stock".  They may just whip those up as ordered.  I can't see them being huge demand item since 82 are a sub-set of the corvettes out there and the 84-85s are different.  Did you have to adjust the bends in the pipes any when installing?  I know the assy should stay in place and clear the air cleaner.

Thanks,
Keith


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82 CFI Fuel Pump (6/46)
 6/13/11 12:53pm
crossfire1982
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Cramerton, NC - USA

Vette(s):
black 1982 coupe slate gray interior, 350 crossfire, 1985 fuel pump, Steeroids R&P conversion


Joined: 8/22/2006
Posts: 1094

No bending required.  The fittings allow some adjustment of the gauge but the tubing is bent precisely and fits perfectly.  The only problem is removal of the original crossover line, they are very difficult to remove in one piece.  I ended up heating / bending / grinding an open end wrench to hold the fittings on the throttle bodies themselves while I removed the fittings of the original crossover line.
82 CFI Fuel Pump (7/46)
 6/13/11 1:24pm
kwoody
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Tucson, AZ - USA

Vette(s):
1982 Black/Tan Leather Build Code C09E Bronze TTop CrossFire Fuel Injection L83 85 Fuel Pump Auto Axle 2.72 Firestone Firehawk Indy500


Joined: 7/11/2010
Posts: 415

Ok, I get the picture.  I had experience with oil lines going to the generators on the F-15s.  I've talked with Jim at DCS and the pressure assys are two weeks out.  So, I'll start PB Blasting the fittings to free them up a bit.  I have an ok from the wife to get a grinder "When you need to" since she insisted we give away my old one when we moved from Mass.

I'm just now getting all my tools divided into like groups.... wrenchy things... ratachie things and so on....  not really doing the metric/ English separation yet.  We really purged the stuff when we moved - mostly my stuff....

Keith


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82 CFI Fuel Pump (8/46)
 6/13/11 4:04pm
DaveMLifetime Member
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Flanders, NJ - USA

Vette(s):
1982 Black, ZZ4, Hooker Side Pipes, 3.55 Rear, Rebuilt & upgraded 700R4, All new suspension, brakes, & new Charcoal interior.


Joined: 1/27/2004
Posts: 2552

Hey Keith, even if you just put in a '85 pump without doing anything else you wil  see a difference.  The '85 pump will deliver a higher volume of fuel and you won't get any starvation at higher RPMs.
Doing what Chip says will only help even more.


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82 CFI Fuel Pump (9/46)
 6/13/11 9:11pm
kwoody
Former Member

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Tucson, AZ - USA

Vette(s):
1982 Black/Tan Leather Build Code C09E Bronze TTop CrossFire Fuel Injection L83 85 Fuel Pump Auto Axle 2.72 Firestone Firehawk Indy500


Joined: 7/11/2010
Posts: 415

Thanks Dave.  I found an ACDelco 85 pump in stock at a parts store downtown Tucson.  The counter guy looked up the specs on both the 85 and 82 pump.  The 82 was rated at 15 lbs and the 85 is rated at 50 lbs.

It was a little too hot for me to do anything this afternoon so I'll replace it on Wed early AM and see what happens. These days I don't drive anywhere with out 5 or 6 bottles of water in the car.  You really don't want to get stranded in the desert this time of year with out some H2O.

Thanks for all the help.
Keith


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K Woody
82 CFI Fuel Pump (10/46)
 6/14/11 2:04am
tb2k82ceLifetime Member
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Lemon Grove, CA - USA

Vette(s):
1982 C3 Collectors Edition 44000 miles, sat in the sun most of its life, My wife purchased it for me for Father's Day in 2007 from her girlfriend that had it for 19 years. It is on the road again. I'm retired but it is now my daily driver.


Joined: 10/17/2007
Posts: 2041

85 pump and a pressure gage works great.  Do you have the special tool to adjust your fuel pressure?  That thing cost a little bit.
 
I was wondering if the milage suffers if you have 14 PSI instead of 11 or 12PSI.  My CE only gets about 11 miles per gallon. I know it depends on how you drive but I do not think I'm that bad.
 
 
82 CFI Fuel Pump (11/46)
 6/14/11 7:15am
crossfire1982
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Cramerton, NC - USA

Vette(s):
black 1982 coupe slate gray interior, 350 crossfire, 1985 fuel pump, Steeroids R&P conversion


Joined: 8/22/2006
Posts: 1094

There is a special tool which is a "J" shape available from DCS they are well made but they are $$.  I have a buddy who has one of the DCS tools and it looks good laying in the toolbox but its a very rarely used tool.  I took the buba way out and made one from a piece of copper tubing (carefully bent to match the DCS tool) and a $10 flex shaft carburator adjusting tool from pepboys.  Mine isnt nearly as pretty as the DCS model but it works just as well.  I havent checked my mileage on a road trip but around town cruising I get a little better than 17 mpg on my crossfire, the same as before the fuel pump / pressure modification.  There is a ton of info on the fuel pump and fuel pressure modification on the crossfire injection vault at   http://www.crossfire.homeip.net/
82 CFI Fuel Pump (12/46)
 6/14/11 7:19am
crossfire1982
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Cramerton, NC - USA

Vette(s):
black 1982 coupe slate gray interior, 350 crossfire, 1985 fuel pump, Steeroids R&P conversion


Joined: 8/22/2006
Posts: 1094

In case other 82 owners are interested, here is a detailed post with pics on rebuilding the throttle bodies and removing the block off plate to the fuel pressure regulator. I have experience with only two crossfires that have been modified this way but both results were good.
Since the 85 fuel pump puts out much more pressure it's wise to replace the rubber fuel lines with high pressure fuel injection hose and good quality clamps at the connections.  If you consider adjusting the pressure on the regulator I highly recommend you replace the "O" rings, diaphrams and other goodies in the throttle bodies at the same time, after all, the originals are 30 years old.  I also HIGHLY recommend taking pictures at each step of the process to make sure you will have a reference to put things back.
 
I apologize for the length of this post but it takes this much to explain the process. Im sure I have left something out and if you have questions, send me a PM and Ill clarify if I can.  IF you decide to make the fuel pressure regulator adjustable the info below will be helpful.  The pics will be helpful if you just decide to rebuild the throttle bodies, its not difficult at all.  The pressure adjustment tool in the photos is a $50 bought one belonging to a buddy.  I made mine from a piece of copper tubing and an old carburator adjustment tool with a flex shaft on it.  You may decide to balance your throttle bodies which may help performance as well. It's important for the throttle bodies to operate exactly at the same time and to the same degree. This is not a difficult task but does take a little time.  I have a step by step procedure for this also if you are interested. OK, here goes.

Making the fuel pressure adjustable is not rocket science or really difficult, it just takes a little time and patience to do. You will need to order a throttle body rebuild kit before you start because you will be disassembling parts with gaskets between them. The kit is available from Ecklers as well as other suppliers. Once the gaskets are disturbed, you will need to clean the surfaces and install new gaskets and "O" rings. Pay careful attention to how everything goes together so you will know how to reassemble. Taking pictures as you go is a wise idea. 

First off, you will NOT need to remove the throttle body bases from the intake. You will need to remove the injector "pods" or "towers" from the bases. This can easily be one with the bases on the car. You will need to remove the 5 screws that hold the top of the tower to the tower itself. All of these screws are not the same length, keep track of which screw came from where. Once the 5 screws are out, you may need to tap the top the cover with a screwdriver or small hammer to jar it loose from the tower. After it is loose, remove the top and attached fuel fuel pressure regulator. Removing the injector itself is easy, just use a screwdriver to pry it out, here you see me using ahandle of a pair of pliers as a fulcrum for the lever. Pay PARTICULAR attention to the "O" rings and metal ring. These MUST be installed exactly right when you reassemble. Getting the injector back into its place with the spacer and "O" rings will be a difficult chore. It MAY be possible to leave the injector in place but scraping off the old gasket will be difficult but there are "O" rings and a screen filter on the injector itself that you will probably want to replace. You will next need to remove the the fuel pressure reguator from the lid. This will be done by removing the 4 screws that hold it in place. There is a STRONG spring in the regulator that mut be contained as you unscrew the 4 screws. This can be done either by mechanical clamps or with your hand . The spring is strong but not to the point that you cant hold it. Release all the parts that are inside and day attention to how the parts are arranged.  Be aware that the diaphrams are different for the drivers side and passengers side throttle bodies. When disassembling the pressure regulator DO NOT turn the screw on the pressure adjustment until everything is back together and you have a pressure gauge installed.  If the screw is left at its original position you should have the same pressure 11-12 pounds after reassembly as when you disassembled it. There is a "plug" in the bottom of the regulator that blocks the adjustment of the fuel pressure.  This plug must be removed by using a punch to drive it off, it will not give much resistance. Once the plug is removed, the regulator can be reassembled just as it was before. With the plug removed, you will be able to get to the adjustment stud. You now should be able to see how the tool works. By turning the stud, it moves the washer inside of the regulator and increases or decreases the spring tension inside of the regulator. Once the tower is reassembled onto the base and the injector is reinstalled, the tool is used to reach under the throttle body, engage the stud and adjust the pressure. The pressure you are looking for is 14 - 14.5.
Crossfire19822011-06-14 04:43:53
82 CFI Fuel Pump (13/46)
 6/14/11 8:43pm
kwoody
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Tucson, AZ - USA

Vette(s):
1982 Black/Tan Leather Build Code C09E Bronze TTop CrossFire Fuel Injection L83 85 Fuel Pump Auto Axle 2.72 Firestone Firehawk Indy500


Joined: 7/11/2010
Posts: 415

Thanks again Chip for sharing the information.  I'll do as you recommend and take lots of pictures.  I think I can put up with driving the RV around for a few weeks.  It does have a Dodge V8 350ci in it and curses right along. Well, once it gets going that is. The early AM here is still very nice and cool.  I'll post my progress.

Keith


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82 CFI Fuel Pump (14/46)
 6/15/11 1:11pm
kwoody
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Tucson, AZ - USA

Vette(s):
1982 Black/Tan Leather Build Code C09E Bronze TTop CrossFire Fuel Injection L83 85 Fuel Pump Auto Axle 2.72 Firestone Firehawk Indy500


Joined: 7/11/2010
Posts: 415

Hello all.  The 85 pump install went smoothly. She sure is a lot perkier now and no hesitation.  An extended leak check went fine and now I'm just waiting for rebuild kit and pressure meter assy.  Thanks again for all the help.

Gilbert:  I'm planing to make up an adjustment tool. I don't plan to do any extended driving until I get the TB rebuild kit and the DCS pressure assy.  I'm looking at the water pressure metering articles to also build a meter for setting the balance on the TBs.  Mine are still factory set and the engine really runs smoothly and does not make any disturbing sounds.  Mostly, I get the remark: "She runs quiet!" from passer-bys.  As you know everybody has a vette story they want to tell you.....
Keith
kwoody2011-06-15 10:27:43

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82 CFI Fuel Pump (15/46)
 6/15/11 2:29pm
crossfire1982
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Cramerton, NC - USA

Vette(s):
black 1982 coupe slate gray interior, 350 crossfire, 1985 fuel pump, Steeroids R&P conversion


Joined: 8/22/2006
Posts: 1094

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82 CFI Fuel Pump (16/46)
 6/16/11 2:03pm
tb2k82ceLifetime Member
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Lemon Grove, CA - USA

Vette(s):
1982 C3 Collectors Edition 44000 miles, sat in the sun most of its life, My wife purchased it for me for Father's Day in 2007 from her girlfriend that had it for 19 years. It is on the road again. I'm retired but it is now my daily driver.


Joined: 10/17/2007
Posts: 2041

If you want to borrow my fuel adjustment tool let me know and I will mail it to you.  We are almost neighbors being I'm a bedroom community to San Diego. 
 
Gilbert
82 CFI Fuel Pump (17/46)
 6/16/11 2:15pm
kwoody
Former Member

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Tucson, AZ - USA

Vette(s):
1982 Black/Tan Leather Build Code C09E Bronze TTop CrossFire Fuel Injection L83 85 Fuel Pump Auto Axle 2.72 Firestone Firehawk Indy500


Joined: 7/11/2010
Posts: 415

Thanks Gilbert.  That would be fantastic.  I was trying to find a good picture with a size reference so I could home brew one. 
I'll PM you with my info.  I'm considering the life membership and getting another C3 for the future. I thought I was gonna sell baby and get a plane but, those thoughts have vanished. 
Keith


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K Woody
82 CFI Fuel Pump (18/46)
 6/20/11 11:01am
kwoody
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Tucson, AZ - USA

Vette(s):
1982 Black/Tan Leather Build Code C09E Bronze TTop CrossFire Fuel Injection L83 85 Fuel Pump Auto Axle 2.72 Firestone Firehawk Indy500


Joined: 7/11/2010
Posts: 415

Hello All.

My TB rebuild kit should arrive tomorrow and I have removed and cleaned the IACs and the air ports where they mount .  I cleaned out a lot of gunk from the air ports.  I also found the HEI ignition coil cracked so, I replaced that and cleaned and deoxied the connectors in the ignition circuit. 

The Monument fire in Southern Arizona is about 80 miles SE of my location.  Evacuations are wide spread in the Seria Vista area.  A new fire has crossed the boarder at Sasabe.  That is SW of my location and may be a factor if it gets out of hand.  I want to get the Baby running again as soon as possible in case we have to get out fast.

Keith


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82 CFI Fuel Pump (19/46)
 6/20/11 12:24pm
chronos51
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Phoenix, AZ - USA

Vette(s):
1982 corvette crossfire production numer C5101985. Color is silver and claret. All original numbers match. slight mods to crossfire for better efficiancy and power balanced and added fuel pressure assembly between throttle bodies,


Joined: 6/12/2011
Posts: 139

The tool for the adjustment is the hardest thing to come across, i keep checking with the dcs site and they are always out of stock on the fuel line and the tool.
I wound up spitting my fuel line and putting a jeggs 15lb fuel pressure guage between the throttle bodies.
the Gm Double D tool I retrieved from a co-worker's friend.
 
Crossfire Injection Forum has a detailed tech artical on how to adjust the fuel pressure from start to finsih
 
 
I would recomend this link to anyone who is looking at adjusting their stock fuel pressure, they have taken good pics and give step by step instructions on how to do it.
 
Marcus


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82 CFI Fuel Pump (20/46)
 6/20/11 1:49pm
kwoody
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Tucson, AZ - USA

Vette(s):
1982 Black/Tan Leather Build Code C09E Bronze TTop CrossFire Fuel Injection L83 85 Fuel Pump Auto Axle 2.72 Firestone Firehawk Indy500


Joined: 7/11/2010
Posts: 415

Thanks Marcus,
Again Welcome to C3VR. 

Yeah, I am a member of the Vault and have been for about 6 months.  I don't see a lot of activity there but, the archived articles are great.  Thanks for the info on the tool.  I'll be able to fabricate something along the lines of the DCS tool. 

This is my first dealing with DCS.  Jim said the pressure assys were 2 week out when I talked with him a few days ago.  He has my number and email.  I have to give him the benefit of the doubt.  DCS has had outstanding reviews so, I'll wait the 2 weeks and give him another call. 

With the wild fire situation here in Southern Arizona, I have to keep Baby ready to make a quick escape but, I'm not driving her until I get the rebuild kit in and most likely until I pull the plugs, clean and re-gap them.

Thanks for the input and I hope you stick around.

All the best!

Keith


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82 CFI Fuel Pump (21/46)
 6/20/11 3:37pm
chronos51
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Phoenix, AZ - USA

Vette(s):
1982 corvette crossfire production numer C5101985. Color is silver and claret. All original numbers match. slight mods to crossfire for better efficiancy and power balanced and added fuel pressure assembly between throttle bodies,


Joined: 6/12/2011
Posts: 139

when you rebuild the tb's just make sure you do them one at a time. if you have a helper and you wanna do them both at the same time make sure you are apart, I helped the guy who i bought mine from and some how at some point we swapped the driver's side and passanger side tops. the fuel pressure regulator was on the front not the back and it really messed up how the car ran, he bought a new rear injector for it because we thought it was plugged.... 256.00. after i got it I really dove into it and realized the mistake swapped them around adjusted it and havent had an issue with the fp since.
it was one of those "i feel stupid moments" when I realized what had happened.
 
Marcus


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82 CFI Fuel Pump (22/46)
 6/22/11 3:02pm
kwoody
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Tucson, AZ - USA

Vette(s):
1982 Black/Tan Leather Build Code C09E Bronze TTop CrossFire Fuel Injection L83 85 Fuel Pump Auto Axle 2.72 Firestone Firehawk Indy500


Joined: 7/11/2010
Posts: 415

Hello all.

I decided to do them one at a time.  I did the front one first and that went smoothly.  All the new stuff fit and went back together easily.  The rear I had a slight problem getting the new o ring to fit.  It just seemed too large.  I ended up cleaning and inspecting the original and reusing that one.  The rebuild kit only had one screen in it so I ended up cleaning both old screens and reusing the best looking one.  The rear TB leaked as soon as I turned the key and I took it apart and using the original o ring it went back together ok.

Baby started on the first crank and leak checked ok.  It is now 103*F so, I'll let everything cool down a bit before reinstalling the air filter and breather.

I used my vice contraption for taking apart and reassembling the pressure assys.  I have the vice mounted on a heavy 10"x 7" piece of butcher block.  It is easy to position  and massive enough that circuit boards and small things are held great.  If I need to bang on something I can clamp it to the bench or work horse where ever I needed it.  Most of the time my old fixed location was pretty limited.
 

Thanks for the help and encouragement. 

Keith
kwoody2011-06-22 12:08:16

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82 CFI Fuel Pump (23/46)
 6/22/11 3:11pm
crossfire1982
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Cramerton, NC - USA

Vette(s):
black 1982 coupe slate gray interior, 350 crossfire, 1985 fuel pump, Steeroids R&P conversion


Joined: 8/22/2006
Posts: 1094

Good deal, glad it went smoothly for the most part Thumbs Up
82 CFI Fuel Pump (24/46)
 6/22/11 3:21pm
kwoody
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Tucson, AZ - USA

Vette(s):
1982 Black/Tan Leather Build Code C09E Bronze TTop CrossFire Fuel Injection L83 85 Fuel Pump Auto Axle 2.72 Firestone Firehawk Indy500


Joined: 7/11/2010
Posts: 415

Thanks Chip.  I'll button her up and take her down the road for a good check ride.  We are forecast for 108*F and it just hit 104*F so, it will be a good hot check.  I have not adjusted the fuel pressure yet so it will be a short test ride.  Thanks for the step by step.  The vice worked out well with the pressure assy.  The rubber inserts kept everything looking good.

Keith


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82 CFI Fuel Pump (25/46)
 6/23/11 3:21pm
kwoody
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Tucson, AZ - USA

Vette(s):
1982 Black/Tan Leather Build Code C09E Bronze TTop CrossFire Fuel Injection L83 85 Fuel Pump Auto Axle 2.72 Firestone Firehawk Indy500


Joined: 7/11/2010
Posts: 415

Hello, 
After taking Baby out for a nice hot test drive, I parked in the garage and noticed a bubbling sound coming from the gas tank.  I opened the gas cap and there seemed to be a big release of pressure.  I closed the gas cap and waited 10-15 seconds.  Opened it again and more pressure and more bubbling sounds. The gas caps are vented for letting air in but not out, Right?   Temp was right around 105*F.  The road temps could have be up around 115*F for about 40 minutes.  I have never noticed this kind of bubbling sound before putting in the higher volume/pressure fuel pump...

Any thoughts?  I also have a very active Check engine light.  I'll pull the codes when it cools down a little. 

Keith


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82 CFI Fuel Pump (26/46)
 6/23/11 7:11pm
crossfire1982
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Cramerton, NC - USA

Vette(s):
black 1982 coupe slate gray interior, 350 crossfire, 1985 fuel pump, Steeroids R&P conversion


Joined: 8/22/2006
Posts: 1094

Ive never had any pressure or bubbling from my tank or a release of pressure.  When you released the pressure the first time and put the cap back on, was the car running between the first and second opening of the tank?  You installed the new pump several days prior to rebuilding the throttle bodies I think, was everything OK after the pump install but before the TB rebuild?  Very strange!! Confused

Joel, have you ever heard of anything like this?
Crossfire19822011-06-23 16:28:13
82 CFI Fuel Pump (27/46)
 6/23/11 11:04pm
kwoody
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Tucson, AZ - USA

Vette(s):
1982 Black/Tan Leather Build Code C09E Bronze TTop CrossFire Fuel Injection L83 85 Fuel Pump Auto Axle 2.72 Firestone Firehawk Indy500


Joined: 7/11/2010
Posts: 415

Hi Chip.   The car has been sitting mostly since I replaced the fuel pump.  So this was the first long drive it has been on since both were completed.  It was also the hottest day so far this summer.  I took the gas cap off and it vented.  I replaced the cap and listened for the sound, heard the sound and about 15 seconds later removed the cap again.  It could be the ethanol gassing off.  I hate that stuff.  It also absorbs water. Unlikely here.  Our humidity has been running in the <17% range for weeks.

When driving it occasionally will loose power then the engine light comes on then just the power kicks back in ok..  It will work ok for a few minutes and then repeat.  The codes show O2, and running excessively rich.  Next, I'll pull and replace the plugs.  I bet they are original.  I got baby with 43,000 miles and was told the plugs were original. They were pulled, cleaned and regapped by my last vette mechanic at least once in the past 7 years I've had Baby.

Still having fun in the sun.
Almost forgot.  The car was not running and I did not restart it.

Keith
kwoody2011-06-23 20:07:05

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82 CFI Fuel Pump (28/46)
 6/24/11 3:19am
tb2k82ceLifetime Member
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Lemon Grove, CA - USA

Vette(s):
1982 C3 Collectors Edition 44000 miles, sat in the sun most of its life, My wife purchased it for me for Father's Day in 2007 from her girlfriend that had it for 19 years. It is on the road again. I'm retired but it is now my daily driver.


Joined: 10/17/2007
Posts: 2041

My 82 runs rich also before and after I put in a new fuel pump.  I can smell it when I check the exhaust out.  I also know because the mileage is so darn bad. 

I sure would like to figure out how to lean it out a little.

Tb2k82CE2011-06-24 00:20:06
82 CFI Fuel Pump (29/46)
 6/24/11 1:00pm
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Duncanville, TX - USA

Vette(s):
#1-1974 L-48 4spd Cp Med Red Metallic/Black deluxe int w/AC/tilt/tele./p/w-p/b/ Am-Fm/map light National/Regional/Chapter NCRS "Top Flight" #2-1985 Bright Red/Carmine Cp.L-98/auto Member: NCRS, NCRS Texas, Corvette Legends of Texas


Joined: 11/8/2003
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An O2 sensor code is telling you the fuel is either too rich or too lean....either that, or the 02 sensor just suddenly took a doo-doo. Since you just went thru the infectors and the regulator, I would have to suspect one or the other is causing the problems. A regulator that is opening too much, or at too low of a pressure would cause a lean condition, cause it to loose power at times, AND possibly give you the bubbling noises you hear in the tank. If it is returning a LOT of fuel back to the tank, it will aerate the fuel.

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82 CFI Fuel Pump (30/46)
 6/24/11 2:15pm
crossfire1982
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Cramerton, NC - USA

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black 1982 coupe slate gray interior, 350 crossfire, 1985 fuel pump, Steeroids R&P conversion


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Keith,  When you had the adjusting screw and the attached "tab" out of the fuel pressure regulator did you make any change in the screw to change the location of the tab on the screw?  Any change in the location of the tab on the screw  would make a change on the fuel pressure going to the throttle bodies; either up or down, depending on the direction the tab was moved. 
82 CFI Fuel Pump (31/46)
 6/25/11 2:19pm
kwoody
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Tucson, AZ - USA

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1982 Black/Tan Leather Build Code C09E Bronze TTop CrossFire Fuel Injection L83 85 Fuel Pump Auto Axle 2.72 Firestone Firehawk Indy500


Joined: 7/11/2010
Posts: 415

Hi all. Thanks for the inputs.  It could be a combination of a lot of things.  It was a very hot day and the drive was for about 40 minutes.  The CFI limp home mode is, as I under stand it, full rich so, when the O2 sensor codes the enrichment mode is kept on so, the mixture entering the combustion chamber is full rich.... pulling the plugs will confirm this.  The O2 sensor code has been active since I got Baby. I noticed this AM that the front injector is leaking (dripping) fuel when ignition key is turned.  I'll have to pull that apart and redo that. 

I received the fuel pressure adjustment tool yesterday from Gilbert... Thank you.  I'll call Jim at DCS on Monday and see when the fuel pressure meter assy will get here.

Also, I have disconnected the cruise control vacuum line.

Still having fun in the sun.

Keith
kwoody2011-06-25 18:06:34

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82 CFI Fuel Pump (32/46)
 6/25/11 4:15pm
dwright
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Victor, NY - USA

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2004 Commemorative Edition Coupe, Auto w/HUD. 13K miles in 2015. Sold 1982 Red Coupe


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Keith,

I didn't know you had a curse control. Or that it could be disconnected. The vacuum line makes perfect sense.
 
Sorry, I just couldn't resist.


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82 CFI Fuel Pump (33/46)
 6/25/11 9:08pm
kwoody
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Tucson, AZ - USA

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1982 Black/Tan Leather Build Code C09E Bronze TTop CrossFire Fuel Injection L83 85 Fuel Pump Auto Axle 2.72 Firestone Firehawk Indy500


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Posts: 415

Yes. I would have thought less of you if you didn't jump on that.

cruise control -  I stand correcteded.

Keith


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82 CFI Fuel Pump (34/46)
 6/25/11 11:13pm
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Duncanville, TX - USA

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#1-1974 L-48 4spd Cp Med Red Metallic/Black deluxe int w/AC/tilt/tele./p/w-p/b/ Am-Fm/map light National/Regional/Chapter NCRS "Top Flight" #2-1985 Bright Red/Carmine Cp.L-98/auto Member: NCRS, NCRS Texas, Corvette Legends of Texas


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Do you?

Rebuilding the TBs isn't a real tough deal, but they do seem to leak sometimes. Can you see where it is leaking, tho? Is it leaking thru the infector nozzle itself, or around the outside?


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82 CFI Fuel Pump (35/46)
 6/25/11 11:49pm
dskopp
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Oak Creek, WI - USA

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1981 Great White Shark. Red Interior, 350/190hp. PS, PB (SS), A/C CC, T-Tops, Going to remain as Stock as possible. Served three years in Active Duty Army, then Retired Air Force after 34 years! Badger State Vetts Car Club. 175,000 Original miles!!


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ALERT !!  ALERT!!  Watch out for that "Dave" guy.  He will jump all over you if you make a simple spelling mistake!!  I know, I have suffered his wrath!!!!  tee-hee
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82 CFI Fuel Pump (36/46)
 6/26/11 7:33pm
kwoody
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Tucson, AZ - USA

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1982 Black/Tan Leather Build Code C09E Bronze TTop CrossFire Fuel Injection L83 85 Fuel Pump Auto Axle 2.72 Firestone Firehawk Indy500


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Well the Good News is I pulled the front TBI injector tower apart and replaced the new O ring that was also just a little too big and leaked with the old O ring and it all went together smoothly and took it for a nice long, hot and cloudy test drive....  We even got a few drops of rain here.  Baby still dropped out of closed loop a few times and the idle stopped once in the parking lot. It was 108*F and the air conditioning was running. She idles between 600-800 rpm and when in closed loop preforms very well.  The only code that she set was the O2 sensor.  No leaks. No gurgeling sound today.  So, my plan is to finish the DCS pressure meter assy, set the fuel pressure to 14, replace the spark plugs and put in a heated O2 sensor. 

Tomorrow I'll see how she cold starts with the EGR and snorkel breather vane hooked up.  She should start to 1200 rpm for a while and then settle down to 800-900 rpm.  Well, That is the plan anyway.

When I went to college, there wern't no such things as sspelll cheekers or even electric typerighters.... We don't need no stinkin spells cheekers!

Havin fun in the sun.

Kieth


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82 CFI Fuel Pump (37/46)
 6/27/11 11:41am
tb2k82ceLifetime Member
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Lemon Grove, CA - USA

Vette(s):
1982 C3 Collectors Edition 44000 miles, sat in the sun most of its life, My wife purchased it for me for Father's Day in 2007 from her girlfriend that had it for 19 years. It is on the road again. I'm retired but it is now my daily driver.


Joined: 10/17/2007
Posts: 2041

On the fuel pressure I ran my 82 at 14 pounds and the mileage was 10 -11 mpg.  Really bad!  I just cut the pressure down to 12 pound before I sent you the tool and I looks like my mileage improved somewhat will not know for sure until I run a tank of gas. 
 
Is it possible or i'm I just hoping improving the milage was that easy?
82 CFI Fuel Pump (38/46)
 6/28/11 12:11am
kwoody
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Tucson, AZ - USA

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1982 Black/Tan Leather Build Code C09E Bronze TTop CrossFire Fuel Injection L83 85 Fuel Pump Auto Axle 2.72 Firestone Firehawk Indy500


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Posts: 415

Thanks Gilbert.  I'm going to shoot for 14 lbs to start.  Called DCS and no return call today....  The cold start flagged a new code from the get-go.  34-MAP.  That came on as soon as the engine started.  I replaced the MAP about 8 months ago.  So, I cleaned the electrical connector after the run. 

The engine started and ran at 1200 rpm for about a minute.  Then, it surged between 500 and 1200 rpm for about a minute.  The surges gradually went away and the idle settled down at 800 rpm...  The vane in the snorkel cycled ok.  The ambient temp was around 80*F.  I did not take her out for a drive.  So, I did not hit the 40mph, TPS >0 so, the O2 did not come on line.  But, I'm pretty happy for the moment.

Thanks

Keith 

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82 CFI Fuel Pump (39/46)
 7/3/11 8:31pm
kwoody
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Tucson, AZ - USA

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1982 Black/Tan Leather Build Code C09E Bronze TTop CrossFire Fuel Injection L83 85 Fuel Pump Auto Axle 2.72 Firestone Firehawk Indy500


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Posts: 415

Update:  Hello All.  Well, I ended up working most of the week but, was off all day today.  I picked up a new MAP sensor and changed that out early this morning. I took her out for a short test drive to the hand spray car wash I use and she ran great.  No CHECK ENGINE Light and a normal 800-900 rpm idle.  The air conditioner pumped out the cold air at stop lights and the  performance was with out surges or hesitations.  So, later in the day my wife and I went on a 65 mile Sunday drive during the hottest part of the day.  Same thing.  No engine lights or codes set !  This ride included the Gates Pass Road.  It has steep grades and hair pin turns.  Baby is running so much better now!  I'll have to video a ride up and down that pass. It is very exciting and a couple of "Oh Wow!" moments. 

Thanks again for all the help and encouragement.

Keith


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K Woody
82 CFI Fuel Pump (40/46)
 7/3/11 9:46pm
crossfire1982
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Cramerton, NC - USA

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black 1982 coupe slate gray interior, 350 crossfire, 1985 fuel pump, Steeroids R&P conversion


Joined: 8/22/2006
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Great to hear Thumbs Up
82 CFI Fuel Pump (41/46)
 7/5/11 9:37am
Jaws79Lifetime Member
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Sykesville, MD - USA

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1979 Corvette Coupe Corvette Light Blue Midnight Blue interior Mirrored Glass T-tops


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Isn't it great when they're running right? Glad to hear you got it straightened out.
 
Barry
 
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82 CFI Fuel Pump (42/46)
 7/5/11 2:36pm
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Duncanville, TX - USA

Vette(s):
#1-1974 L-48 4spd Cp Med Red Metallic/Black deluxe int w/AC/tilt/tele./p/w-p/b/ Am-Fm/map light National/Regional/Chapter NCRS "Top Flight" #2-1985 Bright Red/Carmine Cp.L-98/auto Member: NCRS, NCRS Texas, Corvette Legends of Texas


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Fantabulous newz!!!

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             NCRS

"Money can't buy happiness -- but somehow it's more comforting to cry in a CORVETTE than in a Kia"

82 CFI Fuel Pump (43/46)
 7/5/11 11:31pm
kwoody
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Tucson, AZ - USA

Vette(s):
1982 Black/Tan Leather Build Code C09E Bronze TTop CrossFire Fuel Injection L83 85 Fuel Pump Auto Axle 2.72 Firestone Firehawk Indy500


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Posts: 415

It sure is great when they are running right!  Then the rains came. 

Back to the van for mud season.

Thanks everyone.

Keith


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K Woody
82 CFI Fuel Pump (44/46)
 7/6/11 9:20am
Jaws79Lifetime Member
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Sykesville, MD - USA

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1979 Corvette Coupe Corvette Light Blue Midnight Blue interior Mirrored Glass T-tops


Joined: 4/27/2008
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Yeah, Keith, I saw on the news that you guys got HAMMERED out there! Hope all is well and NO leaks in the garage (or house)! Take care!
 
Barry
 
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82 CFI Fuel Pump (45/46)
 7/6/11 11:36am
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Flanders, NJ - USA

Vette(s):
1982 Black, ZZ4, Hooker Side Pipes, 3.55 Rear, Rebuilt & upgraded 700R4, All new suspension, brakes, & new Charcoal interior.


Joined: 1/27/2004
Posts: 2552

Alright Keith Clap glad to hear you are now enjoying the '82, instead of getting aggravated Wits End.
Have fun!
Dave
DaveM2011-07-06 08:37:07

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82 CFI Fuel Pump (46/46)
 7/12/11 6:25pm
kwoody
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Tucson, AZ - USA

Vette(s):
1982 Black/Tan Leather Build Code C09E Bronze TTop CrossFire Fuel Injection L83 85 Fuel Pump Auto Axle 2.72 Firestone Firehawk Indy500


Joined: 7/11/2010
Posts: 415

Wow!   Baby passed the AZ emissions test today and there was only a 2 minute wait at the Registry!  No rain today and it is still damp enough to keep the dust down.  She is running fantastic!  Very perky!

Thanks again for all the encouragement.

Keith


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Nobody ever waves when I'm driving the Explorer.
K Woody
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