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Topic: I Guess I Still Don't Get It

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I Guess I Still Don't Get It (1/10)
9/5/10 9:19am

manget1

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Indianapolis, IN - USA

Vette(s):
Silver 1974 Convertible - L82 4 speed Low miles (was only 8,900 when I bought it in March 2006) - Now 54K miles. Original owner bought it as an investment for son's college expenses. 2008 Jetstream Blue Convertible

Joined: 9/3/2006
Posts: 2418

I asked earlier this year about what wax product and what method everyone thought was best. The consensus (although there were lots of options) seemed to be Griot's. I didn't get a lot of feedback on the idea of using a buffer or doing it by hand, so I went the cheaper route (probably my first mistake) and did not buy their polisher.

Bear with me - I never seem to be able to explain my ideas in one or two sentances...

The results were fine, but not what I had hoped for. Using Griot's wash, clay and Best of Show wax got me no more of a shine than Meguire's had in the past (IMO).

So I started thinking more about getting the polisher. But you don't just buy the polisher. Between pads and polish and everything, about the cheapest I think I can get out of there is about $240.

So I called them. I will admit I was very impressed with the guy that answered and spoke to me. He walked me through the process so I would get a better understanding. However, what he told me surprised me and has me second guessing the polisher idea again. He said the process is this:

Wash
Clay Bay
Put on their Machine Polish with polisher
Buff off polish by hand
Put on Best of show wax with polisher (1 to 3 coats - "stack the wax")
Remove wax by hand

Really? Remove by hand?

It had seemed to me that the trick (benefit) of the polisher would have been the removal of the wax, but he said no. I noted that the Best of Show wax was really hard to get off by hand and he said I should also buy their spray wax (of course) that would loosen it up to make removal easier.

I asked about their polishing bonnets and he said that I certainly could buy those and use them to remove polish and or wax, but that they would very quickly fill with the removed wax and I would need plenty of them and he thought removing the wax by hand worked better.

So what's the story? Do I invest $240 in a machine and products (that price includes zero bonnets)I'm afraid I'm going to be dis-satisfied with? He assured me that if I wasn't completely satisfied I could return it, but can someone explain all of this to me? Why should or shouldn't I get the polisher, and if I shouldn't, what am I not doing today that I need to do to get the shine I want? If I get it, should I use the polishing bonnets to remove the wax? Or is there another step after I remove it by hand that I can use the bonnets on to make the shine just "pop!"? Can I get away with cheaper bonnets, pads, spray wax, etc from other places? If you've never looked at a Griot's catalog, they are far from cheap. I do have a benefit of working a few hundred yards from their warehouse, so I save on shipping costs (just pick it up), but that's a small consolation on top of everything else.

If you've gotten this far, I commend and thank you and look forward to your opinion

manget12010-09-05 06:26:11

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I Guess I Still Don't Get It (2/10)
9/5/10 9:57am

maintenance4
Former Member
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Tecumseh, MI - USA

Vette(s):
1980 all org. with 18000 act. miles dk claret with matching interior..Eagle alloys ..loaded..excellent cond.

Joined: 9/14/2003
Posts: 221

I bought a polisher (buffer) from Sears for less than $50.00 a few years ago and been happy with it. I also use Maguires show car glaze and it works well. Just a thought.

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I Guess I Still Don't Get It (3/10)
9/5/10 10:32am

yostusota
Former Member
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York, PA - USA

Vette(s):
1969 daytona conv. all original 350 350 380 4 sp w/air..and hard top

Joined: 5/18/2010
Posts: 1518

I haven't used the product you are using. I also bought the 9 inch random orbit polisher from sears 9 years ago..I used the Miguires Swirl x scratch remover then the NXT wax..with the paint quality that I have the car could not have looked better for Carlisle. I put the Swirl x on with the polisher using a foam pad and removed it by hand with ease...then put one coat of NXT on with the polisher using a terry cloth pad..and removed it using 3 terry cloth pads..I got these pads from Auto Zone..I think they were under 10 bucks for two..and I wash them like clothes at home..they have lasted years..I would be careful of using an expensive style buffer..I have seen very experienced detail people burn thru paint with them..the buffer must be used at a certain speed and pressure to not burn paint..I don't think its worth it to take that risk..with all the curves these cars have its to easy to do it wrong..there are no oops with those things!
Rich

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My first parade at Carlisle 2010

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I Guess I Still Don't Get It (4/10)
9/5/10 11:09am

pa78ce
Former Member
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Walla Walla, WA - USA

Vette(s):
1978 L-82 Pace Car

Joined: 12/2/2007
Posts: 52

I have purchased everything you discussed from Griots and have got excellent results. My car has the orginal paint and was water spotted and had lots of swirls when I got it, I also tried it by hand and got lackluster results, after buying the buffer I achieved what I was looking for. Yes the wax comes off hard but with the spray on wax it comes off easy and adds a little more luster. I would not recommend the wax removal bonnets. Just to wax it takes about 4 hours and for the initial polish and wax plan on 6 to 8 hours. I feel the buffer was worth the investment.

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I Guess I Still Don't Get It (5/10)
9/5/10 4:00pm

Gunslinger
Former Member
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Frederick, MD - USA

Vette(s):
1969 convertible L71 427/435 4-speed black interior

Joined: 9/8/2003
Posts: 3398

Griot's is outstanding stuff. The secret to it is following their directions. When they say use a little, they mean it...I found out that the hard way.

You got excellent advice from the rep at Griot's. The only difference for me is I use two of their waxes...their Carnauba Wax Stick topped by a coat of Best of Show Wax. The Wax Stick is longer lasting and the Best of Show stacked on top gives the car finish a foot deep, shimmering wet look.

When you had problems getting the Best of Show off, it's for one or two reasons...you either put it on too thick, and/or the temperature and humidity were high. What will happen...and not just with Griot's but many waxes, is if it's applied too thick, the surface dries before the product underneath the surface. Then when you try and wipe it off all you get is smears. High temperatures and humidity aggravates the situation. That's when spraying on their liquid wax, instant detailer or even a bit of water will help remove the smears. A little of the Best of Show wax goes a long way.

A random orbital is a great investment...Griot's makes one of the best and so does Porter Cable and Flex, though the Flex is more than twice as expensive. It does a superior job and is much faster than doing it by hand.

Also...don't go confusing waxes with sealants. A sealant can be called a synthetic wax, but it has different properties and gives a different look. A sealant will last far longer than a wax, and gives a highly reflective look to a car...some will say a "plastic" look. A wax is a sacrificial barrier you apply that isn't as durable as a sealant, and gives that shimmering, wet look to the car. It all depends on which look your prefer...I like the wet look and use quality carnauba waxes (like Griot's). On my family's daily drivers I use Griot's Paint Sealant since those cars are used every day in all kinds of weather. It works for me.

You can put a wax over a sealant but not a sealant over a wax. A sealant actually bonds with the paint surface and cannot do that if a wax is present as a barrier.

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I Guess I Still Don't Get It (6/10)
9/5/10 4:37pm

tb2k82ce

Lifetime Member
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Lemon Grove, CA - USA

Vette(s):
1982 C3 Collectors Edition 44000 miles, sat in the sun most of its life, My wife purchased it for me for Father's Day in 2007 from her girlfriend that had it for 19 years. It is on the road again. I'm retired but it is now my daily driver.

Joined: 10/17/2007
Posts: 2041

Why would someone choose at Griot's over a Sear's or other random orbital?

I have one I purchase years ago it needs to be replaced. The one I have I could never see burning the paint. It just never got that fast.

I look at cost of tools in a couple of ways. Ones that i will use seldom(may go cheaper brand) ones I will use all the time (buy something that will last). I also look at it as a one time cost.
Kind of like the cost of any product is the continuing costs not the one time. Think about computer printers and the ink it takes to refill them.

My current paint job can only be improved upon. You sure could not damage it more that it is. So it will be a good learning platform.

Speaking of that what is the best way to restore oxidized paint. I will paint it later but want to get used to driving it with the long nose first.

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I Guess I Still Don't Get It (7/10)
9/5/10 7:47pm

crossfire1982
Former Member
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Cramerton, NC - USA

Vette(s):
black 1982 coupe slate gray interior, 350 crossfire, 1985 fuel pump, Steeroids R&P conversion

Joined: 8/22/2006
Posts: 1094

I have a Griots polisher and love it for POLISHING. I admit, I dont care for their polishes or waxes and prefer Adams polishes and pads, but that's just personal preference. Even though I have the polisher and the pads to apply the wax, I usually do it by hand. I think the Griots , Meguiars and the Porter Cable 7424 are pretty much the same machine. When you look at polishers look at the orbits per minute, some of the less expensive ones do not have the power or speed of the Griots or Porter Cable.

Anyone considering a polisher but not sure, take a few minutes to look at some of the Junkman videos on YouTube, they will give you a good idea of what a good random orbit polisher will and will not do. Dont know why this inst showing as a link but you can copy and paste it.
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=junkman+detailing&aq=0
Crossfire19822010-09-05 16:49:02

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I Guess I Still Don't Get It (8/10)
9/5/10 9:38pm

Norsky

Lifetime Member
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Burke, VT - USA

Vette(s):
SOLD - "The Toy" - '70 Convertible
SOLD - "The Beast" - '90 ZR-1 (#682)
SOLD - "Betty" - '28 Ford Model A Tudor
Still have - "BLKBRRD" - '78 Pontiac Trans Am

Joined: 1/23/2002
Posts: 7190

The fellow who did the body/paint work on "BIGBRRD" swears by (not at) a buffer he has gotten at Harbor Freight (currently on sale for $29) and 3M pads. He lives pretty close to a HF outlet and gets the pads through his paint supplier.

Have gotten a lot of compliments on the paint/finish he did on "BIGBRRD" so far.

Norsky2010-09-05 18:39:02

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"The Toys"...!!! Save the Wave!

Where I've been in a Corvette...!!!

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I Guess I Still Don't Get It (9/10)
9/5/10 10:09pm

Gunslinger
Former Member
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Frederick, MD - USA

Vette(s):
1969 convertible L71 427/435 4-speed black interior

Joined: 9/8/2003
Posts: 3398

Try using a Griot's random orbital, a Porter Cable or a Flex and you'll see and feel the difference. You'll never go back to a lesser machine. I've tried several lesser expensive polishers over the years and was never satisfied and always went back to doing it by hand. After buying the Griot's I found what I have been missing.

It's like inexpensive polishes and waxes compared to high quality products...an inexpensive product applied to a properly prepped car will look better than an expensive product applied to an improperly prepped car. Get quality products and use them quality tools on a properly prepped surface and you will be amazed at the difference. After taking care of cars of my own since 1968 I was truly surprised how little I actually knew about prepping, polishing and waxing a car until I broke down and got quality products to do it with.

Buying quality doesn't cost...it pays. We're not polishing or waxing a car with an Earl Sheib paint job...we're talking Corvettes here.

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I Guess I Still Don't Get It (10/10)
9/5/10 10:15pm

Gunslinger
Former Member
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Frederick, MD - USA

Vette(s):
1969 convertible L71 427/435 4-speed black interior

Joined: 9/8/2003
Posts: 3398

[QUOTE=Norsky]The fellow who did the body/paint work on "BIGBRRD" swears by (not at) a buffer he has gotten at Harbor Freight (currently on sale for $29) and 3M pads. He lives pretty close to a HF outlet and gets the pads through his paint supplier.

Have gotten a lot of compliments on the paint/finish he did on "BIGBRRD" so far.

[/QUOTE]

Norsky...

I'm not knocking what your detailer says and the results. I've used Harbor Freight tools for some things myself...I even got my utility trailer from HF and it does everything I need.

I'd be interested in seeing how long that HF buffer holds up compared to a Griot's, Flex or PC random orbital. Griot's stands behind everything they sell and their customer service is among the best. One of their orbitals will be running long after the HF buffer has been replaced several times...maybe even in the middle of a detailing.

Your guy may even be a real artist who gets the best from his equipment...the kind who can use rattle cans to spray a car and it will look better than many with the best spray guns and paint.

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