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Topic: Expansion Tank

in Forum: C3 Cooling and Heating Systems


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Expansion Tank (1/17)
 3/23/13 9:07pm
rlu1968
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Gordonvillle, TX - USA

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1968 Roadster 427


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Let me see if I can explain this to anyone. The expansion tank is for the overflow of the radiator. However it also connects to the heater core. 
The tank has two upper hose connections, and two lower connections. The way I understand from prior forums that the most upper connection hose will go to the radiator for the overflow. The next outlet goes to the overflow of the expansion tank and it is just a hose going towards the ground.
 The other two hose connection will be for the 3/4 hose, or the larger hose coming from the water pump. In which this hose will be just cut in half and one end going into the expansion tank and the other end into the other side of the expansion tank which then heads up to the heater core. In other words the expansion tank sits in between the 3/4 hose (larger hose) that goes from the water pump to the heater core.
Sounds logical!
However what keeps the expansion tank from filling up completely and then overflowing through the expansion tank overflow???? The water pump continues to pump water towards the heater core through the expansion tank which then over fills.
So I have anti freeze all over the garage floor, with a near empty radiator. 
Where did I go wrong, on installing this expansion tank????


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Re: Expansion Tank (2/17)
 3/24/13 9:08am
tonytheroofer
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Your expansion tank is to handle coolant that expands as it heats up ... period ... that's it end of story . I have no idea why your putting it between the heater hose supply to the  heater core, those hoses connect directly to the heater core interrupted only by a heater control valve.




|UPDATED|3/24/2013 6:08:12 AM (AZT)|/UPDATED|


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Re: Expansion Tank (3/17)
 3/24/13 10:52am
rlu1968
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Gordonvillle, TX - USA

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Go back to April 5th 2012 under expansion tank forum. That is what I went by, so with that in mind what would be the purpose of the two outlets at the bottom of the expansion tank if they didn't go to the heater core?? 
You might be thinking of just the engine cooling recovering tank. I am referring to the expansion tank which is aluminum on a 1968 through 1973. 
Corvette Central Catalog show a picture of the expansion tank and shows the heater hose sets going to the tank, but no further explanation. 


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Re: Expansion Tank (4/17)
 3/24/13 11:04am
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Duncanville, TX - USA

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He's doing it like that because that's the way it's s'posed to be. The expansion tank goes in-line on one of the heater core hoses ...always has. I think the main question is, which hose to tie it into. I believe it should be in the hose coming from the intake fitting to the heater core. Since the two hoses are different sizes, the size of the fittings on the expansion tank should be a clue as to which section is used.

 In this other thread , Bob said he had info on how it goes. Perhaps he will share again.



Rich, if you are getting coolant out of the expansion tank onto the floor, perhaps your cap is not doing it's job? The air that is in the tank should keep the coolant from leaking out unless either the engine is running hot, and/or the cap is not holding a seal. You might try a new cap first.
Someone here HAS to have a '68-'69 AIM that would clear up this confusion... Anyone?


|UPDATED|3/24/2013 8:04:08 AM (AZT)|/UPDATED|


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Re: Expansion Tank (5/17)
 3/24/13 11:47am
tonytheroofer
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rlu1968 said: Go back to April 5th 2012 under expansion tank forum. That is what I went by, so with that in mind what would be the purpose of the two outlets at the bottom of the expansion tank if they didn't go to the heater core?? 
You might be thinking of just the engine cooling recovering tank. I am referring to the expansion tank which is aluminum on a 1968 through 1973. 
Corvette Central Catalog show a picture of the expansion tank and shows the heater hose sets going to the tank, but no further explanation. 


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Re: Expansion Tank (6/17)
 3/24/13 5:15pm
rlu1968
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The larger hose the 3/4 is the only heater hose that fits the expansion tank. I have a new cap on the expansion tank. 
Somehow the theory is all bad. How can you pump water into a tank(a continuos stream of water fueled by the water pump) with one other outlet going to the heater core and not expect the tank to fill up faster than it is going out towards the heater core, thus spilling antifreeze out the overflow on the expansion tank. Why did the expansion tank in the small blocks even need to go to the heater core. I have a shut off valve coming and going from the heater core and they are both open. 
Maybe the answer lies in the fact that I have a big block radiator, use to have a 427 engine, now i have a small block. The 427 did not come with expansion tank. I don't really see how this could make a difference though. 
I liked the looks of the expansion tank, but can't see the whole picture on how it works. 


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Re: Expansion Tank (7/17)
 3/24/13 7:08pm
F4GaryGold Member
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Wow, I never realized those years had that.  My LT-1 just has an overflow hose to the ground. 

So why was it designed that way with the heater hose going through it?  Doesn't make sense to me.


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Re: Expansion Tank (8/17)
 3/24/13 10:40pm
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Duncanville, TX - USA

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The design concept is similar to what you have in your water heater at home(or storage tank of a system with well water). There needs to be a space at the top that is nothing but air...a cushion of sorts. It also provides an amount of compression in the system. This is what keeps the tank from just filling all the way to the top with the engine running. As long as there is a specific, minimum amount of free air space in the tank, you should have NO leakage/spillage out of the tank under normal operating conditions. "Normal" meaning that the radiator does NOT also have a radiator cap on it, the cap on the expansion tank is holding the specified pressure, and the engine is not overheating. 

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Re: Expansion Tank (9/17)
 3/26/13 1:25pm
rraider1
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Re: Expansion Tank (10/17)
 3/26/13 7:32pm
rod7515Lifetime Member
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Bob, thats interesting as they are marked 68-72 and 69-72. I have a 72 and dont have a tank like htat on mind. Does it just represent BB cars or maybe ones with AC? Mines a small block with no air. Hope it helps the original poster.
Rodney


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Re: Expansion Tank (11/17)
 3/26/13 10:25pm
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Supposedly, in '68, none of the big blocks had the expansion tank, even tho the L-88s did. In '69, SOME of the big blocks had one. I think it had to do with the radiator used for the specific engine. I think the engines with the aluminuminum radiators used the expansion tank, but not the copper radiators. Don't know for sure, tho...the info I have is confusing, at best.Confused

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Re: Expansion Tank (12/17)
 3/27/13 7:37pm
rlu1968
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Now I understand, somewhat! 
I had a radiator cap on the radiator as well as on the expansion tank. The expansion tank just filled up and overflowed. So instead of having a sealed cap for the radiator just put a regular cap on the radiator (has to be caped) and put the sealed cap on the expansion tank and fill it close to half way and it should not overflow.
RICHT??? 
I just took the whole darn thing off, I really don't need it anyway. 


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Re: Expansion Tank (13/17)
 3/28/13 9:58am
rraider1
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Here is some more info I found hopefully someone can add it all up and fill in some gaps

the long expansion tank is for 69 to 72 427/454 W/AC copper Rad
 
The barrel expansion tank is for 68 to 72 with Aluminum Rad all 327/350 Except 70 to 72 LT1 and 68-69 WO AC
 
Plastic coolant Recovery started 73
 
The expansion tanks are presurized systems and depends on type of radiator I beleive do not have a cap on them the cap is on the tank?
The plastic ones are coolant recovery non presurized started 73

 

 RADIATOR: There are two types in Corvettes – the stacked-plate aluminum Harrison design with a separate expansion tank, and the conventional copper/brass type with no expansion tank. The Harrison aluminum design is by far the more efficient, as it has the most fin-to-tube contact area, which is how the heat is transferred to the air. Copper/brass conventional radiators need larger cores, as they have less fin-to-tube contact area due to having narrower tubes, and they’re heavier. Another key difference is that aluminum radiators can’t be repaired, and they’re expensive to replace; copper/brass radiators can

be repaired or re-cored using the original side tanks, and they’re also less expensive to replace.

EXPANSION TANK: Conventional copper/brass radiators with fill openings have side tanks that serve as reservoirs to accommodate coolant expansion; that’s why the “Full Cold” mark is several inches below the filler neck – to allow for expansion of hot coolant. The Harrison stacked plate aluminum radiator has no side tanks – it’s all core, from end to end, so it needs an external reservoir to provide a fill point and to accommodate coolant expansion. The companion Harrison aluminum tank has the cap/fill point, an inlet from the top of the radiator to provide a path to the tank for expanded coolant, an overflow hose

from the filler neck, and the bottom of the tank has a fitting connected with a tee to the return hose from the heater core to the water pump inlet fitting so the tank is connected to the coolant circulation system and functions as a reservoir. They are trouble-free unless the relatively thin aluminum has been attacked by corrosion (which is why they use a unique RC-26 filler cap with no plain steel exposed to the coolant).



|UPDATED|3/28/2013 6:58:40 AM (AZT)|/UPDATED|
Re: Expansion Tank (14/17)
 3/27/13 8:09pm
dyoes
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Zachary, LA - USA

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Hopefully I'm not being redundant, and more importantly I hope I'm accurate. The early Sharks had a pressurized expansion tank. The radiator and expansion tank caps were not vented as the later ones were, although I believe the expansion tank had a relief function. As water heats, it expands, and level rises in the expansion tank. Taking the cap off of the expansion tank is just like uncapping a hot radiator: it's under pressure, and will flash to steam if over 212F. The expansion line can be hooked up anywhere in the system, it really doesn't matter, as it's just additional volume for the system and keeps the radiator solid. The later ones (74 and up, I believe?) had a siphon/relief type coolant reservoir. Not technically an expansion tank. The radiator has a different type of cap: it both relieves on high pressure, and opens for reverse flow as the radiator cools (and the coolant subsequently contracts, forming a vacuum in the radiator). So excess water is displaced through the cap into the reservoir when it's hot, and sucked back into the radiator when it's cold. The reservoir is not under any pressure and is constantly vented to the atmosphere. Explains the "hot" and "cold" fluid levels on the reservoir. Two different ways of tackling the same problem: water expands when it gets hot. But in the later application, car makers don't have to worry about people burning themselves while checking coolant level. Earlier cars didn't have either one: you simply didn't fill the radiator up all the way. Fill it up too full, and it would relieve out onto the ground (someone mentioned an overflow line straight to the ground: that's it!). Hopefully I've gotten this right. Let me know if I've but out bad info, my skin isn't thin. :) Darryl

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Re: Expansion Tank (15/17)
 3/27/13 8:31pm
dyoes
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Zachary, LA - USA

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Oh: one way to avoid the expansion tank is to install a catch can (vented). Change the radiator cap to a late model one, and buy a cheap expansion tank and run a hose to it. The hose has to go all the way to the bottom so it can siphon back in... I've seen hot rodders use a longneck beer bottle and a hose. It doesn't have to be high tech!

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Re: Expansion Tank (16/17)
 3/28/13 10:00am
rraider1
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I tried to update the applications if someone sees something wrong please correct
 
 
the long expansion tank is for 69 to 72 427/454 W/AC copper Rad
 
The barrel expansion tank is for 68 to 72 with Aluminum Rad all 327/350 Except 70 to 72 LT1 and 68-69 WO AC
 
Plastic coolant Recovery started 73
Re: Expansion Tank (17/17)
 3/28/13 12:15pm
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rlu1968 said: I had a radiator cap on the radiator as well as on the expansion tank.


My unnerstanding is that combo will NOT work...as you have discovered. You cannot have two pressure caps in the system.
Bob...I've never seen the longer skinny surge tank...neat! Thanks for sharing that info, too!


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