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Topic: Freeze 12 r314a or r12

in Forum: C3 Cooling and Heating Systems

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Freeze 12 r314a or r12 (6/16)
11/13/06 11:55pm

Adams' Apple

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Duncanville, TX - USA

Vette(s):
#1-1974 L-48 4spd Cp Med Red Metallic/Black deluxe int w/AC/tilt/tele./p/w-p/b/ Am-Fm/map light National/Regional/Chapter NCRS "Top Flight" #2-1985 Bright Red/Carmine Cp.L-98/auto Member: NCRS, NCRS Texas, Corvette Legends of Texas

Joined: 11/8/2003
Posts: 20129

[QUOTE=timgman] If freeze 12 is not a good answer... how hard is the swap to 134a?
[/QUOTE]

Not that hard, actually. Drain all the oil out of the compressor, unless you are installing a new one, in which case it will be dry anyway. Flush the system with A/C flush really well, and then blow it as dry as you can. Replace the dryer(if you have one...'77 was a "change-over" year).
Put the correct amount of oil in the compressor, evacuate the system for a hour or so(more is better, here), check to see that the system will hold the vac. for a while(again, more is better), and then charge it with 134.
To be PC(and legal...

), you will need to put adaptors on the fittings, so R12 equipment will not fit.

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Freeze 12 r314a or r12 (7/16)
11/14/06 4:48pm

timgman
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mexico, NY - USA

Vette(s):
1977 corvette

Joined: 7/10/2006
Posts: 90

Flush Blow and vacume?
do I need specialtools for this? how can I tell if I have a dryer?
is there a procedure page on the net? Ifthere is I have yet to find it ;)
I'll make one .. I swear ...

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Freeze 12 r314a or r12 (8/16)
11/14/06 4:57pm

timgman
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mexico, NY - USA

Vette(s):
1977 corvette

Joined: 7/10/2006
Posts: 90

how about this stuff?
http://www.icorinternational.com/hotshot_opening.html

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Freeze 12 r314a or r12 (9/16)
11/14/06 10:12pm

Karmel77

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Clarksville, TN - USA

Vette(s):
1977 L48 T Top, Dark Blue

Joined: 10/22/2005
Posts: 265

First step is to recover any R12 that may be in the system, this will require a refrigerant recovery machine ( to be legal Wink

). You will need a vacuum pump to do proper evacuation. This boils off any moisture in the system prior to charging with new refrigerant. Vacuum is not the best leak detection method as it is only a force of 14-15 PSIG. The system will be exposed to much higher pressures when it is operating. A standing pressure check with dry nitrogen is the best method of insuring a leak free system.

There is no direct drop in for R12. No matter what they say. All the ozone friendly refrigerants use POE (polyester) oil, R134A is not compatible with the mineral oil used with R12. That is why it is so important to drain the mineral oil and change the dryer as Joel said. The compressor will operate fine with R134A as long as you charge with POE oil.

The system will work for a while with these so called drop-in replacements but the long term best answer is to ditch the R12 drain the mineral oil, flush system, change the dryer + orifice, leak check, evacuate and charge POE oil and R134A.

Over time the mineral oil will degrade R134A and performance will be lost.

Unfortunately some of these special tools are rather costly Unhappy

. If the system has lost all the R12, no need for a recovery machine but the vacuum pump is a must!!

There's my 10 cents!!! My wife says this is my winter project for our 77 as well!!

Good luck!!

Mel

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Mel
Lifetime Member #90

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Freeze 12 r314a or r12 (10/16)
11/14/06 11:13pm

Adams' Apple

Tim, take a look at THIS THREAD...it has some good info on doing this.

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Freeze 12 r314a or r12 (11/16)
11/30/06 9:53am

my7t1

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Dorr, MI - USA

Vette(s):
71 Colonnade Hardtop Coupe Torch Red with black interior originally L48 built to push around 360hp

Joined: 8/21/2002
Posts: 2581

[QUOTE=timgman]how about this stuff?
http://www.icorinternational.com/hotshot_opening.html

[/QUOTE]

NO!! Hot shot is a corktail soup. 53% R22 ( no way), 34% R12, 10% r143a, And here's the scary part, 3% R600a which is isobutane. Can you say melt down. I have retro fitted 100's of cars using R134a in my business. I will go with nothing else!! The posts are accurate as far as retrofitting to 134a. As far as the oil I use, its pag 150 vis. in GM cars. The mineral oil is not compatible with 134a. I can still get r12, but you have to be careful where you get it. There's a lot of contaminated r12 coming across the border. If the repair is done properly with no leaks epically on older cars I use r12. That's what the older cars are designed for. The big reason is the hoses. The newer cars use a barrier hose, meaning its lined with teflon. R134 can absorb through the older style hose. I haven't really seen enough difference in the duct temp between the two. The big advantage of using 134a over r12 is the price. I'm paying around $100.00 for 30 lbs. of 134a as opposed to as much as $1200.00 for r12. I am charging just about as much to retrofit as to charge with r12, however if the ac needs to be charged again in the future it costs a whole lot less. If the repairs are done properly it shouldn't need to be charged again for a long time if ever. Just my opinion. Hope it helps. Terry

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Freeze 12 r314a or r12 (12/16)
11/30/06 10:35am

Adams' Apple

HOT LINK for above "HOT SHOT" link...that one is not a good address(URL). Just in case ya'll want to see what kind of crap some people are willing to sell!

Also, take a gander at the MSDS(material safety data sheet) to see just what kind of "C o c k t a i l" it really is!!

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Freeze 12 r314a or r12 (13/16)
11/30/06 11:46pm

dwright
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Victor, NY - USA

Vette(s):
2004 Commemorative Edition Coupe, Auto w/HUD. 13K miles in 2015. Sold 1982 Red Coupe

Joined: 7/12/2004
Posts: 6836

I had mine converted over to 134a as soon as I got it. Has been working great ever since.
Do I need to do any maintenance or checking with it now?
It's been three years.

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Freeze 12 r314a or r12 (14/16)
12/1/06 12:05am

Karmel77

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Clarksville, TN - USA

Vette(s):
1977 L48 T Top, Dark Blue

Joined: 10/22/2005
Posts: 265

Dave,

As a rule if it's blowing good cold air your good to go!! The system is supposed to be completely sealed so about the only maintenance is to keep the condenser clean and free of bugs and dirt. If your getting good cold air after 3 years I would say your in good shape. The more you run the system the better, does it no good to sit.. As the oil moves through the system it keeps all the seals lubricated and doing their job.

BTW Cold air is coming your way, it's creeping into Tennessee as I type!!

Mel

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Mel
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Freeze 12 r314a or r12 (15/16)
12/1/06 12:05am

Adams' Apple

Dave, as long as it's werking, and cooling well, you're good to go.

And some good info for everyone with werking A/C systems....turn the A/C on every so often in the wintertime...it will circulate the lubricant thru the system, and also keeps the seals in the compressor from sticking to the shaft, and then tearing next summer when you use the A/C for the first time.

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Freeze 12 r314a or r12 (16/16)
12/1/06 6:30am

Thanks. Good info guys.

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