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Topic: puzzled w/ engine temp SOLVED

in Forum: C3 Cooling and Heating Systems


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puzzled w/ engine temp SOLVED (1/28)
 4/7/07 5:38pm
74stingray454
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Willow Grove, PA - USA

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1974 Stingray Coupe LS4 454 Dark Brown Metallic with Deluxe Saddle interior


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hey gang, help me out....

 
Last year my corvette never overheated and it was plagued with rusty colored coolant, standard 4 row rad, a 195 degree t-stat and factory fan/shroud setup.... she ran about 210 faithfully.....
 
this winter I changed the cam/lifter/timing chain and so on....
 
also added a dewitts rad, dual SPAL fans, a hi-flow 180 deg t-stat and a Stewart Stage 1 water pump thinking it should run much cooler..... only to have now the guage hits 220-230 ... so I changed the temp sending unit, no change in how the guage reads.....
 
 
 
Using a Infrared thermometer that is accutate +- 1 degree.... the water pump inlet to engine from rad is registering a temp of 195 and the coolant is 208 degrees when measured at the water outlet (gooseneck) on intake
 
the hottest I could measure the temp was at the water outlet and it was 225....
 
all temps were taken on a 40 degree day and car sitting still in my garage..
 
 
ideas why this thing appears to be running so much hotter? or the guage is reading so much stranger I am used to my small blocks running at 180-195 and this engine hitting 210 kinda freaks me out
 
thanks all and Happy Easter!
 
 
**** UPDATE****
Ran a direct wire ground to the fan sending unit to have the fans run all the time.... drove the car 75 miles and it never broke over 200 degrees.... so either the sending unit is bad or it simply has a bad ground to the radiator...
74stingray4542007-04-09 08:55:36
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puzzled w/ engine temp SOLVED (2/28)
 4/7/07 6:59pm
Gunslinger
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Frederick, MD - USA

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It could be a couple of things...

air in the cooling system that needs to be bled out;
a bad radiator cap;
defective thermostat;
timing too far advanced;
loose belts;
water pump.

When I say water pump, I know you replaced it with a high performance unit. Sometimes a water pump that flows too much coolant too fast will not allow the liquid to stay in the radiator long enough to transfer heat and goes right back to the block and heads. It's a long shot, but that could be it.

Did you completely flush the system when the work was done? There could be a restriction in the block.

Make sure all the seals around the radiator were installed properly. They are critical for efficient cooling in a Vette. Otherwise airflow is going around the radiator instead of through it.

Also...pour a bottle of Water Wetter in the system.Gunslinger2007-04-07 16:03:38
puzzled w/ engine temp SOLVED (3/28)
 4/8/07 8:38am
rick d
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williamston, NC - USA

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 another long shot, but make sure you have the right rotation water pump, water may be circulating backwards,rd
puzzled w/ engine temp SOLVED (4/28)
 4/8/07 8:41am
lukesvetteLifetime Member
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HOWELL, NJ - USA

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Did you put in  new thermostat? With everything else you did, unless the water is flowing in the wrong direction, this is where I'd start...
puzzled w/ engine temp SOLVED (5/28)
 4/8/07 8:44am
74stingray454
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Willow Grove, PA - USA

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well, I did backflush the system in the fall and a lot of stuff came out... I flushed it till it ran clear and then some...

 
new GM rad cap, new robertshaw t-stat.... I think I might change these two items first and see what happens
 
 
Correct rotation water pump, that I am sure of...
 
as far as the rad seals, with the rad mounted Spal fans, I didnt think they'd be too critical? I have a few of them mounted, but not all
 
 
puzzled w/ engine temp SOLVED (6/28)
 4/8/07 8:46am
74stingray454
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Willow Grove, PA - USA

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if its not one thing, its another.... but really, is a big block running at 210 excessive?
puzzled w/ engine temp SOLVED (7/28)
 4/8/07 9:40am
Gunslinger
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Just a thought...by any chance have you installed a serpentine belt system? They use a reverse flow water pump and if you replaced that with a standard flow, even a high flow standard rotation unit, that could definitely cause problems.

As RickD said, make sure you have the correct direction flow water pump.

Hope you find it's a simple problem with a simple fix.
puzzled w/ engine temp SOLVED (8/28)
 4/8/07 11:09am
DaveMLifetime Member
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Flanders, NJ - USA

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At what temp. do the electric fans come on? Maybe it needs to be lowered. Do you still have the stock fan & shroud in place?

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puzzled w/ engine temp SOLVED (9/28)
 4/8/07 4:11pm
74stingray454
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Willow Grove, PA - USA

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I am suing the std belt driven arrangement.... the water flows fine....
 
the dual elec fans kick in at about 195-200
puzzled w/ engine temp SOLVED (10/28)
 4/8/07 6:03pm
eddie20875Lifetime Member
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Lanoka Harbor, NJ - USA

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jim, as i understand from what i read and heard the rad seals aren't as critical as they are with standard setup. i am in the process of installing mine so i can't tell if its because of your bb. they do make lower temp sensors you might want to try. you may want to try a lower temp stat. i know for mine they say you can use the standard 195, but also list a 180 or a 165 as a replacement.

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puzzled w/ engine temp SOLVED (11/28)
 4/8/07 9:16pm
DaveMLifetime Member
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Flanders, NJ - USA

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The thermostat only controls the min. temp. of the engine not the max. temp.

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puzzled w/ engine temp SOLVED (12/28)
 4/8/07 10:27pm
eddie20875Lifetime Member
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[QUOTE=DaveM]The thermostat only controls the min. temp. of the engine not the max. temp.[/QUOTE]

yes thats right. a lower temp stat will let the water start flowing sooner so the temp might not get that high. also with a lower temp sensor for the fans will make it so they don't have to cool it down from a higher temp.


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puzzled w/ engine temp SOLVED (13/28)
 4/8/07 10:45pm
lukesvetteLifetime Member
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HOWELL, NJ - USA

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1979, Targa Blue (72 Color), Pace Car rear spoiler, L88 hood, Dark blue factory interior, 525HP 406, HD 700R4, 370 gears,Steeroids, composite rear spring, TT IIs wrapped in T/A Radials.


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A lower thermostat sometimes may not give water enough time to cool in the radiator also....
 
C3s are somwewhat hot blooded due to the limited amount of grill space. As pointed out in a related thread, the holes in the bottom filler panel and the spoiler are meant to improve the air supply to the front of the radiator.
 
Have these higher temps also sustained at cruising speed? If so, then definitely something not right if it got hotter than before. Hotter temps after idling for a long time could give you a false impression - tells me something if the temp maxed at 225 and went no higher.... perhaps you need some air movement besides what the fans are pulling while parked to see what the true operating temperature is....
 
Just some additional thoughts, thinking about your symptoms Jim.
 
Good luck
puzzled w/ engine temp SOLVED (14/28)
 4/9/07 7:40am
74stingray454
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Willow Grove, PA - USA

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Today ( monday) its supposed to be nice and cool, I think Ill take her for a ride and see what happens! and while I am out, pick up a different t-stat74stingray4542007-04-09 04:48:00
puzzled w/ engine temp SOLVED (15/28)
 4/9/07 8:02am
warbird
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I have the same setup as you, my BB stays at 200 degrees. Since everything was fine until you did your upgrades, I suggest you also look at your timing.
Also check all of your hoses to make sure none are kinked or collapsing, especially the lower rad hose.
puzzled w/ engine temp SOLVED (16/28)
 4/9/07 8:33am
74stingray454
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Willow Grove, PA - USA

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my timing is set right at 12 degrees, all the hoses look fine as well..... lower hose is good to go   thanks for the input
puzzled w/ engine temp SOLVED (17/28)
 4/9/07 11:56am
74stingray454
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Willow Grove, PA - USA

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**** UPDATE****
Ran a direct wire ground to the fan sending unit to have the fans run all the time.... drove the car 75 miles and it never broke over 200 degrees....
 
so either the sending unit is bad or it simply has a bad ground to the radiator allowin gthe sending unit to turn on ONLY when it has a good ground... I look at this being the culprit a week or so ago.... guess I should have paid it more attention
 
puzzled w/ engine temp SOLVED (18/28)
 4/9/07 12:18pm
jgoglickLifetime Member
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Glad you found the problem. From experience, C3 grounding issues are a pain. Angry
puzzled w/ engine temp SOLVED (19/28)
 4/9/07 8:37pm
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puzzled w/ engine temp SOLVED (20/28)
 4/9/07 8:49pm
lukesvetteLifetime Member
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HOWELL, NJ - USA

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Time to do the happy dance Tongue
puzzled w/ engine temp SOLVED (21/28)
 4/9/07 8:53pm
ranger3Lifetime Member
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That's great news. Nothing worse than installing a lot of new parts and having a bigger problem than you started with. Glad it worked out.
Scott
puzzled w/ engine temp SOLVED (22/28)
 4/9/07 9:07pm
eddie20875Lifetime Member
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Lanoka Harbor, NJ - USA

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glad to hear it worked out. i remember you saying you checked it for ground and it was good. now i know for sure i will attach a ground wire to the radiator to make sure. wierd how it can check out ok one minute and not the next.Thumbs%20Up

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puzzled w/ engine temp SOLVED (23/28)
 4/10/07 11:26am
74stingray454
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Willow Grove, PA - USA

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Yes, If you're running the sending unit built into the rad, do run a ground wire from the BODY of the sending unit to a point on the car. Once I did that the fans kicked on and off like a champ.....
 
I guess soon I need to post a few pictures of the car and tell my story of how I came to buy it.
puzzled w/ engine temp SOLVED (24/28)
 4/10/07 11:32am
74stingray454
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Willow Grove, PA - USA

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I also called Dewitts and explained to them what happened and they were goin gto look at the assembly and see if in fact they are using too much teflon on the threads of the sending unit. ( SPAL recommends NO sealing compound on the sending unit)
puzzled w/ engine temp SOLVED (25/28)
 4/10/07 2:34pm
eddie20875Lifetime Member
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that's the first thing spal told me is why they don't recommend teflon tape, because people tend to use too much. the tech told me to use the least amount of anything to seal it. i put a very fine coat of the black pvc sealant.  good idea you had about calling dewitts as they might not realize how much they are using. everyone's intitled to goof. got my rad in and mounted and will have to do the wiring.

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puzzled w/ engine temp SOLVED (26/28)
 4/10/07 8:27pm
74stingray454
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Willow Grove, PA - USA

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eddie,  do yourself a favor and go to summitracing.com and buy one of thier wire loom kits, it make the install look very nice and professional.... kinda hides all the wires....
 
puzzled w/ engine temp SOLVED (27/28)
 4/10/07 9:17pm
eddie20875Lifetime Member
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as all the wires on the fan themselves have a plastic covering over them, i figured i would use the plastic tubing that you can get at the auto store to cover all the loose wires. thanks for the suggestion. would hate to leave it looking like a mess under the hood. wish they made something to hide all the wires behind my computerRolling%20On%20The%20Floor%20LaughingThumbs%20Up

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puzzled w/ engine temp SOLVED (28/28)
 4/11/07 7:40am
74stingray454
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Yeah, but the auto store might not have the nifty "T" fitting and end caps like that kid had.... give it a nice "finished look" and the price is nothing to sneeze at....

 
Again, just my thoughts
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