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Topic: 68 Out of the body shop and an electrical nightmare

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68 Out of the body shop and an electrical nightmare (21/31)
 11/29/10 1:09am
rlu1968
Former Member

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Gordonvillle, TX - USA

Vette(s):
1968 Roadster 427


Joined: 11/28/2003
Posts: 228

Well, I hooked up one external wire from the battery gauge to the hot on the alternator. I took the other wire and hooked it direct to the hot on the battery. I started the car, and as I was looking at the gauge I smelled burning elect wires, and then noticed the smoke coming form the console dash area. I turned the car off and started unhooking all the text wires and it  was over. The battery gauge went from center point to all the way over. Fried it and it smelled really bad. So there must be another way of checking out a amp gauge. I will order another one at $59.00 (green face) Like I said before I have two hot wires on this gauge, and I cannot understand why the guage will not work. 
 It seems like everything goes towards the horn relay, so that is my next place of adventure.


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68 Out of the body shop and an electrical nightmare (22/31)
 11/29/10 9:17am
Adams' AppleLifetime Member
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Duncanville, TX - USA

Vette(s):
#1-1974 L-48 4spd Cp Med Red Metallic/Black deluxe int w/AC/tilt/tele./p/w-p/b/ Am-Fm/map light National/Regional/Chapter NCRS "Top Flight" #2-1985 Bright Red/Carmine Cp.L-98/auto Member: NCRS, NCRS Texas, Corvette Legends of Texas


Joined: 11/8/2003
Posts: 20128

[quote=Adams' Apple]So basically, the way it should be wired is, the large red wire from the alt will go to one side of the amp gauge, and the other side of the amp gauge continues on to the battery. That's a simple explanation of how it is wired, since it is not usually a direct route from one to the other. You have a regulator and fuse box in there, too.[/quote]

I should have been more specific on that. The amp gauge also has a resistor on it, or it should have. Some are connected across the two terminals on the gauge itself, some are located externally. The black wire on the gauge comes from the horn relay, as does the black/white wire(via the regulator). BOTH have fuse-able links in them...either one should have blown before letting the smoke out of the gauge.
I've hooked many an amp gauge up directly in-line with the alternator, and never had one let go like that. I need to check the wiring diagram...


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Joel Adams
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68 Out of the body shop and an electrical nightmare (23/31)
 11/29/10 10:17am
yostusota
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York, PA - USA

Vette(s):
1969 daytona conv. all original 350 350 380 4 sp w/air..and hard top


Joined: 5/18/2010
Posts: 1518

That is to bad..one thing I have learned over the years is that there is smoke in the wires and it really gets me peod when I let it out..like Joel said a fuse able link smoked out hopefully..the other thing that I learned over the years is never test anything in the car..whether it be a power window motor or a blower motor..anything that draws heavy amps is coming out..put that power probe to work and figure it out..then collateral damage is minimal..some day I will find out how to put the smoke back in..till then ETM and be careful.
Rich


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My first parade at Carlisle 2010
68 Out of the body shop and an electrical nightmare (24/31)
 11/29/10 8:25pm
rlu1968
Former Member

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Gordonvillle, TX - USA

Vette(s):
1968 Roadster 427


Joined: 11/28/2003
Posts: 228

I think the fuseable links went many years ago and it is just direct from the horn relay amp to the gauge. So to be safe, I ordered a amp gauge and a horn relay. I will be replacing some wires in the area of the horn relay, that had old butt joints in them and are showing their age.. Any suggestion on fuseable links to use. 
When I  wired hot to both posts of the amp gauge, I just wrapped the wires around the post and they might have grounded themselves against the metal gauge housing.?? who knows, just trying to figure out why this happened. 


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68 Out of the body shop and an electrical nightmare (25/31)
 11/29/10 8:53pm
yostusota
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York, PA - USA

Vette(s):
1969 daytona conv. all original 350 350 380 4 sp w/air..and hard top


Joined: 5/18/2010
Posts: 1518

Well I see a few problems that how the smoke said hello..butt connectors work and cannot be soldered when used for high amp parts..the butt connections must be crimped complete and tightly without any movement in them..if you get the gauge out and see burn marks then it made contact with the housing..not sure if that would make a ground or not though..just another path for the power to go..as far as which fusable link to use is a tough one..I know my amp gauge goes to 40..since there is no load on this wire a 40 amp link would work..I looked in my 69-70 manual and it shows a 10 gauge wire for the gauge..I am not sure if the 68 is the same so check a ETM..but a 40 amp one is a 10 gauge if I remember right..do a voltage drop on the wires from the gauge to the relay and alternator..the power probe makes quik work of this..this of course after the wires are repaired..it will find any weak spot or broken wire..you want less than 0,02 drop..any more on these high amp wires and there is to much drop in the wire..be careful..may be a good idea to have a quick disconnect on the battery and an electrical extinguisher handy..the amp gauge isn't worth loosing a car over so don't push it to hard and take your time..
Rich

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My first parade at Carlisle 2010
68 Out of the body shop and an electrical nightmare (26/31)
 11/29/10 11:24pm
ctmccloskeyLifetime Member
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Fairfax, VA - USA

Vette(s):
1968 Corvette Roadster, 427,12.25-1 comp ratio, 582 Hp, 4 sp., 3.36, Steeroids rack and pin. pwr strg, pwr bks, serp. pulleys, 1968 (Factory) L-88 Hood, Vette Br. suspension, Both tops, MSD ign.


Joined: 8/26/2002
Posts: 38

Hello guys,
I have a 1968 Roadster which was built in early October of 1967.  The underneath part of my Dash seemed to have been all original from the day it rolled off the line when I bought it 20 years ago.  I saw no resistors on my connections going to the ammeter, there are two heavy gauge wires one going in and one going out of the guage cluster for the ammeter.  This guage is a shunt type guage which measures the current through the gauge and not using a remote shunt like auto makers did later.  Actually the idea of running full current through the wiring which is exposed to all types of hazzards in that tight area with grounds galore is why so many of the older Corvettes have torched themselves.  In many junkyards I have seen burnt C-3's and they appear to start from the dash area.  In my line of work we use lots of Current Shunts and then buy a gauge or meter that is designed to use the proper input i.e. 50mv.  With these you can put the shunt someplace handy and away from tight areas with lots of grounded sheet metal.
 
 
68 Out of the body shop and an electrical nightmare (27/31)
 11/29/10 11:34pm
ctmccloskeyLifetime Member
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Fairfax, VA - USA

Vette(s):
1968 Corvette Roadster, 427,12.25-1 comp ratio, 582 Hp, 4 sp., 3.36, Steeroids rack and pin. pwr strg, pwr bks, serp. pulleys, 1968 (Factory) L-88 Hood, Vette Br. suspension, Both tops, MSD ign.


Joined: 8/26/2002
Posts: 38

A couple more things, How much current does your alternator put out?  I have a 120 amp alternator so I do not use the Ammeter, instead I use a voltmeter which is far more useful to me anyway.
If you are using anything larger than the stock 40 amp alternator watch out!
The connectors used on the factory ammeter in my car were soldered crimped ring terminals with a heat shrink on them. I added a couple vacuum caps on the ends of the threaded terminal to be extra safe
 
1968 Corvettes were a real treat to work on as mine has many 1967 parts still in it from the factory.
 
Long live Power Probes!
 
Good luck stay stafe and enjoy the "Rodney Dangerfield" of the Corvette World.
 
Chris McCloskey
68 Out of the body shop and an electrical nightmare (28/31)
 11/30/10 4:56pm
yostusota
Former Member

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York, PA - USA

Vette(s):
1969 daytona conv. all original 350 350 380 4 sp w/air..and hard top


Joined: 5/18/2010
Posts: 1518

You know Chris you may have hit on something there..if the new alternator puts out more than what the gauge can handle it may have burned up a long time ago..I have an internal alternator and will be putting in a volt gauge this winter..don't like all them amps running thru there!!
Rich
 


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My first parade at Carlisle 2010
68 Out of the body shop and an electrical nightmare (29/31)
 11/30/10 10:35pm
rlu1968
Former Member

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Gordonvillle, TX - USA

Vette(s):
1968 Roadster 427


Joined: 11/28/2003
Posts: 228

I was thinking that I just put in an alternator for the 68 year. however I have discovered that it can be anywhere from 38 amp to 60 amps. depending on AC and other. I will check this out once I get the parts in that I have ordered to put the horn relay in and the new amp gauge. Plus doing some work on the wireing. I really don't understand the fuseable links that corvette put in the wires off the horn relay and starter etc. seems like they just put in a small wire spliced into the 20 guage wire so something would give with an overload.  It wasn't like a fuse itself. So how do I go back and protect these wires if the fuseable links are gone. Maybe just add a circuit breaker or fuse to keep this from happening again. 
 So if I later added a fan kit, then it woud take more amps thus the gauge would not work. There is not a voltmeter (that I know of )to put in the place of the battery amp gauge with green letters??  So the gauges look correct. Any Ideas on this???????


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68 Out of the body shop and an electrical nightmare (30/31)
 11/30/10 10:49pm
yostusota
Former Member

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York, PA - USA

Vette(s):
1969 daytona conv. all original 350 350 380 4 sp w/air..and hard top


Joined: 5/18/2010
Posts: 1518

Well to answer the fuse able link question is that it is a wire and not a fuse in a glass tube with a wire thru the middle..the fuse able link looks like and acts like a regular piece of wire untill the amps get to high for what it is rated for then the wire actually melts inside..sometimes you won't even know it..the first thing I do is grab the link and pull on it if it comes apart it's burned up..they are usually at big amp spots like at the starter..it feeds the fuse box..don't use a circuit breaker instead..if you have a short the breaker will catch it then turn it back on again once it cools off..it's like flipping a light switch..not good..you can still get fuse able links..use a quality crimp tool and splice in with the new one..do not solder them..shrink wrap works though..
Rich
 


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My first parade at Carlisle 2010
68 Out of the body shop and an electrical nightmare (31/31)
 12/1/10 12:03am
rlu1968
Former Member

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Gordonvillle, TX - USA

Vette(s):
1968 Roadster 427


Joined: 11/28/2003
Posts: 228

That is very good info.  Never realized this is how the fuseable link worked, that it was in a glass tube. I guess after 42 years most of this is gone. Where would you find a fuseable link to put  back in the wiring system.  i don't recall seeing any of this in the many catalogs I have.  
  Oh and by the way what about the solder in the smaller wires with shrink wrap over them. I have tried this instead of the butt connections.  But I have a hard time getting the solder to stick
 Is there any special solder that works better than others.


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