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Topic: Cross Fire Injection- Bad Idle

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Cross Fire Injection- Bad Idle (1/29)
 6/16/08 9:38pm
dwright
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Victor, NY - USA

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2004 Commemorative Edition Coupe, Auto w/HUD. 13K miles in 2015. Sold 1982 Red Coupe


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I have had this problem since I bought the car 4 years ago, but never this bad.
 
On a cold start, the engine will rev up to 1000, then back down to 400-500, then back up and down several times before it settles out at 800 RPM. It takes about 10 seconds to do that.
 
After that, it always ran fine.
 
When I was at Fort Wayne, IN, it was a violent cycle between 1200 and 400, then it would stall. Start it up again and the only way to keep it from stalling was to press on the accelerator.
 
Once I got rolling, it would be better.
 
I just tried it in the garage, and it was better (milder oscillations), but still stalled.
 
Here is a video of the engine cold start. I did not touch the accelerator.
 
 
I took the air filters off and watched the injectors. They looked OK, but the RPM still was going up and down.
 
What should I try first?


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Cross Fire Injection- Bad Idle (2/29)
 6/16/08 9:56pm
VetteSpecialties
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The most obvious things to check are the fuel pump and  injectors, the fuel pressure regulator, vacuum leaks.  And the next is the fuel return line.  I have seen cars with that return line plugged, and it makes for all sorts of annoying problems.  Another possibility is the Throttle Position Sensor. 

Some more obscure ideas:  a leak where the two halves of the unit mate, or worn throttle shafts, coolant temp sensor,.

Corvette Fever mag had an article about tuning the Crossfire.  I found it online at: http://www.corvettefever.com/techarticles/4688_chevrolet_corvette_efi_system_tuning/index.html


Good luck

Larry
Cross Fire Injection- Bad Idle (3/29)
 6/16/08 10:15pm
kstyerLifetime Member
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When all tune up items are okay and there is no vacuum leaks the throttle bodies are out of adjustment.  Don't forget the PCV valve, use an AC delco valve, NOT and aftermarket.  These are very touchy.
 
First, clean all the idle passages and the idle controller.   Then open the throttle plates, engine off, and clean the back of the throttle plates and the throttle bores.
 
Start the engine and find the intake port for the idle controller.  Warm the engine, and plug the idle intake.   Install a vacuum gauge to the port on top of each throttle body.   Better yet use a mamometer connected to both of them. 
 
Turn the throttle screws, which may or may not be under sealed plugs.  (they were when new, but maybe not now)  Turn one of the screws until the vacuum balances between the two units.  Now adjust both equally, until you hit the minimum air rpm setting, usually around 450 or 500, but look it up.   Be sure the vacuum is still balanced.  Remove the plug from the idle intake port, and allow it to stablize.
 
It should idle fine now.
Cross Fire Injection- Bad Idle (4/29)
 6/17/08 5:45am
dwright
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Victor, NY - USA

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The injectors looked fine.
How do I check for vacuum leaks at the throttle bodies?
 
I have a Hypertech chip in the computer. It says to remove it and put the standard chip in when tuning the engine. Is that necessary when balancing the throttle bodies?
 
I need a picture of the throttle bodies to locate the idle passage, idle controller, intake port, idle intake, throttle screws, etc.


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Cross Fire Injection- Bad Idle (5/29)
 6/17/08 7:50am
crossfire1982
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Dave, you have a PM
Cross Fire Injection- Bad Idle (6/29)
 6/17/08 8:49am
DaveMLifetime Member
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Dave, do you have the '82 service manual? It has pretty good instructions with lots of pictures on the Injection system.
Dave


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Cross Fire Injection- Bad Idle (7/29)
 6/19/08 7:16pm
82delight
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When my X-Fire refused to idle, the fix was to reseat the prom in the computer seat.  Maybe I had a bad contact at a pin.  I haven't had a single episode of poor idle or cease-fire ever since I did that, two years ago.
Cross Fire Injection- Bad Idle (8/29)
 6/19/08 7:32pm
kstyerLifetime Member
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To balance the throttle bodies, you won't need to reinstall the original chips.   I don't have a picture, but if you take one and post it, I will grab it, apply the proper arrows, and repost with the information.
Cross Fire Injection- Bad Idle (9/29)
 6/20/08 3:37pm
82RedRedVette
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With all the sensors being up to spec and running as they should, make sure the front trottle body isn't resting on the idle stop before the rear throttle body does. They should both be resting on the respective stops at the same time. The main reason being important is that the front throttle plate will be closed and the rear will be slightly open. Then the idle control motor can't react fast enough to adjust air, hence the up and down rpm until it stalls. My CF did this and I found the long linkage rod from the front TB causes the bracket connecting it to the rear TB to bend. Try holding the rear TB still at idle and put forward pressure on the front linkage rod and see if it doesn't smooth out! If it does, take a pair of pliers to the bracket holding both linkage rods (looks like a "C" shape) and slightly bend it forward. Over the years of motion, the front rod puts so much pressure on the bracket causing it to bend. TB's won't be out of sink unless modified or removed. In that case, they have to be timed together. 

Hope this helps... otherwise send a PM to CorvetteClinic@C3VRMail.com
Cross Fire Injection- Bad Idle (10/29)
 6/20/08 7:13pm
VetteSpecialties
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The question was asked somewhere above about how to find a vacuum leak.  Another of my "Old Guy" easy tricks is to let the engine idle, and spray suspect areas with starter fluid or Gumout spray.  If you hit a leak, the engine will rev for a second.

Larry
Cross Fire Injection- Bad Idle (11/29)
 6/20/08 9:53pm
kstyerLifetime Member
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That old guy tip can also use carb cleaner, or propane with a hose on the bottle.
Cross Fire Injection- Bad Idle (12/29)
 6/21/08 1:07pm
VetteCountryLifetime Member
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Hi Dave, just received Corvette Enthusiast. Chris Petris has a article on Cross-Fire injection that might help. He also has a web site, www.corvetteclinicinc.com. Hope this helps! Dick
Cross Fire Injection- Bad Idle (13/29)
 6/22/08 10:00pm
dwright
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Victor, NY - USA

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I just got back from North Conway, NH. Great trip and the car ran OK. Still has the idle problem, but not as bad as last weekend.
I put a bottle of injector cleaner in with the first fill-up. I don't think it did anything.
I can rule out bad gas because I have filled it three times this weekend and the problem is still there.
I still think it might be the fron injector because I saw it sputtering.
DaveM is going to send me information on replacing the seals and gaskets and he already gave me a complete set, so that will be next.
 
Thanks for all the advise.


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Cross Fire Injection- Bad Idle (14/29)
 6/22/08 10:28pm
kstyerLifetime Member
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Dave, bring the gaskets on the next trip though Cuyahoga Falls.  Let me know so we can schedule around my jobs.   It will be a happy camper when you leave.
Cross Fire Injection- Bad Idle (15/29)
 6/23/08 12:22pm
dwright
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Victor, NY - USA

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Ken,
Thanks for the offer, but that might not be until October.


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Cross Fire Injection- Bad Idle (16/29)
 6/23/08 1:18pm
6880Mike
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Good article in the current issue of Corvette Enthusiast Magazine regarding the Crossfire.  Tells you where to look for common problems and how to fix them.
 
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Cross Fire Injection- Bad Idle (17/29)
 6/23/08 1:48pm
crossfire1982
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Cramerton, NC - USA

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Can't find Corvette Enthusiast magazine at any of my local bookstores.  I'd love to have a copy of the crossfire troubleshooting article that VetteCountry is speaking of.  If anyone could xerox,  I'd certainly be glad to cover any expenses.
Cross Fire Injection- Bad Idle (18/29)
 6/30/08 10:35pm
mitch
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Dave i have same problem with mine. Its back to the shop tomorrow . If they find out what it is .I'll make Huss691981 post it .
Cross Fire Injection- Bad Idle (19/29)
 7/1/08 9:52am
6880Mike
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[QUOTE=Crossfire1982]...Can't find Corvette Enthusiast magazine at any of my local bookstores...[/QUOTE]
 
 
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Cross Fire Injection- Bad Idle (20/29)
 7/1/08 6:19pm
jbs82vette
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pm sentSmile
Cross Fire Injection- Bad Idle (21/29)
 8/10/08 10:54pm
mitch
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Dave I told you as soon as I got my car running right I'd let you know what they did.  We went through all the  things above .What it turned out  to be was adjusting idle  - tect drive and accel ignition module .I've driven it for two weeks  and it seems to have fixed  it.
P.S. oh yea and $400.00 too.
Cross Fire Injection- Bad Idle (22/29)
 8/11/08 8:34pm
82delight
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Hey guys,
 
Here's my experience with both "cease-fire" and another symptom, no idle:
 
I was experiencing bouts of "cease-fire," leaving me on the road dead even from the hammer lane.  I bought another computer, but it came without the prom, so I swapped the prom into the new computer.  Everything was good until one day it wouldn't idle.  I had to keep pumping the pedal at lights in neutral all the way home.  After making certain of the symptom, I reasoned that it was the computer's fault once again.  Having no thrid computer, I put the oiginal one back in.  I haven't had a problem, even a hiccup ever since. 
 
I believe that by moving the prom from one socket to another I inadvertantly made better contact for some critical pin or another.  I cleaned the socket with contact cleaner while it was on the bench, but I am now thinking that "cease-fire" is the result of perhaps a bad contact between the socket and the +5volt pin or the ground pin on the prom, and the no-idle bug was the result of a bad contact for the idle circuit, if there is such a thing.
 
That's my story and I'm stickin to it.
 
Steve
Cross Fire Injection- Bad Idle (23/29)
 8/11/08 11:49pm
DaveMLifetime Member
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You guys keep making me happy about getting rid of my Cross-Fire. But I do feel bad for you guys, beleave me I know what your going thru.
Dave


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Cross Fire Injection- Bad Idle (24/29)
 9/24/09 8:31am
dwright
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Victor, NY - USA

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This may be the final post on this chapter.
Many times we blame the CFI when it has nothing to do with it.
When I was at Bowling Green, KY for the NCM Caravan, I had more problems. The engine would die while coasting down a hill (at 65mph) or sometimes when I was stopped at a light.
After much discussion I decided to put in a new fuel pump. Got one at Advance Auto, took it back to the motel, pulled out the old one and put in the new one, with a new strainer on the end.
Ran much better.
It did quit on me one time at a light, but not since then.
Knock on wood, but she has never run better since I bought it 5 years ago.
Wish me good luck.


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Cross Fire Injection- Bad Idle (25/29)
 9/24/09 12:50pm
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Did ya change the fuel filter at the same time? If not, ya might wanna do that...
Glas ya did something that made it better, anyway...
Adams' Apple2009-09-24 09:50:53

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Cross Fire Injection- Bad Idle (26/29)
 9/24/09 2:59pm
dwright
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Not yet. I bought one the same day, but wanted to do it one step at a time.
Before I put her to bed for the winter, I'll do it.


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Cross Fire Injection- Bad Idle (27/29)
 10/9/09 1:38pm
dwright
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Victor, NY - USA

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I knew I shuda knocked on wood. My problem is back.
Coasting down a hill she died.
Stopped at a light, she died.
Sitting in bumper to bumper traffic, she died.
Almost always started right up again.
But a couple of time it was as if I had no connection to the starter motor.
I may have two different problems. One being feul delivery and the other electrical.
I did replace the fuel filter yesterday, but I have not had her out on the road yet.
I don't think there was anything wrong with the filter that I took out.
I'll get to the root problem sometime.


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Cross Fire Injection- Bad Idle (28/29)
 10/9/09 1:51pm
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You MAY have either a fuse-link by the starter that is failing, or a loose connection at the starter...that could cause ALL of the symptoms....
I had a similar problem a few years ago on my 'Burban. It actually stranded us in Arkansas once. Eventually(a few months later...I'm lazy...), I found the problem was a fuse link by the starter. It looked OK, but tugging on the wire showed it would stretch...not a good thing! I simply cut the link out and butt-connected it back together to get me home that day. Been like that ever since, and the truck has not died or failed to start since then.
Adams' Apple2009-10-09 10:51:56

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Cross Fire Injection- Bad Idle (29/29)
 10/9/09 8:16pm
RedwingvetteLifetime Member
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Dave, sorry to here you are still chasing the problem. It does sound to me more like an electrical issue then a fuel issue.
Good luck with it.


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