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Topic: It's a Sad Day in HooVille

in Forum: C3 Engines

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It's a Sad Day in HooVille (1/20)
7/14/10 9:32am

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Port Orchard, WA - USA

Vette(s):
1978 Indy Pace Car 4851 of 6502, Auto, L-48

Joined: 6/20/2005
Posts: 4066

Well here's the bad news Cry

Cry

I took my Pacer down to her family doctor (Mark) at Titus-Will Chevrolet in Olympia for a tune-up and inspection yesterday before the trip to Bend. Mark is one of the best Corvette only Tech's in Western Washington and I trust him to be totally correct with anything that he says about my baby. The Pacer had been increasingly running rougher and rougher every time I took her out. I thought I had a clogged fuelline or filter. Mark did a complete tune-up, replaced all filter, found and stopped my oil leak at the oil sending unit but he could not get the car to run right. He did say several plugs were oil fouled. He pulled the valve covers off because cylinder #2 had low compression (I'm no mechanic so bare with me) and found several problems. Once the covers were off he found that the exhaust valves on multiple cylinders were not moving and I'm not really sure what it means but the cam is flat Cry

Cry

He said to drive this car to Bend, OR could possibly be the end of the numbers matching engine. With 106k miles under her tires, it looks like I'm looking at a total rebuild on my engine Pinch

Pinch

Now here's the good news, I'll be driving my 2007 Official NW C3VR Convoy Support Truck (Avalanche) full of tools, extra water, oil, and anything else I can throw in the back Clap

Clap

That's all I've got for now, more news to follow. See you in Bend Thumbs Up

Thumbs Up

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MARK
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It's a Sad Day in HooVille (2/20)
7/14/10 10:28am

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Flanders, NJ - USA

Vette(s):
1982 Black, ZZ4, Hooker Side Pipes, 3.55 Rear, Rebuilt & upgraded 700R4, All new suspension, brakes, & new Charcoal interior.

Joined: 1/27/2004
Posts: 2552

Sorry about the engine problems, hope she will be back better than ever real soon. Just think it will be running as good as it looks. Cool

Cool

In the mean time have fun with the rest of the gang Party

Party

Beer

Dave

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It's a Sad Day in HooVille (3/20)
7/14/10 10:39am

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Eagleville, PA - USA

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Used to own a 1979 Corvette now owned by JB79

Joined: 11/1/2001
Posts: 17642

At least you'll still be at the gathering! Sorry about the motor. But I guess in the end, you'll have a better running engine!

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It's a Sad Day in HooVille (4/20)
7/14/10 11:36am

BillinNashville
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Vette(s):
1974 coupe. 350 CID with Turbo 400 trans. Decal says 8.5:1 compression. Needs paint and AC replaced but don't plan on full restoration. Car runs strong. No big problems so far. 67,000 miles on Odometer, probably rolled over

Joined: 7/3/2010
Posts: 65

Sorry to hear that. It seems the motors in older cars didn't last as long. I wonder why that is?
Just a note. The previous owner of my 74 had the motor rebuilt. They "decked" the block. Unfortunately they machined the serial number off as well. They didn't, either protect that area, or they didn't restamp the numbers in.
He claimed it was the original engine but there's no way to know now. My casting numbers are right but that doesn't mean much.
Good luck on your rebuild.

______________
It has been over a year since I started. I had to quit the project so the car just sat in the garage. I was able to get started again in May 2012. As of July 27 2012 I have done the fiberglass repairs and applied Slick Sand High Build Primer.

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It's a Sad Day in HooVille (5/20)
7/14/10 12:09pm

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Holland Patent, NY - USA

Vette(s):
#1 *1980 White, Red interior 14,000 mile #2 *1980 Red, Oyster interior 93,000 miles Resto project car, rebuilt to 383 stroker

Joined: 6/3/2008
Posts: 4421

Ouch Shocked

Well it's better found now then have it spit it's guts, plus if it happened a long way from home.....

Good move to have it serviced before the trip and great call by the tech. He saved you a bunch of money.....don't know if that makes you feel better. But once that baby makes it to the Islands it will be in purrrrrfect condition.

Heh you have over come bigger piles of poop than this. Clap

Clap

Enjoy Bend!

Evil Smile

ebo

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It's a Sad Day in HooVille (6/20)
7/14/10 12:23pm

philip
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Marana, AZ - USA

Vette(s):
1982 Silver Blue

Joined: 4/8/2010
Posts: 104

Cams in older engines will continue to go flat due to the reformulation of oil. ZDDP an essential additive to protect metal to metal contact areas has been removed from the current easily available oils. It is not needed in the roller cam engines and was shown to reduce the life of catalytic convertors. There are oils that still have the ZDDP in quantities great enough to protect the flat tappet camshafts. They are listed as "off road oils" and are not available at most chain stores. I use Brad Penn oil for a number of reasons. One of which is the high ZDDP content and the other it is US crude from wells in PA, refined in PA and packaged in PA all by the same company which insures that what they say is in the bottle is really there. There are also additives that can be added to present oils if you have a brand you would like to continue to use.

The cam in my 82 was replaced at 73k miles, last year. Often times the metal from the lobes that is pumped through the engine causes other damage, mainly to the bearing surfaces. Having a complete overhaul is the best route to take.

It's a Sad Day in HooVille (7/20)
7/14/10 12:46pm

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Ash Fork, AZ - USA

Vette(s):
1981 Red Interior White exterior

Joined: 4/18/2007
Posts: 1053

phillip, My engine builder told me the same thing about the additives. From what he mentioned there is a huge on-going class action suit due to the damage being done to the additives being removed without notifying customers. Haven't checked into that, I'm sure when it's settled 30 or 40 yrs from now, I'll qualify for $1.27 in restitution phew

phew

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Dave C..........My mantra: I can not be bought!! Long and short term leases available.

In the words of Zora Arkus-Duntov "Is your seat belt fastened? Alright, Let's go"

Yeah, I know, Shut up Dave.

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It's a Sad Day in HooVille (8/20)
7/14/10 1:03pm

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Duncanville, TX - USA

Vette(s):
#1-1974 L-48 4spd Cp Med Red Metallic/Black deluxe int w/AC/tilt/tele./p/w-p/b/ Am-Fm/map light National/Regional/Chapter NCRS "Top Flight" #2-1985 Bright Red/Carmine Cp.L-98/auto Member: NCRS, NCRS Texas, Corvette Legends of Texas

Joined: 11/8/2003
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I'll add to what Phillip said with this...I can't count how many cams I have replaced in '78 Chevies over the years, some with VERY low miles(20,000 or so). I firmly believe GM had a problem with the suppliers for those cams, or at least a "batch" of them. It appears they just weren't hardened correctly, and wore the lobes extremely quick.
On a brighter note, if the cam has gone flat, it doesn't mean a complete re-build, unless you would just rather go ahead and get it done. Replacing the cam and lifters, along with a good engine flush would get ya back on the road. Like I said...I've done plenty of that same deal back in the late '70s early '80s. New cam/lifters, and engine flush had them all back up and running for a long time.

Good Luck with it, anyway, and sorry it happened at this particular time. Better now than later, on the road to the Gathering....we'd never let ya forget about it if it had happened then!

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Joel Adams
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It's a Sad Day in HooVille (9/20)
7/14/10 3:20pm

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COPPERAS COVE, TX - USA

Vette(s):
1972 corvette stingray convertible 2007 coupe

Joined: 7/6/2002
Posts: 417

Those cams Joel was refering to were Hecto in Mexico, the two center lobes were effected,one on each side of the center bearing if I remember right. It had to do with the heat treating of that center part or something like that

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It's a Sad Day in HooVille (10/20)
7/14/10 8:18pm

turbo78vair
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Franklin, IN - USA

Vette(s):
1978 pace car replica

Joined: 5/3/2008
Posts: 117

Mark, sorry about the repairs, but better at home than on the trip. I have some concern with our PC and it's 165k miles. Especially not knowing anything about it's history or repairs.

Take care and have fun with the group this weekend.

GaryC - '78PC Replica - Franklin, IN

It's a Sad Day in HooVille (11/20)
7/14/10 11:40pm

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CUYAHOGA FALLS, OH - USA

Vette(s):
1975 C3 Red, T-Tops, Black Interior. All I need is time and money! Getting there!

Joined: 12/2/2003
Posts: 6424

Joel is correct. I have replaced many of them myself. Not just in the 350, but the 305 and the V6 engines (229, 200) as well. And yes, if you flush the engine well, installing the new cam provides long term operation, without a full engine rebuild. This is provided of course that you have used a good, or at least a decent, oil filter.

There a few motor oils left that still have enough ZDDP to do the job. Many do not. But a bit of engine assembly lube in with your oil will do the job. You don't need exotic or expensive additives. 4 oz is all that is needed. Overdoing it could actually cause other problems.

It's a Sad Day in HooVille (12/20)
7/14/10 11:54pm

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North Charleston, SC - USA

Vette(s):
1975 L48 AT AC T-top

Joined: 3/20/2004
Posts: 4176

Sorry to hear that news but better to find out before getting on the road. I agree with Joel on the cam/lifter replacement.

Scott

It's a Sad Day in HooVille (13/20)
7/15/10 4:38am

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Indianapolis, IN - USA

Vette(s):
Silver 1974 Convertible - L82 4 speed Low miles (was only 8,900 when I bought it in March 2006) - Now 54K miles. Original owner bought it as an investment for son's college expenses. 2008 Jetstream Blue Convertible

Joined: 9/3/2006
Posts: 2418

Mark, sorry to hear about this being discovered now (just before the gathering). But like everyone else, I'm glad to hear about this being discovered now (before you were on the road to the gathering).

I do love your positive attitude and for volunteering to be the official support vehicle of the gathering (at least it's a chevy!)

Good luck and have fun!

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It's a Sad Day in HooVille (14/20)
7/15/10 6:31pm

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Greensburg, IN - USA

Vette(s):
Previous: 1984 Silver / Charcoal Coupe, 1988 Maroon Coupe / 1989 Artic White Coupe / 2001 Speedway White Roadster / Present:1976 Stingray Black / Black, Auto, 350 slightly modified (355 hp) Luxor Wires Redline Tires. / 1989 Roadster Bright Red...

Joined: 9/24/2003
Posts: 5188

I sure am glad that Joel & Ken mentioned you do not have to do a total rebuild. If you have a few "motorhead" buddies you can replace the cam in an afternoon.

Shucks....

It probally takes more time to pull the radiator out than most of the other stuff involved.

Besides, now you can add a little more ummph to the Pacer and go undetechtable. Only you and yer closest C3VR Buds will ever know.....

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It's a Sad Day in HooVille (15/20)
7/18/10 8:21pm

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Port Orchard, WA - USA

Vette(s):
1978 Indy Pace Car 4851 of 6502, Auto, L-48

Joined: 6/20/2005
Posts: 4066

Thanks everyone for the great words of wisdom, especially Joel & Ken. You all are great Clap

Clap

Since I have not hit the lottery yet I don't think i'm going to do a total rebuild. I'll just get the cam replaced, lifters done, and of course a good ole flush for the engine. That will save me a lot of $$$.

The trip went off without a hitch, the 3 tool boxes, water, oil, and everything else I brought along just incase never even came out of the back of the truck. Everyones Vettes ran like charms.

Thanks again, that was a great lesson on additives also Thumbs Up

Thumbs Up

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MARK
LIFETIME MEMBER #117

Click here to see my new friend P-Racer
"Keep up the Pace"

It's a Sad Day in HooVille (16/20)
7/19/10 5:17am

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Indianapolis, IN - USA

Vette(s):
Silver 1974 Convertible - L82 4 speed Low miles (was only 8,900 when I bought it in March 2006) - Now 54K miles. Original owner bought it as an investment for son's college expenses. 2008 Jetstream Blue Convertible

Joined: 9/3/2006
Posts: 2418

Wiat a minute! A gathering without breakdowns? No emergency calls to Joel?

Sounds like everybody in Bend missed out on the full experience! LOL Glad to hear things went well. Good luck on the engine work Mark.

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It's a Sad Day in HooVille (17/20)
7/20/10 1:56am

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Port Orchard, WA - USA

Vette(s):
1978 Indy Pace Car 4851 of 6502, Auto, L-48

Joined: 6/20/2005
Posts: 4066

That's right I didn't even have to pull out the jumper cables or anything else, and the only thing I needed water for was all the over-heated people LOL

LOL

Oh ya, I'VE GOT WATER !!! ANYONE NEED WATER?

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MARK
LIFETIME MEMBER #117

Click here to see my new friend P-Racer
"Keep up the Pace"

It's a Sad Day in HooVille (18/20)
7/21/10 11:48pm

dwright
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Victor, NY - USA

Vette(s):
2004 Commemorative Edition Coupe, Auto w/HUD. 13K miles in 2015. Sold 1982 Red Coupe

Joined: 7/12/2004
Posts: 6836

On the subject matter, my cam was replaced at 60,000 miles by a previous owner. I was told that GM had a bunch of "soft" cams.

On the off topic, my speedometer stopped working on Wednesday morning on the way to Bend, OR. No speedo = no cruise.

So Mike Dunn recommended a shop. We took it over there Friday morning and it was all fixed by 5:00 PM. Thanks Mike.

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It's a Sad Day in HooVille (19/20)
7/24/10 9:05am

sfindlan
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Badin Lake, NC - USA

Vette(s):
1979 Red L-48 Corvette with Doeskin interior, 3-speed automatic, 3.55 rear; 1986 L-98 Coupe, 4+3 Manual - Satin Black and Purple (SCCA TT/Hillclimb Car); 1993 White LT-1 Coupe, Black Interior, 6-speed

Joined: 4/21/2004
Posts: 101

A bit more on the oil discussion. There are a number of motor oils available that have the good additives, and as one of the writers noted, they state "for off road use" or "not for street applications". One that I use is a Valvoline Synpower racing oil (which is how many are sold). Believe it or not, I have found this at Advance auto.

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C3: 1979 Corvette Coupe, Auto, L-48, Red/Doeskin (my wife's fave);

C4s: 1986 C4 coupe (SCCA road race car), satin black, 4+3, Z51 package, L-98; & 1993 C4 coupe, white, 6-speed, LT-1.

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It's a Sad Day in HooVille (20/20)
7/24/10 10:56pm

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North Charleston, SC - USA

Vette(s):
1975 L48 AT AC T-top

Joined: 3/20/2004
Posts: 4176

Man, that great news to hear that no one had a breakdown during the outing. Everyone must be doing there routine maintenance. Good job all!

Scott

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