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Topic: While I've Got That Apart - PROJECT COMPLETE

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While I've Got That Apart - PROJECT COMPLETE (1/23)
 6/2/15 4:14pm
Vman73
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Gig Harbor, WA - USA

Vette(s):
1973 L82 4 Speed Coupe - Very original, well documented driver/survivor. 2016 Bend Regional NCRS Top Flight.


Joined: 10/2/2014
Posts: 405

So I'm about to embark on one of my favorite journeys, something I'm sure we've all done at some point on these cars - the classic "While I've Got That Apart".

I need to order a correct set of radiator/heater hoses from Blair's so I can put my rebuilt original water pump back on my '73. Picturing this process in my mind, I immediately see the timing chain cover right behind the WP. Even with only 66k miles on the engine, I know what the 43 year old plastic coated cam gear is going to look like, so add new timing chain and gears to the list. Got to pull the damper, so might as well make sure it's aligned where it's supposed to be and still in good shape.

In order to properly change the timing gear cover and take care of some of those little "drips" on the floor, remove/replace the oil pan gasket and rear main seal. Gee, while the oil pan is off, check the pick up tube, screen and oil pump. While I'm under there, get the correct GM plug wires properly routed through the motor mounts and do some more cleaning. Might as well replace the mounts since they're also caked with 43 years worth of grime and oil.

Then there's the last drip, non motor related (other than me), rebuild the power steering valve. I rebuilt the power steering ram last year, now the valve is leaking. 

So does this cover it all or is there something I'm missing ?? I'd like to stop somewhere before the rear license plate, LOL !!

Correct radiator/heater hoses
Timing chain cover gasket and seal
Timing chain and gear set (true roller ?)
Oil pan gasket (single pc.), new rear main seal (two pc.)
Oil pump and that plastic connector thingy
Correct plug wires
New motor mounts
PS valve rebuild kit

Been a while since I've gone down this path, looking for anyone who's got the hot tip on the latest parts or 
'how to's" to make a return from this journey as smooth as possible. I would also like to complete all tasks with the folks at NCRS in mind.

Thanks in advance for any input !!
 





|UPDATED|6/2/2015 1:14:36 PM (AZT)|/UPDATED|


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Re: While I've Got That Apart (2/23)
 4/14/15 4:14pm
danascar
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Germansville, PA - USA

Vette(s):
1974 Coupe 358ci 4 speed Black w/Medium Saddle interior w/79 custom leather seats. . 1999 C5 Convertible, 6 speed, Atomic orange, Oak interior.


Joined: 1/28/2010
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Couple of quick things come to mind to check in the same area are the fuel pump, lines and filters. Look real close at the rubber in the damper, any dry rot get rid of it. Also the rad hoses, much easier to replace with front engine parts out of the way, this is all assuming you haven't already done them.

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DanT

Re: While I've Got That Apart (3/23)
 4/14/15 4:42pm
indy99
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Newport, MI - USA

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1980 L-48 still in the middle of a frame-off.


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since you are about halfway there..... just do a frame off and get it all done.LOL

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Re: While I've Got That Apart (4/23)
 4/14/15 11:24pm
F4GaryGold Member
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Grapevine, TX - USA

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1972 LT-1 convertible with factory air.


Joined: 8/26/2006
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May as well just pull the motor...

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Re: While I've Got That Apart (5/23)
 4/15/15 7:52am
manchestersharkLifetime Member
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Equinunk, PA - USA

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1972 conv, 4-speed, 350, 200hp, numbers match, rally wheels, war bonnett yellow w/white top. good condition, nice driver.


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Posts: 2382

Thumbs Up  I TOTALLY agree with the last two posts!  Go for broke. You'll not have to do things twice.

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Re: While I've Got That Apart (6/23)
 4/15/15 1:00pm
Adams' AppleLifetime Member
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Duncanville, TX - USA

Vette(s):
#1-1974 L-48 4spd Cp Med Red Metallic/Black deluxe int w/AC/tilt/tele./p/w-p/b/ Am-Fm/map light National/Regional/Chapter NCRS "Top Flight" #2-1985 Bright Red/Carmine Cp.L-98/auto Member: NCRS, NCRS Texas, Corvette Legends of Texas


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Don't even bother replacing the timing chain unless you go with a true double roller set up. Gears and chain. Not worth the effort otherwise, imho. You can get the sets just about anywhere(NAPA, Autozone, etc), but get a name brand, not a plain brown wrapper set. Thumbs Up

Have fun doing the rear main seals. The trick to doing those and them NOT leaking is to off-set the ends of the seals. If you install the seals with the split on the same plane as the rear main cap/block, the seals WILL leak. Don't let anyone tell ya it won't.

Check the hub on the harmonic balancer closely for a groove, right where the front seal rides. If it is grooved, you'll either need to replace the balancer, or get a stainless sleeve to install over the hub.

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Re: While I've Got That Apart (7/23)
 4/15/15 6:35pm
Vman73
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Gig Harbor, WA - USA

Vette(s):
1973 L82 4 Speed Coupe - Very original, well documented driver/survivor. 2016 Bend Regional NCRS Top Flight.


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Thanks for the input, offsetting the seal makes perfect sense. I'll also get the timing cover gasket set that includes the balancer sleeve if I need it. My biggest concern is that the balancer has moved or the rubber liner is toast. Do anybody still rebuild those things ??

I added fuel pump to the list, rubber hoses already replaced. I think it's still the original pump, I'll take it down if only to clean it up decently.

Spoke with Brian and parts from Bair's are on order, now to find a decent local timing chain set and all of the gaskets. I'll update my original post with P/N's for future reference. 

Sorry, no frame off or motor pull this time around !! 

Let me know if anyone thinks of anything else.


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Re: While I've Got That Apart (8/23)
 4/16/15 1:20pm
Adams' AppleLifetime Member
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Duncanville, TX - USA

Vette(s):
#1-1974 L-48 4spd Cp Med Red Metallic/Black deluxe int w/AC/tilt/tele./p/w-p/b/ Am-Fm/map light National/Regional/Chapter NCRS "Top Flight" #2-1985 Bright Red/Carmine Cp.L-98/auto Member: NCRS, NCRS Texas, Corvette Legends of Texas


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 You do know the "While I'm There" virus is incurable, don't you, John?

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Joel Adams
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Re: While I've Got That Apart (9/23)
 4/16/15 3:36pm
Vman73
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Gig Harbor, WA - USA

Vette(s):
1973 L82 4 Speed Coupe - Very original, well documented driver/survivor. 2016 Bend Regional NCRS Top Flight.


Joined: 10/2/2014
Posts: 405

Adams' Apple said:  You do know the "While I'm There" virus is incurable, don't you, John?

Hey Joel - incurable virus, addiction, OCD and a few other terms come to mind. The good news is my wife knows what I'm spending my time and money on, and she's all good with that !!

Spent some time yesterday looking for a timing chain set and the rest of the stuff at my local parts stores, that turned out to be a waste of time. Three stores, only two could figure out what I was looking for and both could only get half of what I needed - shocking !! 

Ended up ordering everything I needed from Summit Racing online about midnight last night. Everything in stock, should be here by Tuesday.

I ended up going with a Comp Cams 3100, the latest Fel-Pro gaskets and seals, Sealed Power HV oil pump and new pick up. All in with free shipping $158.00 !! The rest of the stuff is coming from Bair's (at about twice that price) and I'm ready to roll. 

I'm going to try and keep the blinders on while I'm under there, but you know how that goes. I'll post pics and commentary as soon as the project begins.     



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Re: While I've Got That Apart (10/23)
 4/17/15 11:46am
dwa175
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leesburg, FL - USA

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1979 coupe and now 2007 c-6


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hello   I understand but your the only one that can put stop sign very hard to do .if you keep going there is no end    do what you what to do  must stop somewere.   most its time or money.  have a good time dwa
Re: While I've Got That Apart (11/23)
 4/17/15 12:58pm
Adams' AppleLifetime Member
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Duncanville, TX - USA

Vette(s):
#1-1974 L-48 4spd Cp Med Red Metallic/Black deluxe int w/AC/tilt/tele./p/w-p/b/ Am-Fm/map light National/Regional/Chapter NCRS "Top Flight" #2-1985 Bright Red/Carmine Cp.L-98/auto Member: NCRS, NCRS Texas, Corvette Legends of Texas


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When you get the new oil pump, remove the bottom plate, and flat sand it, to make SURE it is perfectly flat. Do the same with the bottom of the pump itself. You'd be surprised at how many are warped beyond recognition. Then put a small amount of a light grease(lubriplate works well) on the pump gears, inside the pump housing, and on the bottom plate before re-assembling it. This will ensure the pump will pick up oil instantly when you first fire it up, as well as provide some lubrication to an otherwise DRY oil pump, on start-up. Thumbs Up

If you want to verify the outer ring on the balancer, get the #1 piston up on Top Dead Center on the compression stroke, and check the marks. The groove/line on the balancer should be aligned EXACTLY on the "0", or "V" on the timing tab. If it's just a wee bit off, it could simply be the tab is bent, or something like that. If it is off more than a few degrees, the outer ring has moved. Of course, if the rubber is cracked all to hades, you should go ahead and replace it..."while you're there". Wink

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Re: While I've Got That Apart (12/23)
 4/17/15 2:58pm
Vman73
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Gig Harbor, WA - USA

Vette(s):
1973 L82 4 Speed Coupe - Very original, well documented driver/survivor. 2016 Bend Regional NCRS Top Flight.


Joined: 10/2/2014
Posts: 405

Joel - Will do on the new oil pump and the balancer, keep the tips coming !! Wow, Summit Racing just made the top of my preferred vendor's list. Online order placed late Wednesday night about midnight PST, the complete shipment from their Sparks NV warehouse arrived at my door this morning !!

|UPDATED|4/17/2015 11:58:33 AM (AZT)|/UPDATED|


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Duct tape is the new Black !!
Re: While I've Got That Apart (13/23)
 4/18/15 12:43am
Tom74
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Eagle Point, OR - USA

Vette(s):
74 Stingray Coupe, T-Tops, Matching Numbers L48/auto, Yellow w/ Black interior


Joined: 6/5/2013
Posts: 15

John, You are right about Summit Racing. I use them a lot for the various cars I work on. Living in southern Oregon I usually get my parts from them the next day. Their customer service is No.1, at least in the Sparks Dist. Center. 
Re: While I've Got That Apart (14/23)
 4/18/15 7:29am
cinorLifetime Member
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, - Canada

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1975 L48 Stingray 1992 LT1


Joined: 12/24/2013
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Thats what i said too and look what happened to me.



https://www.c3vr.com/member_uploads/26301_26400/26343/my-cars-024-(640x460).jpg

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Re: While I've Got That Apart (15/23)
 4/18/15 9:02am
dwa175
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leesburg, FL - USA

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1979 coupe and now 2007 c-6


Joined: 7/19/2014
Posts: 195

a-man    been there  don't want to go back   dwa
Re: While I've Got That Apart (16/23)
 4/18/15 12:09pm
Vman73
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Gig Harbor, WA - USA

Vette(s):
1973 L82 4 Speed Coupe - Very original, well documented driver/survivor. 2016 Bend Regional NCRS Top Flight.


Joined: 10/2/2014
Posts: 405

Cindy - been there, done that (twice), looks like your doing a great job !! I am desperately trying to keep the body on and engine in this one. Keep us posted on your progress. What your current ETA on completion ??

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valkman57@sbcglobal.net
NCRS Member 61302
NW NCRS Chapter Member



Duct tape is the new Black !!
Re: While I've Got That Apart (17/23)
 5/22/15 3:12am
Vman73
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Gig Harbor, WA - USA

Vette(s):
1973 L82 4 Speed Coupe - Very original, well documented driver/survivor. 2016 Bend Regional NCRS Top Flight.


Joined: 10/2/2014
Posts: 405

So its been a couple weeks since I started my water pump to rear main seal project and I thought I'd post some pics and an update. Overall the project has gone smooth, really smooth. Things were pretty dirty and grimey, but no major problems during the tear down. Nothing busted, stripped or otherwise threw a monkey wrench into the works. I've been taking my time, cleaning, tagging and bagging everything for easy re-assembly. The only real issues I've had so far were some new parts that were close, but required some exchange.

Under the "very glad I did this" column are the timing chain and oil pan.

 

The timing chain was the original and surprisingly the plastic coated cam gear was in still one piece. It was showing a bit of age and had a few cracks in it so I'm glad it's outta there. The chain itself was the worst part - as a result of gear wear, chain stretch or both, it had a strong 1/2" of play on each side. Bye bye Mr. chain !!

The oil pan was the other part of the "glad I did this". The pick-up screen was pretty gritty and there was about 1/4" of gray "bubble gum" sludge in the bottom of the pan. New pick-up installed and pan nice and clean, I also was able to carefully tap out a few dents in the oil pan before a coat of paint.



So now it's time for the new chain and gears, Comp Cams 3100 true roller. Fit like a glove and I've got to say some pretty serious engineering went into getting that wider chain and gears under the stock TC cover. I got out the calipers and the calculator several times to make sure it was going to clear both the block and cover.



 As part of the clean-up effort I removed the fuel pump. It certainly looks original, but I need to do some research into the PN number I found. Anyone got AC fuel pump part number ID codes ?? Removing the fuel pump also made replacement of the RH motor mount much easier. With some clean up and new motor mounts on both sides I could actually see where my new plug wires needed to be routed up to the forward plugs.



Here's a shot of the the top end with TC back on, plug wires routed and PS pump cleaned and ready to go. Just waiting for the return of my harmonic balancer. Found a guy down in Salem OR. that specializes in HB's. Cleaned, reset to original specs and bonded with a special silicone that replaces the original rubber sleeve. Guaranteed for the life of the car and he rebuilt my original balancer, not one from the core pile.



Another shot from the bottom end. PS control valve rebuilt and installed with new pressure and return lines to the pump. Except for some oil and a new filter, the bottom side is ready to go. 

Here's where I ran into a few parts problems. 

First of all the pick-up I ordered was too short and would not clear the internal oil pan baffle, no big deal. Also had to search out a new oil pump. The high volume pump I ordered from Summit came with a warning label that it was high pressure, not what I ordered. Called Summit, they called Sealed Power and assured me the the pump was high volume only and the warning label was inserted by mistake. Looking at the box, which looked as though it had been previously opened, I decided to play it safe and install a standard pressure/volume pump fresh from my local Napa.

The final parts disappointment was the new one piece oil pan gasket by Felpro. I had just used their new t-stat gasket with the built in o-ring and was looking forward to the one piece pan gasket. Out of the box it looked great but as I started to read the instructions and noticed the new set of pan bolts that came in the kit, I knew I had a problem. The new gasket is quite a bit thicker than the standard and they highly recommend the use of the longer bolts for proper thread engagement. Doing a little dry fit, it soon became clear that my original pan bolts wouldn't even come close. Being the original nuts and bolts guy that I am, back to Napa for the std. 4 piece kit. I think the new gasket is a great gasket design and I may use it on other vehicles, just not this one.

More to come when my HB arrives !! 





|UPDATED|5/22/2015 12:12:32 AM (AZT)|/UPDATED|


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John Sigmund
valkman57@sbcglobal.net
NCRS Member 61302
NW NCRS Chapter Member



Duct tape is the new Black !!
Re: While I've Got That Apart - PROJECT UPDATE (18/23)
 5/22/15 7:24am
Adams' AppleLifetime Member
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Duncanville, TX - USA

Vette(s):
#1-1974 L-48 4spd Cp Med Red Metallic/Black deluxe int w/AC/tilt/tele./p/w-p/b/ Am-Fm/map light National/Regional/Chapter NCRS "Top Flight" #2-1985 Bright Red/Carmine Cp.L-98/auto Member: NCRS, NCRS Texas, Corvette Legends of Texas


Joined: 11/8/2003
Posts: 20126

The 40769 fuel pump is correct for the car. Same pump was/is used for several year/car models....very common pump.
Looking good!! Thumbs Up


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Joel Adams
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Re: While I've Got That Apart - PROJECT UPDATE (19/23)
 5/22/15 2:05pm
Vman73
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Gig Harbor, WA - USA

Vette(s):
1973 L82 4 Speed Coupe - Very original, well documented driver/survivor. 2016 Bend Regional NCRS Top Flight.


Joined: 10/2/2014
Posts: 405

Hey Joel, thanks for confirming the fuel pump P/N. I also did some digging and found date code information on the NCRS website - the 305L preceeding the P/N is the Julian date code for the pump. 305 = October 31st, L = 1972, both are perfect for my December 13th, 1972 car !!

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Duct tape is the new Black !!
Re: While I've Got That Apart - PROJECT UPDATE (20/23)
 5/24/15 10:24am
cinorLifetime Member
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1975 L48 Stingray 1992 LT1


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Wow looks great, sadly I'm a long way from where you are.  Just finished seeding so hopefully get to sandblasting the frame in June.My hopes are to have suspension all back on car this fall, I do have some of it all redone and just waiting for frame so I can continue.  On the other hand I have been working on my 92, just back from shop where i had the cracks fixed on fenders and a paint job.  Looks like previous owner had fender flares on it and did a poor job of fixing the holes, hence the cracks, now I'm hoping to replace front and rear seal as it has developed oil leaks and that drives me crazy.  Not going to do that I will take it to a shop some things are just worth paying for when you don't have a hoist to work on these cars. Thumbs Up

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Re: While I've Got That Apart - PROJECT UPDATE (21/23)
 5/24/15 2:29pm
Vman73
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Gig Harbor, WA - USA

Vette(s):
1973 L82 4 Speed Coupe - Very original, well documented driver/survivor. 2016 Bend Regional NCRS Top Flight.


Joined: 10/2/2014
Posts: 405

Thanks Cindy, hope to have it back together and running today. Glad to hear you've got at least one of your cars to enjoy this summer. Keep pushing on the '75, once you turn the corner and start putting all those new and cleaned up parts back together it will all be worth it !!

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Duct tape is the new Black !!
Re: While I've Got That Apart - PROJECT COMPLETE (22/23)
 6/2/15 4:52pm
Vman73
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Gig Harbor, WA - USA

Vette(s):
1973 L82 4 Speed Coupe - Very original, well documented driver/survivor. 2016 Bend Regional NCRS Top Flight.


Joined: 10/2/2014
Posts: 405

So my harmonic balancer came back from rebuild and installed with no problem. For those interested I had it rebuilt by Dale Manufacturing, you can check them out at www.hbrepair.com. Family business since the 70's, great guy to deal with. Total rebuild including return shipping was $167.65. The only minor issue was he'll repaint it in any color as long as you want it black. I asked him to do a "primer only" and I sprayed it with a light coat of Chevy orange before installation. It will be interesting to see if judges notice silicone rubber insulator vs. original rubber ?? As I mentioned in my previous update, the biggest reason I went to Dale was that he rebuilt my original HB, not one from the core pile. All of my research suggests that no one (including NCRS) is recognizing date codes on HB's yet, but mine had a clear L2F stamped on the face of it. Perhaps L = Nov., 2 = 1972, which would be correct for this car, time will tell. 



The rest of the re-assembly went just as well, original rebuilt water pump back in along with correct radiator and heater hoses from Bair's. Removed the dist., primed the oil pump and fired it up. No funny noises and my drip pan is now clean and dry. I was a little concerned when the new rear main seal dripped about three or four drops upon the initial prime and fire, but after a few trips up and down the block, everything is dry. Overall I think the engine is running and accelerating smoother, it certainly seems quieter. I attribute both to the worn timing chain components. I noted a little more oil pressure at the gauge with the new pump and pick-up, but certainly nothing to be concerned about. On the glad I did scale of 1 to 10, I'll give the project an 8. Just a little bit more piece of mind as I drive this car a little farther away home.

So what now ?? My wife just bought me Richard Prince's Corvette '68 to '82 Restoration Guide (2nd Edition) for my birthday. It looks like I will dive a little deeper into all things numbered and dated on this project.  


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Duct tape is the new Black !!
Re: While I've Got That Apart - PROJECT COMPLETE (23/23)
 6/3/15 12:35pm
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Duncanville, TX - USA

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#1-1974 L-48 4spd Cp Med Red Metallic/Black deluxe int w/AC/tilt/tele./p/w-p/b/ Am-Fm/map light National/Regional/Chapter NCRS "Top Flight" #2-1985 Bright Red/Carmine Cp.L-98/auto Member: NCRS, NCRS Texas, Corvette Legends of Texas


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 Thumbs Up  Clap

Judging on the balancer would pretty much be for configuration only, since there's really no way to see much else. I doubt anyone will be looking for something other than factory rubber on it. As long as it is the "correct" thickness, diameter, and has the "correct" shape on the backside, you'll be fine. Good Job!! Thumbs Up

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