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Topic: Why so few C3 4 speeds?

in Forum: C3 General Discussion


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Why so few C3 4 speeds? (1/13)
 11/28/11 4:55pm
glassic
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Roanoke, VA - USA

Vette(s):
Former--1979 L-48 auto, dark blue, oyster cloth Current--1979 L-82


Joined: 10/20/2011
Posts: 36

In '72, about 1 in 8 new C3 owners ordered a 4 spd. For my year, '79, only about 4K out of 53K sold ordered stick shifts. That's not a very impressive/sporting ratio compared to, say, Porsches or BMW 3-series when both autos and sticks are available. (Good news for the resale value of my 79, though, maybe.)
 
We can only speculate and I'm not faulting owners who bought their used C3s with automatic transmissions. After all, it's much easier to find them. I've owned both auto-equipped and stick shift C3s, and I can confirm the 4 speeds are much more fun to drive.
 
Why do you suppose so many people ordered their Vettes with automatics? Poseurs? For urban traffic? For the Mrs?
 
Bill


______________
Whoever dies with Jesus in his heart wins.

  
Click for larger images: 12 or 3
 
1979 L-82, close-ratio 4 spd, 3:70 gears
Rebuilt to 300 HP
Holley double-pumper, Edelbrock intake, headers
Upgraded suspension, American Racing S200 wheels
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Re: Why so few C3 4 speeds? (2/13)
 11/28/11 5:07pm
Gunslinger
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Frederick, MD - USA

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1969 convertible L71 427/435 4-speed black interior


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I think it was for a number of reasons.  The market was changing and the Corvette changed along with it.  More people wanted comfort and a/c...and automatic trannies went along with that boulevard cruiser image.  I believe it was early in the C3 run that coupes started outselling convertibles.  Fewer engine options became offered...some because of Federal emissions regulations, some due to insurance premiums increasing.  

GM and car makers in general were hard pressed to meet both safety and emissions regulations, so they cut where they could to save money...engine options was a prime target.  They built cars with more profit margin built in and reduced less profitable options...the big-block went out after '74 and convertibles after '75.  There was also some fear that the Feds were going to outlaw drop-tops altogether.  

Basically...the market changed or was forced to change.
Re: Why so few C 4 speeds? (3/13)
 11/28/11 9:01pm
corvette440hpLifetime Member
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I don't know if the buyers were getting older, but it did seem like the trend was for personalized luxury cars. In the case for Corvette is was luxury/sport. As Gunslinger wisely pointed out convertibles were going out.........the "T" top kind of helped to diminish the convertibles. I had three Corvettes in the 60's. All were the highest horsepower available. All had 4-speeds. All had 4:56 gears. Corvettes were for die hard enthusiasts, true lovers of fast sport cars. By the time the 70's rolled around, the buyers were a whole different breed. I noticed that doctors and lawyers were now into Corvettes. They didn't even wave when you would pass by. The new clientèle wanted all the luxuries. During the 60's it was all about performance options. AC,  power steering, power brakes, power windows etc were for sissies. Fast forward to now......... everyone wants the 4-speeds and big engines  

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Re: Why so few C3 4 speeds? (4/13)
 11/28/11 11:27pm
Adams' AppleLifetime Member
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Duncanville, TX - USA

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#1-1974 L-48 4spd Cp Med Red Metallic/Black deluxe int w/AC/tilt/tele./p/w-p/b/ Am-Fm/map light National/Regional/Chapter NCRS "Top Flight" #2-1985 Bright Red/Carmine Cp.L-98/auto Member: NCRS, NCRS Texas, Corvette Legends of Texas


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Yeah...as the Sharks aged, the "focus" of the buyers changed, also. By the mid-'70s, buyers were getting away from the pure horsepower cars, and going more toward cruising, and GT type cars. Plus, it was much harder for the manufacturers to emissions certify standard trans cars...still is that way today. The Corvette was putting on weight due to the gov'ment crash requirements, and emissions requirements were killing the hot engines...folks really didn't have much choice but to go with the GT style Corvette...ones made more for touring in comfort than blasting down the drag strip. GM was sellin all they could build like that, so it must have been the right decision, AT THE TIME.
My '74 is a 4 speed...the '85 is auto. Two different cars, for two different purposes. Thumbs Up


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Re: Why so few C3 4 speeds? (5/13)
 11/29/11 6:29pm
CCasey
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New Albany, OH - USA

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1980 Coupe / Snowcrest White / L48, 350 / Comp Cam / Edelbrock Heads / Cyclone Intake / Holley Carb / Holley Fuel Pump / Patriot Headers / Dual Exhaust / Magnaflow Mufflers / 1964 Coupe / Riverside Red / L76, 327, 365hp


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I ordered my '80 in August of 1979.  Not to show my age but I was 27 at the time and insurance companies were charging a premium for the 4-speeds; especially for young men.  So it was a simple matter of economics for me.



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Re: Why so few C3 4 speeds? (6/13)
 11/30/11 1:01pm
glassic
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Roanoke, VA - USA

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Former--1979 L-48 auto, dark blue, oyster cloth Current--1979 L-82


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CCasey said:

I ordered my '80 in August of 1979.  Not to show my age but I was 27 at the time and insurance companies were charging a premium for the 4-speeds; especially for young men.  So it was a simple matter of economics for me.



I've never been asked by an insurance company what transmissions the cars I wanted covered had. I wonder if your experience or mine is more common.

______________
Whoever dies with Jesus in his heart wins.

  
Click for larger images: 12 or 3
 
1979 L-82, close-ratio 4 spd, 3:70 gears
Rebuilt to 300 HP
Holley double-pumper, Edelbrock intake, headers
Upgraded suspension, American Racing S200 wheels
Re: Why so few C3 4 speeds? (7/13)
 11/30/11 1:47pm
corvette440hpLifetime Member
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glassic said:
CCasey said:

I ordered my '80 in August of 1979.  Not to show my age but I was 27 at the time and insurance companies were charging a premium for the 4-speeds; especially for young men.  So it was a simple matter of economics for me.



I've never been asked by an insurance company what transmissions the cars I wanted covered had. I wonder if your experience or mine is more common.

I think the differences are age related. CCasey was 27 and Bill I'm figuring that you are older than that. Years ago, if you were a male under the age of 28 (they kept changing the age) the insurance companies frowned on muscle cars.

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Re: Why so few C3 4 speeds? (8/13)
 11/30/11 1:58pm
glassic
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Roanoke, VA - USA

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Former--1979 L-48 auto, dark blue, oyster cloth Current--1979 L-82


Joined: 10/20/2011
Posts: 36

corvette440hp said:
glassic said:
CCasey said:

I ordered my '80 in August of 1979.  Not to show my age but I was 27 at the time and insurance companies were charging a premium for the 4-speeds; especially for young men.  So it was a simple matter of economics for me.



I've never been asked by an insurance company what transmissions the cars I wanted covered had. I wonder if your experience or mine is more common.

I think the differences are age related. CCasey was 27 and Bill I'm figuring that you are older than that. Years ago, if you were a male under the age of 28 (they kept changing the age) the insurance companies frowned on muscle cars.

No, I was in my 20s when I bought my first C3 and early 20s/late teens when I bought a 403 Trans Am. They never asked about transmissions, but CCasey bought his new and I got mine used. Maybe that makes a difference in how much info insurance companies ask for.
 
I have Amica for car insurance. I can confirm they're great for house insurance. A chimney fire brought our house down, and they paid in full for a brand-new house, plus living expenses for months while it was built.



______________
Whoever dies with Jesus in his heart wins.

  
Click for larger images: 12 or 3
 
1979 L-82, close-ratio 4 spd, 3:70 gears
Rebuilt to 300 HP
Holley double-pumper, Edelbrock intake, headers
Upgraded suspension, American Racing S200 wheels
Re: Why so few C3 4 speeds? (9/13)
 11/30/11 2:04pm
Adams' AppleLifetime Member
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Duncanville, TX - USA

Vette(s):
#1-1974 L-48 4spd Cp Med Red Metallic/Black deluxe int w/AC/tilt/tele./p/w-p/b/ Am-Fm/map light National/Regional/Chapter NCRS "Top Flight" #2-1985 Bright Red/Carmine Cp.L-98/auto Member: NCRS, NCRS Texas, Corvette Legends of Texas


Joined: 11/8/2003
Posts: 20128

Back in the '60s and '70s, a young person had a much harder time getting insurance than an older person, due to less experience, and usually, the younger person wanted a hot car...not a stodgy Oldsmobubble. An 18 year old buying a new L-71, or other high performance car had to pay a really high insurance premium, IF they could find an insurance agent that would cover them. A 30 year old, buying the same car, would pay less, but still more than if they were buying a 6 cylinder Impalla. A high performance car with a 4 speed would most certainly be used for "improper" things such as drag racing...or...horrors...STREET racing!Shocked  Street racing would inveritably result in an accident of some sort...so that's why the insurance folks wanted to know what kind of car they were insuring....Granny in her 6 cyl Biscayne driving 25mph would do a lot less damage than Johnny Racer with a '67 L-88....

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Re: Why so few C3 4 speeds? (10/13)
 11/30/11 2:22pm
CCasey
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New Albany, OH - USA

Vette(s):
1980 Coupe / Snowcrest White / L48, 350 / Comp Cam / Edelbrock Heads / Cyclone Intake / Holley Carb / Holley Fuel Pump / Patriot Headers / Dual Exhaust / Magnaflow Mufflers / 1964 Coupe / Riverside Red / L76, 327, 365hp


Joined: 8/17/2010
Posts: 173

I wish I could remember what the differance was in the premiums for a 4-speed vs an automatic but I do remember that it was significant.  (The issue of type of transmission seemed to only applied to "muscle cars" as I remember, not to all cars.)  I was single at the time, which also added to the cost of insurance.

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Re: Why so few C3 4 speeds? (11/13)
 11/30/11 5:21pm
Gunslinger
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Frederick, MD - USA

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Not that it really applies to earlier C3's, but once the VIN's began showing what optional items the cars were factory equipped with, all the insurance company needed was the VIN to know all they needed when determining rates.  
Re: Why so few C3 4 speeds? (12/13)
 11/30/11 9:39pm
cthulhuLifetime Member
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Hot Springs, AR - USA

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69 Conv #'s match 427, TKO-600/.64, 3.36HD-Posi, HT, T/T, PS, PB, PW, SP, Leather, Comp XE264HR & Roller Rockers & Lifters, Air-Gap RPM intake, Holley St Av 770 VS, MSD 6AL+Dist+Blaster SS, K&N, Jet-Hot Hooker Side-Pipes, Steeroids, Al Rad, Spal Fans


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Gunslinger said: Not that it really applies to earlier C3's, but once the VIN's began showing what optional items the cars were factory equipped with, all the insurance company needed was the VIN to know all they needed when determining rates.  


I concur...  once they went to the longer vin it was all over with.
age does matter of course..  I guess that is why I paid 305 per month insurance when I bought a brand new 98 vette right out of college? (23yrs old)

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Re: Why so few C3 4 speeds? (13/13)
 12/2/11 7:01am
Jeffm
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Sebago Lake, ME - USA

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1978 Silver Anniversary L82 4spd (M21) Red Leather. Pace Car is in the hands of a new caretaker.


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Bill, The low percentage of 4 speed cars is somewhat higher when you look at the book and add up the numbers.
I agree with what's been said concerning insurance, and with horsepower coming down the Corvette became more of a car of comfort than performance. Also, the automatic transmission was becoming a much better performing unit. The first pickup I bought new was a '74 Chev with an auto and I could not kill that thing.
For 1979 take the total production and deduct the automatics (MX1) and that gives you 12,353 4 speeds. With your L82 you got the close ratio (M21) which shows 4,062 of the 12,353.
Not the best highway cruisers with the 3.70, but they are a blast to drive.

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