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Brake Mystery (1/43)
2/8/09 8:51pm

tinbender
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edgwood, MD - USA

Vette(s):
1975 convertible,with the hard top and power streering.it a 350 L48 with auto trans. the color is light blue.

Joined: 11/1/2007
Posts: 736

I went to take the vette out today , and as I was starting it up I got a surprize. The brake pedel went to the floor.I checked the brake resisviour itwas 3/4 full in the front section,however the back section was bone dry.I drove the car two weeks ago with no probelms.

there are no signs of leaking under the car,and the brakes didn't make any nosie. Has anyone had this happen to them?Any ideas what to look for would be helpful.

Rick

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Brake Mystery (2/43)
2/8/09 9:25pm

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HOWELL, NJ - USA

Vette(s):
1979, Targa Blue (72 Color), Pace Car rear spoiler, L88 hood, Dark blue factory interior, 525HP 406, HD 700R4, 370 gears,Steeroids, composite rear spring, TT IIs wrapped in T/A Radials.

Joined: 5/18/2004
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The rear section of the reservoir goes to the rear wheels. I would check the rubber lines first. If they're ok, may be your calipers. Do you know how old they are?

Brake Mystery (3/43)
2/8/09 11:49pm

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Duncanville, TX - USA

Vette(s):
#1-1974 L-48 4spd Cp Med Red Metallic/Black deluxe int w/AC/tilt/tele./p/w-p/b/ Am-Fm/map light National/Regional/Chapter NCRS "Top Flight" #2-1985 Bright Red/Carmine Cp.L-98/auto Member: NCRS, NCRS Texas, Corvette Legends of Texas

Joined: 11/8/2003
Posts: 20128

If there are no leaks, or fluid running down the wheels from a caliper leaking, your master cylinder is leaking into the booster...

Loosen the two nuts that hold the master to the booster, and pull it out a couple of inches, and see if the rear is wet with brake fluid. If so, you'll need to rebuild the master, or replace it.
Also, it would be a good idea to get as much fluid out of the booster as you can. A turkey baster with a long hose attached will do the job. You can go thru the hole where the plastic vacuum check valve goes to suck the fluid out of the master. That's a LOT easier than pulling the booster out, and turning it upside down!
hth

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Brake Mystery (4/43)
2/9/09 12:02am

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Sykesville, MD - USA

Vette(s):
1979 Corvette Coupe Corvette Light Blue Midnight Blue interior Mirrored Glass T-tops

Joined: 4/27/2008
Posts: 4238

Hey, Rick, sorry to hear about the trouble you're having. Remember, I just had to have the master cylinder and booster replaced on mine right before the Chip Miller show last November. Hope you get it worked out before spring! Mines in the shop right now getting the valve seals done. Let me know how it works out. The bakes on these cars do have their unique quirks!

Barry

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Brake Mystery (5/43)
2/9/09 10:43am

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BINGHAMTON, NY - USA

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Joined: 7/19/2003
Posts: 3808

Vette brakes ,problems, Shocked

Shocked

,never heard of that Wink

Wink

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Brake Mystery (6/43)
2/9/09 2:34pm

VetteSpecialties
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Mounds View, MN - USA

Vette(s):
70 LT1 coupe, 69 350 HP coupe, 69 390HP 427 coupe, 71 LS5 convert, 85 coupe, 93 coupe

Joined: 5/24/2007
Posts: 1031

To add to what Joel said, sometimes the master cylinder leaks past the piston, so you don't see an external leak. The only real test for that is to plug the two outlet holes, and push the pedal. It should be rock hard, and not fade no matter how long you hold it.

Larry

Brake Mystery (7/43)
2/9/09 7:32pm

tinbender
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edgwood, MD - USA

Vette(s):
1975 convertible,with the hard top and power streering.it a 350 L48 with auto trans. the color is light blue.

Joined: 11/1/2007
Posts: 736

That's the mystery I don't have a booster,because I don't have power brakes.Today I crawled under the car and looked at the wheels there was nothing.Everything is dry,then I checked the inside under the dash again nothing. Confused

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Strange.

Brake Mystery (8/43)
2/9/09 9:35pm

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Duncanville, TX - USA

Vette(s):
#1-1974 L-48 4spd Cp Med Red Metallic/Black deluxe int w/AC/tilt/tele./p/w-p/b/ Am-Fm/map light National/Regional/Chapter NCRS "Top Flight" #2-1985 Bright Red/Carmine Cp.L-98/auto Member: NCRS, NCRS Texas, Corvette Legends of Texas

Joined: 11/8/2003
Posts: 20128

If the rear segment of the master was "bone dry", there has to be a leak there somewhere....

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Brake Mystery (9/43)
2/18/09 8:33pm

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Liverpool, NY - USA

Vette(s):
72 coupe, 350 4 spd, modified motor, exhaust, tires & wheels. '91 ZR1, modified exhaust.

Joined: 1/21/2003
Posts: 82

WOW!!! That's a tough call. Brake fluid loss with NO SIGNS of fluid, ANYWHERE!!!. C'mon, there's gotta be more you're not telling us. It's gotta show somewhere, even the bowl should look wet. Otherwise, there wasn't any fluid in the rear bowl to begin with. Brake fluid doesn't evaporate that quick, if at all.

Brake Mystery (10/43)
2/18/09 10:15pm

tinbender
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edgwood, MD - USA

Vette(s):
1975 convertible,with the hard top and power streering.it a 350 L48 with auto trans. the color is light blue.

Joined: 11/1/2007
Posts: 736

That why it's a mystery,one of the guys at work had a good idea. check to see if the fluid ran into the frame. I have to wait for a little warmer weather to check it. And no I did not leaving anything out ;I went to put the car in gear ,stepped on the brake and nothing.

Thanks Rick

Brake Mystery (11/43)
2/18/09 11:06pm

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Duncanville, TX - USA

Vette(s):
#1-1974 L-48 4spd Cp Med Red Metallic/Black deluxe int w/AC/tilt/tele./p/w-p/b/ Am-Fm/map light National/Regional/Chapter NCRS "Top Flight" #2-1985 Bright Red/Carmine Cp.L-98/auto Member: NCRS, NCRS Texas, Corvette Legends of Texas

Joined: 11/8/2003
Posts: 20128

Into the frame? I guess it's possible, but it seems like there would still be some sign of a leak around the proportioning valve(I'm assuming that's where he thinks it might be leaking from).

Have you filled the reservoir up again yet, and pumped the pedal to see if it would pump up?

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Brake Mystery (12/43)
2/18/09 11:32pm

tinbender
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edgwood, MD - USA

Vette(s):
1975 convertible,with the hard top and power streering.it a 350 L48 with auto trans. the color is light blue.

Joined: 11/1/2007
Posts: 736

yes but need to bleed the lines,have to wait for better weather. where would i put the floor jack to raise the car to

put the stands under the rear of the car?

Brake Mystery (13/43)
2/18/09 11:43pm

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Duncanville, TX - USA

Vette(s):
#1-1974 L-48 4spd Cp Med Red Metallic/Black deluxe int w/AC/tilt/tele./p/w-p/b/ Am-Fm/map light National/Regional/Chapter NCRS "Top Flight" #2-1985 Bright Red/Carmine Cp.L-98/auto Member: NCRS, NCRS Texas, Corvette Legends of Texas

Joined: 11/8/2003
Posts: 20128

I put my jack under the side of the frame, ahead of the rear tire, and jack up one side at a time. Then I put the jack-stand just behind the jack, on the frame. Trying to jack one up from the diff is really hard...especially with the spare tire under there!

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"Money can't buy happiness -- but somehow it's more comforting to cry in a CORVETTE than in a Kia"

Brake Mystery (14/43)
2/19/09 12:35am

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Burke, VT - USA

Vette(s):
SOLD - "The Toy" - '70 Convertible
SOLD - "The Beast" - '90 ZR-1 (#682)
SOLD - "Betty" - '28 Ford Model A Tudor
Still have - "BLKBRRD" - '78 Pontiac Trans Am

Joined: 1/23/2002
Posts: 7190

I put a 4x4x4 chunk of wood on the jack pad. That fits right up in between the pipes to the diff. And I come from the side of the car with the jack not from behind. Easier to see that way and a little more clearance since the front is already up on stands.

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Brake Mystery (15/43)
2/19/09 12:22pm

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Liverpool, NY - USA

Vette(s):
72 coupe, 350 4 spd, modified motor, exhaust, tires & wheels. '91 ZR1, modified exhaust.

Joined: 1/21/2003
Posts: 82

Using a floor jack, I would raise the front at the cross member. I always use a piece of scrap wood between the jack pad and the vehicle whenever I lift the vehicle. And place a couple of jack stands either directly under the A-arms or under the frame rails somewhere securely between the A-arms and just rear of the front tires. At the rear, I always jack at the differential and put the stands at the frame rails either just ahead of or behind the rear tires, whichever is the safest and most accessable to do. I NEVER jack the side up at any time, that is putting too much pressure at points that don't really like it. If you do, notice all the crunching and crackling noises. That's from the frame and fiberglass twisting. Good luck, hope you find the problem. And whatever you do, make sure you take your time to do it safely.

Brake Mystery (16/43)
2/19/09 2:06pm

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Duncanville, TX - USA

Vette(s):
#1-1974 L-48 4spd Cp Med Red Metallic/Black deluxe int w/AC/tilt/tele./p/w-p/b/ Am-Fm/map light National/Regional/Chapter NCRS "Top Flight" #2-1985 Bright Red/Carmine Cp.L-98/auto Member: NCRS, NCRS Texas, Corvette Legends of Texas

Joined: 11/8/2003
Posts: 20128

Check out This thread on jack placement...

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Joel Adams
C3VR Lifetime Member #56
My Link

(click for Texas-sized view!) NCRS

"Money can't buy happiness -- but somehow it's more comforting to cry in a CORVETTE than in a Kia"

Brake Mystery (17/43)
2/19/09 2:53pm

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[QUOTE=Adams' Apple]Check out This thread on jack placement...

[/QUOTE] Joel.......it doesn't work.....

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corvette440hp

Brake Mystery (18/43)
2/20/09 9:07am

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Duncanville, TX - USA

Vette(s):
#1-1974 L-48 4spd Cp Med Red Metallic/Black deluxe int w/AC/tilt/tele./p/w-p/b/ Am-Fm/map light National/Regional/Chapter NCRS "Top Flight" #2-1985 Bright Red/Carmine Cp.L-98/auto Member: NCRS, NCRS Texas, Corvette Legends of Texas

Joined: 11/8/2003
Posts: 20128

Story of my life!

The thread is from 3 years ago...if you do a search, it comes up, but will only be valid for a certain amount of time. I guess it is due to it being an archived thread....
Anyway, just do a search on "Jack Placement"...

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Joel Adams
C3VR Lifetime Member #56
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(click for Texas-sized view!) NCRS

"Money can't buy happiness -- but somehow it's more comforting to cry in a CORVETTE than in a Kia"

Brake Mystery (19/43)
2/20/09 9:41am

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Dorr, MI - USA

Vette(s):
71 Colonnade Hardtop Coupe Torch Red with black interior originally L48 built to push around 360hp

Joined: 8/21/2002
Posts: 2581

Hi Rick. I had a similar situation on my 71. The front bowl went down. Like you I didn't see any actual puddle under car, but when I got it up on the hoist the line going to the left front caliper was leaking. The only indication was a stain on the back side of the caliper that I couldn't see until I got the wheel off. The mystery was why did it decide to start leaking? I replaced the line and so far so good.

You'll figure it out. "T"

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Brake Mystery (20/43)
2/20/09 1:58pm

VetteSpecialties
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Mounds View, MN - USA

Vette(s):
70 LT1 coupe, 69 350 HP coupe, 69 390HP 427 coupe, 71 LS5 convert, 85 coupe, 93 coupe

Joined: 5/24/2007
Posts: 1031

One thing we have all forgotten to notice is that the front brakes have obviously failed, too. The design of a dual master cylinder is such that one end can fail and the other end still work. I would guess your rears have not worked for some time, and now the fronts failed.

Larry

Brake Mystery (21/43)
2/20/09 9:28pm

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CUYAHOGA FALLS, OH - USA

Vette(s):
1975 C3 Red, T-Tops, Black Interior. All I need is time and money! Getting there!

Joined: 12/2/2003
Posts: 6424

Take a very close look under the dash. They can leak out of the back of the master cylinder, and as with the caliper example, leave only small traces. These traces can run under the matting and carpet, leaving very little traces.

Could be something else, but you may want to pull the master cylinder loose and move it forward just a small amount to take a better look. You can leave the lines and link to the pedal attached.

Brake Mystery (22/43)
2/21/09 4:52pm

tinbender
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edgwood, MD - USA

Vette(s):
1975 convertible,with the hard top and power streering.it a 350 L48 with auto trans. the color is light blue.

Joined: 11/1/2007
Posts: 736

As for not having rear brakes before I found the current problem,I wasn't having any truoble stopping. Are you all saying that putting the car on jack stands can cause other problems? It's been a little to cold for me to work on the car(down side of not having a garage Unhappy

Unhappy

) Also I did check under the dash where the brake pedel comes though the fire wall.

Rick

Brake Mystery (23/43)
2/21/09 7:32pm

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Liverpool, NY - USA

Vette(s):
72 coupe, 350 4 spd, modified motor, exhaust, tires & wheels. '91 ZR1, modified exhaust.

Joined: 1/21/2003
Posts: 82

No Rick, jack stands are a great tool to use and are a great safety helper instead of working underneath a vehicle using only the jack. You never want to trust the jack only. A good Corvette shop manual should show you where you should place the jack stands. If you don't already have one try a local auto parts store. Or check out your local library.
You should hear me piss n moan about my 3/4 size garage to work in. I can't imagine not having a garage at all!!! And trying to do it during the winter!!!!!!!!!!!!! You're a better man than I am. Good luck again.

Brake Mystery (24/43)
2/21/09 7:36pm

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Liverpool, NY - USA

Vette(s):
72 coupe, 350 4 spd, modified motor, exhaust, tires & wheels. '91 ZR1, modified exhaust.

Joined: 1/21/2003
Posts: 82

P.S. Looking at the picture of your car in the driveway, it appears as though it's on a hill. I hope whenever you jack it up it's on a flat level surface?

Brake Mystery (25/43)
2/21/09 10:52pm

tinbender
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edgwood, MD - USA

Vette(s):
1975 convertible,with the hard top and power streering.it a 350 L48 with auto trans. the color is light blue.

Joined: 11/1/2007
Posts: 736

I put it on the street to wok on , saftey #1 always.

Brake Mystery (26/43)
2/21/09 11:57pm

rraider1
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Woodland, WA - USA

Vette(s):
1977 T-Top,350,Auto Black Ruby Pearl,Steeroids R&P conversion

Joined: 10/14/2003
Posts: 1165

Larry is right, if the 75 has the porportional valve, it should have set to block the rear and then turn on the Brake lt

Brake Mystery (27/43)
2/22/09 2:23pm

tinbender
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edgwood, MD - USA

Vette(s):
1975 convertible,with the hard top and power streering.it a 350 L48 with auto trans. the color is light blue.

Joined: 11/1/2007
Posts: 736

It did turn the brake lite on.Howevevr I drove the car the weekend before I found the problem,and I put the car in the driveway.When I did this I had no probelms stopping the car. As my picture shows my driveway is on a angle,and right now I have my TA in the driveway. I backed in put brakes on and parked the car without hitting the TA. the next weekend no brakes and lite was on.

Rick

Brake Mystery (28/43)
2/22/09 11:49pm

rraider1
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Woodland, WA - USA

Vette(s):
1977 T-Top,350,Auto Black Ruby Pearl,Steeroids R&P conversion

Joined: 10/14/2003
Posts: 1165

I beleive if you replace the fluid and do a brake bleed you will discover the problem. if you bleed and things reset and you see no evidence of fluid at the calipers and lines, you would be ok. if the fluid loss occurrs again it would have to be in a hidden spot like the booster or were the metal lines are not exposed

Brake Mystery (29/43)
2/23/09 10:34am

tinbender
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edgwood, MD - USA

Vette(s):
1975 convertible,with the hard top and power streering.it a 350 L48 with auto trans. the color is light blue.

Joined: 11/1/2007
Posts: 736

That my plans ,but I have to waiy for the weather to get a little warmer.I looking at repaceing most of the brake system,because I don't know how long since it's been done or how old the parts are. Just a quick question:the front brakes do they run off the front bowl or the rear bowl,I have been told two different ansewrs.The manual I have dosn't say.tinbender2009-02-23 07:38:58

Brake Mystery (30/43)
2/23/09 1:01pm

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Liverpool, NY - USA

Vette(s):
72 coupe, 350 4 spd, modified motor, exhaust, tires & wheels. '91 ZR1, modified exhaust.

Joined: 1/21/2003
Posts: 82

You should be able to see where the front lines come into the proportioning valve and from there directly into the master cylinder. Typically, the larger sized bowl is for the front brakes.

Brake Mystery (31/43)
2/23/09 1:08pm

rraider1
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Woodland, WA - USA

Vette(s):
1977 T-Top,350,Auto Black Ruby Pearl,Steeroids R&P conversion

Joined: 10/14/2003
Posts: 1165

ON MY 77 THE FRONT BOWL IS FOR FRONT REAR BOWL REAR brakes

Brake Mystery (32/43)
2/23/09 2:22pm

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Duncanville, TX - USA

Vette(s):
#1-1974 L-48 4spd Cp Med Red Metallic/Black deluxe int w/AC/tilt/tele./p/w-p/b/ Am-Fm/map light National/Regional/Chapter NCRS "Top Flight" #2-1985 Bright Red/Carmine Cp.L-98/auto Member: NCRS, NCRS Texas, Corvette Legends of Texas

Joined: 11/8/2003
Posts: 20128

If it has the correct style master on it both "bowls" will be the same size...the front does usually work the rear brakes, and the rear section supplies the fronts...

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Brake Mystery (33/43)
2/23/09 6:15pm

tinbender
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edgwood, MD - USA

Vette(s):
1975 convertible,with the hard top and power streering.it a 350 L48 with auto trans. the color is light blue.

Joined: 11/1/2007
Posts: 736

Thanks guys I let you know what I find when dig into it.

Rick

Brake Mystery (34/43)
2/23/09 8:36pm

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Liverpool, NY - USA

Vette(s):
72 coupe, 350 4 spd, modified motor, exhaust, tires & wheels. '91 ZR1, modified exhaust.

Joined: 1/21/2003
Posts: 82

Come to think of it, they are both the same size, Joel. I haven't worked on mine in so long I forgot. I've been looking at a lot of others.

.

Brake Mystery (35/43)
2/25/09 5:36pm

rraider1
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Woodland, WA - USA

Vette(s):
1977 T-Top,350,Auto Black Ruby Pearl,Steeroids R&P conversion

Joined: 10/14/2003
Posts: 1165

Just to be sure I checked the brake lines on my 77 incase I had something wrond and check my Haynes manual. the front brakes are controled by the front bowl . the line at the master cylynder for front is 3/16th the rear bowl suplies the rear brakes and is a 1/4 in line from master cylender to the perportional valve so they should not be able to be crossed. this is confirmed by the pictures in the hayes manual. I have scan the pictured and if needed can post them

Brake Mystery (36/43)
2/25/09 10:08pm

tinbender
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edgwood, MD - USA

Vette(s):
1975 convertible,with the hard top and power streering.it a 350 L48 with auto trans. the color is light blue.

Joined: 11/1/2007
Posts: 736

My brake mystery just turned into a nightmare from hell! Today was nice so I thought I bleed the brakes. I didn't get that far,when I sat the driver's side down onto the jack stand it went throught the frame.It seams that whoever had the car before me, at one time fiberglassed a rust hole in the frame. They did avery good job of hiding it with the glass and paint repair .I had the car in the shop several times since I have had it and they didn't catch it.I MEAN IT WAS DONE REALLY WELL Angry

Angry

!I am going to take it to a vette shop next friday and see how much and if it can be fixed right.

Rick

Brake Mystery (37/43)
2/25/09 11:28pm

KDADDY79
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Dutchess County, NY - USA

Vette(s):
White '79 Corvette. It's a driver.

Joined: 8/27/2007
Posts: 2484

Hey Rick,

That's a tough hit!

Keep your cool & remember just about anything can be fixed.

Kevin

Brake Mystery (38/43)
2/26/09 12:18am

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Sykesville, MD - USA

Vette(s):
1979 Corvette Coupe Corvette Light Blue Midnight Blue interior Mirrored Glass T-tops

Joined: 4/27/2008
Posts: 4238

Man, Rick, you're sure taking a hit lately. I guess I shouldn't tell you that I'll have mine back tomorrow and mechanically it should be almost as good as new. Where are you taking it? Hope everything works out for you!

Barry

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Brake Mystery (39/43)
2/26/09 12:28am

rraider1
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Woodland, WA - USA

Vette(s):
1977 T-Top,350,Auto Black Ruby Pearl,Steeroids R&P conversion

Joined: 10/14/2003
Posts: 1165

Wow man sorry to hear that. Hope it can be fixed

Brake Mystery (40/43)
2/26/09 10:56am

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Liverpool, NY - USA

Vette(s):
72 coupe, 350 4 spd, modified motor, exhaust, tires & wheels. '91 ZR1, modified exhaust.

Joined: 1/21/2003
Posts: 82

WOW!! Sorry to hear that. If it's only in one or maybe two spots it can be replaced with segments. I really hate to say it but, if that's a hole from rust-through, chances are your frame needs to be replaced!!! GOOD LUCK.

Brake Mystery (41/43)
2/26/09 11:39am

crossfire1982
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Cramerton, NC - USA

Vette(s):
black 1982 coupe slate gray interior, 350 crossfire, 1985 fuel pump, Steeroids R&P conversion

Joined: 8/22/2006
Posts: 1094

Rick, I actually drew up in my chair when I read your post about the frame. I hate to see anybody go through that, especially another vette guy. It makes me a little ashamed for whining about my stuck trailing arm bolts.Crossfire19822009-02-26 08:40:34

Brake Mystery (42/43)
2/26/09 2:24pm

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Elma, WA - USA

Vette(s):
Red 1973 Convertible. L-48 Auto #'s matching Red 1970 LT-1 Convertible #'s matching

Joined: 6/25/2007
Posts: 692

[QUOTE=tinbender]That's the mystery I don't have a booster,because I don't have power brakes.Today I crawled under the car and looked at the wheels there was nothing.Everything is dry,then I checked the inside under the dash again nothing. Confused

Confused

Strange.[/QUOTE]

I would be watching for ex wives and a turkey baster.

Late at night. Hard to spot. Wink

Wink

Brake Mystery (43/43)
2/26/09 3:29pm

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Duncanville, TX - USA

Vette(s):
#1-1974 L-48 4spd Cp Med Red Metallic/Black deluxe int w/AC/tilt/tele./p/w-p/b/ Am-Fm/map light National/Regional/Chapter NCRS "Top Flight" #2-1985 Bright Red/Carmine Cp.L-98/auto Member: NCRS, NCRS Texas, Corvette Legends of Texas

Joined: 11/8/2003
Posts: 20128

NO friggin WAY?!?!?!

That's just wrong on sooo many levels.

That really sux, Rick....I sure hope it's not something terminal...

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Joel Adams
C3VR Lifetime Member #56
My Link

(click for Texas-sized view!) NCRS

"Money can't buy happiness -- but somehow it's more comforting to cry in a CORVETTE than in a Kia"

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