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oil filters (1/40)
 9/7/12 7:11pm
RedVetteinprogress
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West Bend, WI - USA

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My Vette has a 350CI crate motor. The info for the motor says it takes a PF25 AC oil filter. The guy at the auto supply store says that number has been discontinued. I found something on line that said AC filter PF454 is the same as the PF25. Does anyone know if this true or not? Thanks much, Darrell
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Re: oil filters (2/40)
 9/7/12 7:56pm
corvette440hpLifetime Member
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RedVetteinprogress said: My Vette has a 350CI crate motor. The info for the motor says it takes a PF25 AC oil filter. The guy at the auto supply store says that number has been discontinued. I found something on line that said AC filter PF454 is the same as the PF25. Does anyone know if this true or not? Thanks much, Darrell
Yes it's actually improved with an anti drain-back feature.

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Re: oil filters (3/40)
 9/7/12 9:41pm
rep69
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I believe the Fram Ph-30 will also work for you. I know it works on my 69 427.
Re: oil filters (4/40)
 9/8/12 12:02pm
Gunslinger
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I think most any brand will be fine as long as it meets factory specs.  The secret is regular oil and filter changes.  

The crate engine, if it's a GM Performance crate engine will of course specify an AC oil filter since it's also GM.  Any good cross from another brand will work just as well.

I've seen a number of comparisons where someone buys an assortment of brand oil filters and cuts them open to compare construction.  It's amazing the differences between brands and how they're assembled.  Some have cardboard inside them, some have rubber bands holding the filter media together, etc.  There's no question some are made better, but with a regular oil and filter change schedule, they all do the same thing.  If you go with extended oil change intervals, yes, the better filters might make a difference, but essentially, they're do the same thing.




Re: oil filters (5/40)
 9/9/12 9:24am
yostusota
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I like the 454. Simple stuff..I think it's bigger too.

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Re: oil filters (6/40)
 9/15/12 11:20am
73shark
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All oil filters are not created equal.  The filter media and anti-drainback features just to name a couple of things.  I saw a report on Fram filters that showed them failing pressure tests.  Caveat emptor.  Wink

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Re: oil filters (7/40)
 9/15/12 11:47am
rep69
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The topic of filters will have many opinions. The car currently has a fram PH30 installed from the previous owner. It seems to be working well. I will be changing the oil soon, and was just trying to get an idea of what other owners use.
Re: oil filters (8/40)
 9/15/12 8:11pm
KDADDY79
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I spend a few extra scheckles and get the K & N Oil Filter.

Maybe its overkill for my '79 L-48, but I like peace of mind.
 
I've also heard good things about the Napa Gold Oil Filters but I've never bought one.
 
Let us know what you decide to go with.
 
Kevin
Re: oil filters (9/40)
 9/16/12 4:31pm
Sarge81Lifetime Member
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All I have to say is...if the engine has a warranty on it, use the proper Delco filter. Or do as you please.

We had a guy come into my buddy's dealership to redeem a oil change gift certificate that was a door prize at a fund raising benefit.

Long story short. The engine blew, the Chevy dealership blamed it on the aftermarket oil filter, went to court, lost case, paid out $4400 for a new engine. This was even after the guy admitted going 5,000 miles over the recommended service interval. <smh>

I used Delco filters on my GM vehicles, and Motorcraft filters on my Ford truck. That way there is no way they can say it was the aftermarket filter at fault if the engine blows up.


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Re: oil filters (10/40)
 9/16/12 5:23pm
vandemor66
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I've been using the K&N oil filters on my 350ci and I prefer them. I like the wrench off feature as it is faster to get the filter off during a change. I have used the AC and the Fram as well. PF-454 is just larger than the PF-25. We went to K&N because my local auto parts stores didn't carry the one's I wanted consistently. So I went on line to order. So I figured if I'm going to go thru the trouble of ordering on line I'd get something that isn't often in the store anyway.
Re: oil filters (11/40)
 9/17/12 12:53am
daveo76
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I've been using Wix filters recently - they're what my favorite hi-perf local parts store (Baxter's for people in the area) sells.  I asked those guys if the extra $$ for the K&N was worth it and they said not really.  (Although I'd have to admit the wrench-off feature would be nice).  I don't come close to putting 3K miles on this car between oil changes, so more than twice the cost for a super-duper filter may not be needed.  

I've used AC Delco (engine warranty not an issue for me since I rebuilt my original) in the past as well as Fram, but I've also heard suspect things about Fram lately.  


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Re: oil filters (12/40)
 9/17/12 12:58pm
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Well....I'll throw my hat into the ring, and say this....
I use ONLY AC/Delco oil filters on my GM vehicles. The only time I would use anything else is on a new build, where the filter would be changed in just a few miles. That's it...no other reasoning.
I have seen many a Fram filter blow across the shop floor on cold startups back in the day. Don't know if they are any better now or not, but ain't gunna chance it.
Wix filters, imo, are not very good in the filtration department. Don't take much to clog them up, and I have seen some with few miles on them that the element has collapsed.

Since I can no longer buy the "correct" PF25 for my '74, I use the PF454...it is a little larger, but not much.


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Re: oil filters (13/40)
 9/17/12 5:20pm
sfindlan
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I figure I will chime in just because FRAM deserves it....Twice in the last year, I have purchased a Fram filter as part of a package oil change deal - one for my 07 Mustang and another for my Silverado pickup.  In both cases, I could not get the filter to tighten up (I only use my hands to put them on) and it would just spin. Neither one was properly crimped and they would have just blown off under pressure. In a case with a friends car, a Honda, he was using it at an autocross and blew a Fram filter.  Let's just say their quality is not properly reflected in their excellent marketing campaign.  I won't buy any more FRAMs and wont use them if they are part of some package deal. Just not worth the hassle and worry.  I have 3 Corvettes and only use AC or K&N filters on them.  On my Mustang I use Motorcraft or Purolator (which have had very good reviews).

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Re: oil filters (14/40)
 9/17/12 9:23pm
73shark
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Adams' Apple said:

Since I can no longer buy the "correct" PF25 for my '74, I use the PF454...it is a little larger, but not much.


I use the PF35 which is the taller version of the PF25 and was used on the pickup trucks.  Never cut one open to verify that the filter element is actually longer also.  Don't know if they're still available tho as I bought a bunch several years ago on sale. 

Didn't know the PF 25 was no longer available.  Checked the O'Reilly website and they still sell the PF 25.  The PF454 looks like a very short filter.  Not sure what GM is doing as both my Tahoes have filters about the size of soup cans.  Disapprove

Edit: I see why you get the PF-454. OMG  The PF-25 and 35 are $28.  WTF


|UPDATED|9/17/2012 6:23:52 PM (AZT)|/UPDATED|


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Re: oil filters (15/40)
 9/17/12 10:55pm
daveo76
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Vancouver, WA - USA

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Yuse guys have me convinced - I'll switch out my Wix for the Delco PF454 next chance I get.  

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1976 Silver/Firethorn.  L48, 4spd.  Original 2 bolt, vortec heads, 9.4:1 CR, Speed Pro Cam: 224/224@0.050, 112 LSA, Eagle Steel Crank.
Re: oil filters (16/40)
 9/17/12 11:25pm
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73shark said:

Edit: I see why you get the PF-454. OMG  The PF-25 and 35 are $28.  WTF





LOL
I actually DO have an original, PF25, still in the original box, from the '70's....I paid $60 for it several years ago....





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Re: oil filters (17/40)
 9/17/12 11:39pm
NorskyLifetime Member
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KDADDY79 said: ...  I've also heard good things about the Napa Gold Oil Filters but I've never bought one.  ...

The last I had heard the NAPA filters are made by Wix.  I've been using them on the entire fleet for years without any issues (that I know of).  Only recently have I switched to a Bosch filter on "The Beast" as it is the filter of choice of a noted ZR-1 guru.
 
Was using Fram filters prior to the switch to NAPA's, also without any issues (that I know of).


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Re: oil filters (18/40)
 9/20/12 9:50pm
rep69
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You can buy a PF 25 on Amazon for $15 if you spend $25 to get the free shipping.  Has anyone used the PF1218 filter. It looks to be a larger version of the PF454.

|UPDATED|9/20/2012 6:50:07 PM (AZT)|/UPDATED|
Re: oil filters (19/40)
 9/21/12 6:48pm
LarryT
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On a related topic, what type of oil do you use?  I have been using "regular" oil (i.e., not synthetic) 10w-30.  I was once told not to use synthetic on these older cars.  Since the car is not drive much, I only change the oil twice a year.  Is that about what everyone else is doing too?

Re: oil filters (20/40)
 9/21/12 8:20pm
rep69
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I am about to change the oil for the first time since I bought the car 3 months ago. The previous owner used Valvoline MaxLife 10w-40. This oil should be ok. I am thinking of adding some ZDDP suppliment. It is always nice to get some other people's thoughts on the topic. I am still new to the corvette. The car will not be driven very much, so it will only be getting an oil change once a year
Re: oil filters (21/40)
 9/22/12 12:31am
daveo76
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I've got 10W-30 Joe Gibbs Hot Rod oil in mine right now (synthetic, ZDDP, $$$) but I think I'm going to switch to Shell Rotella next time, a little bit less $$.  If I'm not mistaken, it's synthetic and has ZDDP as well.  I think it also has a 15W-40 weight that I might try.  

Not sure about the "old cars using synthetic" thing but I just rebuilt my original motor so hopefully synthetic should be fine.  


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1976 Silver/Firethorn.  L48, 4spd.  Original 2 bolt, vortec heads, 9.4:1 CR, Speed Pro Cam: 224/224@0.050, 112 LSA, Eagle Steel Crank.
Re: oil filters (22/40)
 9/22/12 10:22am
corvette440hpLifetime Member
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daveo76 said: I've got 10W-30 Joe Gibbs Hot Rod oil in mine right now (synthetic, ZDDP, $$$) but I think I'm going to switch to Shell Rotella next time, a little bit less $$.  If I'm not mistaken, it's synthetic and has ZDDP as well.  I think it also has a 15W-40 weight that I might try.  

Not sure about the "old cars using synthetic" thing but I just rebuilt my original motor so hopefully synthetic should be fine.  

Dave, I wouldn't use snthetic oil UNTIL the piston rings have been seated. This is what some say:

We recommend using petroleum 10w30 motor oil on break in to ensure proper piston ring seating. If you allow 1500 to 2000 miles in a street engine or 20 to 30 minutes on the dyno at low rpm, the rings will have had sufficient time to seat and the high initial break-in wear will have occurred.



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Re: oil filters (23/40)
 9/22/12 2:35pm
F4GaryGold Member
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Mobil 1 High Mileage 10W-30, one bottle of ZDDPlus, Bosch filter once a year.  

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Re: oil filters (24/40)
 9/22/12 8:27pm
rod7515Lifetime Member
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A few months ago I had a talk with an engineer from the Brad Penn Oil co. I was concern about breaking in my new engine. I was told that Brad Penn oil was a great choice and already had the ZDDP in it. He told me that there was ZDDP in the Brad Penn oil but that I needed to use an actual break in 30 weight oil. He stated that the use of any synthetic oil on a new motor can keep the rings from seating. When I ask him about the break in oil he told me that I needed to drive the car once I had completed the 25 minute break in for approx. 150 miles. At that time I could go to the 10-30 Brad Penn oil. I plan on doing that this week.
Rodney



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Re: oil filters (25/40)
 9/22/12 11:32pm
rep69
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I enjoy all the good feedback. This is helping me to decide how to take care of my 69 427. I do have a small oil leak from the rear main seal. I am concerned about switching to a synthetic. Will I develop more leaks?? Do I keep the same Valvoline Max life 10w40 and add zddp? I am looking at Brad Penn oils? I know there are so many options. Just trying to sort it all out.

Re: oil filters (26/40)
 9/23/12 12:20am
Gunslinger
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The molecules in synthetic oil are smaller and more uniform than dino oil, so they can slip through any gaps in seals and gaskets.  If you have a leaking rear main seal, you'll be depositing expensive synthetic oil on the street rather than through your engine's oiling system.

As far as which oil is best for your engine, look at it this way...the cheapest oil on the market today is far, far better than the best oils available when your car and engine were built.  If you get the rear main seal replaced, feel free to use synthetic, dino or a synthetic blend.  It's your choice and your money.  Your engine will be happy either way as long as you choose the right oil for your expected driving conditions.

I have a '69 427/435 and use dino oil and I don't see where I'm at any disadvantage.  Regular oil and filter changes are the secret more than the brand oil or whether it's synthetic or otherwise.  

As far as brand goes...yes there can be differences, but the Quaker State, Castrol, Pennzoil or whatever brand you buy today is not the same as the same brand and weight oil they made a year ago.  There's no mom and pop oil refineries.  Oil companies are constantly changing their formulas to meet the requirements of car makers, the EPA, race teams, etc.  

I think it's better to stick with the same base oil than the brand...there's paraffin base and asphalt base dino oils...they have differing characteristics but are refined to do the same job with the necessary additive packages.  While the differences are or no significance, somehow I think it's better to stick with the same base oil.  Even then, most US pumped oils are of a grade to be easier to refine into lubricants than mid-East pumped oil, so those oils are more often refined into fuels.  If that's the case, the point of base oils is likely moot.

Just my opinion.
Re: oil filters (27/40)
 9/23/12 11:26am
daveo76
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Concerning the use of synthetic on a new or newly rebuilt engine: there appears to be a lot of debate on this topic.  I just spent some time on the Joe Gibbs Driven Oil FAQ site, and, while that exact question is not answered, there is an FAQ of "How long should I leave the break-in oil in" and here's the answer:

Frequently Asked Questions

How long can I leave the BR in my new engine?

 

Joe Gibbs Racing uses the BR for the first 2 hours on a new or rebuilt engine to break-in the cams and seat the rings. After 2 hours on the dyno, JGR switches to the correct viscosity synthetic oil for that engine build.

=============================================================================

I didn't use Joe Gibbs break-in oil in my new motor but I did use Comp Cams break-in and left it in for 100 or 150 miles after the cam break-in and then switched to the Joe Gibbs hot rod oil.  I should be good as far as ring seating.  I hope.  



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Re: oil filters (28/40)
 9/23/12 10:44pm
73shark
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Just rec'd Mid America Motorworks catalog that has ACDelco filters for $9.99.

Does the factory run new Corvettes w/ conventional oil before replacing w/ synthetic and shipping them out?


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Re: oil filters (29/40)
 9/23/12 10:52pm
Gunslinger
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Modern LS engines are made to extremely close tolerances and GM engineers feel there's no need for a non-synthetic break-in oil.  Since LS engines have been in Corvettes since 1997 with no problems in that regard, it seems that they were right.


Re: oil filters (30/40)
 9/24/12 1:09am
73shark
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So is the theory that synthetics are so slippery that the the rings will never "seat"?

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Re: oil filters (31/40)
 9/25/12 1:21pm
RalphTilLifetime Member
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I actually use the Fram PH5 and Castrol 20W-50 synthetic blend.  A friend with a 1978 just lost the cam on his 350 and was told that it was due to a lack of zinc in the motor oil.  Is this true and should I be putting an additive in my oil?  The engine is about to turn 60,000 original miles. I use about a quart every 500 miles (I know I'm avoiding a rebuild) and so I am always in a refill process.  Any thoughts my fellow C-3 ers?

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Re: oil filters (32/40)
 9/25/12 4:24pm
LarryT
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Castrol 20W-50 is some pretty thick oil.  I would be worried about how well that thick oil is lubing the engine, unless you live in the middle of the desert.
Re: oil filters (33/40)
 9/25/12 4:43pm
Gunslinger
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RalphTil said: A friend with a 1978 just lost the cam on his 350 and was told that it was due to a lack of zinc in the motor oil.  Is this true and should I be putting an additive in my oil?  The engine is about to turn 60,000 original miles. I use about a quart every 500 miles (I know I'm avoiding a rebuild) and so I am always in a refill process.  Any thoughts my fellow C-3 ers?


It's always interesting when someone loses a cam they automatically assume it's caused by the oil.  I'm not claiming it's not the case here but my own belief is it's become a convenient excuse by those with an extremely high mileage engine, abused engine or improperly maintained engine.

From what I've seen from all the many, many opinions and "facts" presented in many forums it seems the time a cam would likely get wiped was a brand new one during initial break-in.  After that it's very unlikely there would be problems given reasonable care.

The only engines that appear to be in any kind of danger from lack of zinc are high compression engines with high valve spring forces.

The whole problem became an issue about ten years ago when some substandard cam and lifter blanks came in from offshore.  Combine substandard parts with less zinc in the oil and there's the problem.  Now everyone wants to blame the oil when it was based on substandard offshore camshafts and lifters.
Re: oil filters (34/40)
 9/25/12 4:54pm
VetteCountryLifetime Member
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Belvidere, IL - USA

Vette(s):
1977 Black T-Top ZZ4 5Sp 16in Wheels


Joined: 10/24/2004
Posts: 436

        I have used Fram Filters and Castrol GTX 5-30 in all  domestic vehicles for years and never had a problem. But I use K/N filters on my 77 and 05, with Castrol Edge synthetic 5-30. I think your oil is the most important part and Castrol is one of the best.
Re: oil filters (35/40)
 9/25/12 5:34pm
yostusota
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York, PA - USA

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1969 daytona conv. all original 350 350 380 4 sp w/air..and hard top


Joined: 5/18/2010
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From personal experience I wouldn't use synthetic oil in these old cars..main reason being oil leaks..even the new engines that are essentially glued together will leak more often than not when used..I do use Brad Penn oil though..10-40..the real reason to use synthetic oil is on cars that are driven alot of miles in a short period of time..then it's worth the extra lube life..other than that it's a waste of money.

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Re: oil filters (36/40)
 9/26/12 7:26am
VikingVette
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Greer, SC - USA

Vette(s):
1978 Black with Viking mural painted under hood AM/FM/CB radio, T-top and a 2013 Cyber Gray Grand Sport Coupe, 2LT for my daily driver


Joined: 3/13/2012
Posts: 264

I have just replaced 5 out of the 8 valve seals on the right side of my ZZ4 crate. When I had that engine dropped in, I was told to use 'break-in' oil for the first 1,000 miles, then a blend of break-in and Mobil 1 for another 1,000 and then go to Mobil 1.  This new mechanic I found told me that the valves on the right side were never hot lashed, I had a loose push rod, and a loose rocker arm.  All those issues combined to the fact that I did not have enough oil in that valve train, which is what contributed to the compromised valve seals.  He told me that a synthetic oil will indeed find the tiniest little place to leak.  So I am switching to Castrol GTX 20W-50.  I agree that the viscosity may seem a bit much, but I live in SC and we all know about how much heat these engine compartments build up. 
 
I had a motor home years ago that had a chevy 454 and when I switched to Castrol GTX 20W-50, the oil consumption dropped and the heat build up dropped.  
 
OK...who is going to give me change for my 2 cents worth of comments?


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Warning: The surgeon general has declared that it is NOT unhealthy to smoke your competition AND I just discovered that my corvette is a hybred.  It burns gas and rubber! 
Re: oil filters (37/40)
 9/27/12 12:34am
daveo76
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Vancouver, WA - USA

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1976 Silver/Firethorn. L48, 4spd. Original 2 bolt, vortec heads, 9.4:1 CR, Speed Pro Cam: 224/224@0.050, 112 LSA, Eagle Steel Crank.


Joined: 8/25/2005
Posts: 857

For some time now I've wondered about the whole synthetic thing - is it really worth it?  I'd be more than happy to go back to conventional, but I do believe there is some truth in the zinc/ZDDP issue.  It sure seems like it's a needed ingredient for a flat tappet cam motor.  I guess you could just get any oil and then add an additive, but I'd rather use an oil that has everything needed included.  Are there any good conventional oils with ZDDP already included?  

FWIW - my newly rebuilt original motor doesn't drip a drop using synthetic - yet.  Guess it could change as it ages, though.  


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1976 Silver/Firethorn.  L48, 4spd.  Original 2 bolt, vortec heads, 9.4:1 CR, Speed Pro Cam: 224/224@0.050, 112 LSA, Eagle Steel Crank.
Re: oil filters (38/40)
 9/27/12 1:01am
73shark
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Overland Park, KS - USA

Vette(s):
1973 Orange Metallic Coupe (orig owner), L82, 4 spd (WR), PS, (A/C & PW (I installed from wrecked 73)), leather, AM/FM Stereo, ran with '65 FI unit earlier & will again some day.


Joined: 7/9/2003
Posts: 864

Doesn't the Shell Rotella for diesels still have the zinc, etc in it?

The reason they reduced the amount in oil is the detrimental effect it has on cats.


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1973 L-82 4 spd

Re: oil filters (39/40)
 9/28/12 1:40pm
F4GaryGold Member
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Grapevine, TX - USA

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1972 LT-1 convertible with factory air.


Joined: 8/26/2006
Posts: 1406

73shark said: Doesn't the Shell Rotella for diesels still have the zinc, etc in it?

The reason they reduced the amount in oil is the detrimental effect it has on cats.


I don't think Rotella has the 1200 ppm level anymore.  I thought I read somewhere that 40w oil and over does have the higher levels of zinc.  Bobistheoilguy.com is usually a good place for info on this.



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Re: oil filters (40/40)
 9/28/12 9:46pm
73shark
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Overland Park, KS - USA

Vette(s):
1973 Orange Metallic Coupe (orig owner), L82, 4 spd (WR), PS, (A/C & PW (I installed from wrecked 73)), leather, AM/FM Stereo, ran with '65 FI unit earlier & will again some day.


Joined: 7/9/2003
Posts: 864

There's a great article re: Oil in the Jan 2012 issue of Corvette Magazine.

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1973 L-82 4 spd

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