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11/18/12 5:25pm - Original Message: '700R4 '
tonytheroofer
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Rochester, NY - USA

Vette(s):
1980 L- 82 fully restored and upgraded.

Joined: 6/12/2012
Posts: 95
In a different topic a lot came up about this transmission TH700R4 

So I am going to list what you will need to make it easy and professional so if at anytime in the future you need to do anything or the car is sold it will be as if the 700R4 was factory done.

Of course a tranny , I got a core off craigs list and you need a 31 spline unit so buy one 87 and up and a good car to get one from is the huge station wagons of the late eighties and early nineties as many had the corvette drive train in them. Make sure it is a 700R4 and not a later 4l60e which is an electronic 700R4 and WILL HAVE no TV cable on passenger side of tranny.

Get a cross member from BTO over drives I do not suggest there tranny because it costs so much , so get a core from craigs list and ask your local corvette club and people at cruise nights who they consider a top notch tranny builder .

TV cable comes in a universal unit where the end will hook up to the kick down carb linkage and the cable fits into the kick down holding bracket. And it is adjustable in length.

Tranny mount is same th350 to th700R4 

Dipstck tube . almost always there on a used tranny ( Core ) 

The biggest hassle is having drive shaft cut , but word of wisdom you also should get new U joints no matter what tranny you put in cause your there ,, anyway cutting a drive shaft and balancing it will be between 50 and 100 total with joints up op to 150.00

Torque converter I went with a 2400 stall cause I have a modded engine , if your modded 2400 to 2600 is fine any more would apply to 500hp and above so dont worry about 3000 or even 2800. Stock motor go stock stall speed on converter

If your tranny  now is solid and fluid is clean blow out existing tranny cooler lines with air if it is installed at a tranny shop ask them to flush lines ,, if you have a bad tranny and cant flush lines install a separate cooler and do not use cooler in radiator this avoids contamination of new tranny

Last but not least , ,shifterworks.com  YOU NEED THIS because it really makes job easier and allows you to not only have the auto 4speed detent on shifter but gives you tranny mounting hardware for shift cable and gives you the new lens that will show P R N D 3 2 1 

Overall once you get the parts together the process of installing tranny is no different then installing the th350 back into car ,, the cross member is sweet it really makes life easy and overall once it is complete it is really a WOW moment , one of those things you will do unlike any other because the take off power is there and when you hit open road and 4th gear kicks in your gonna say wow i guarantee it 
 


 




____________________________________
1980 , ZZ430 , 3.92 rear , 700R4 2400 stall NEW EZ EFI 
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11/18/12 9:54pm - Reply: 'Re: 700R4 '
Case75
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, - Canada

Vette(s):
1975 Corvette 383 stroker w/Patriot 190 heads, Eagle stroker kit, Comp 279TH7 cam, DUI distributor, Edelbrock 7116 intake, Edelbrock 1806 carb, Hedman Hedders, TH400 w/TCI Breakaway 2400 stall, Transgo 1-2 shift kit.

Joined: 6/19/2012
Posts: 230
Thanks for the info. Might be doing this next year. I had mine out for a run today and even with the 3.08 rear I'm turning about 2300 rpm at 60 mph; I keep waiting for the tranny to shift into overdrive...but it's a THM400. LOL 

____________________________________
 
Build Date: May 7, 1975. 383 w/267 RWHP/310 RWTQ
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11/18/12 11:32pm - Reply: 'Re: 700R4 '
ROCKRDR
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Lakeside, AZ - USA

Vette(s):
1975 C3 Stingray

Joined: 7/23/2012
Posts: 126
Good write up I'm thinking of doing mine too but I've been also looking in to the
 200 r4 conversion, you dont need a new crossmember, or drive shaft so I 
have heard. my motor is not "built" just stock 350 with a th400 3.08 gears.
I'm still researching. 



____________________________________
1975 Corvette Coupe 
My first Vette.....trying to fix stuff

My Project:
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11/19/12 8:12am - Reply: 'Re: 700R4 '
manchestershark Lifetime Member
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Equinunk, PA - USA

Vette(s):
1972 conv, 4-speed, 350, 200hp, numbers match, rally wheels, war bonnett yellow w/white top. good condition, nice driver.

Joined: 10/31/2007
Posts: 1901
I have also heard that the R-4 200 will also work without doing a cross member change, and a few other small things, cables and such.  Where can you find a R-4 200, and what vehicles will cross/interchange with the mounts?  Just a basic change to get more MPG, no big HP or Mods.

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11/19/12 8:31am - Reply: 'Re: 700R4 '
Case75
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, - Canada

Vette(s):
1975 Corvette 383 stroker w/Patriot 190 heads, Eagle stroker kit, Comp 279TH7 cam, DUI distributor, Edelbrock 7116 intake, Edelbrock 1806 carb, Hedman Hedders, TH400 w/TCI Breakaway 2400 stall, Transgo 1-2 shift kit.

Joined: 6/19/2012
Posts: 230
manchestershark said: I have also heard that the R-4 200 will also work without doing a cross member change, and a few other small things, cables and such.  Where can you find a R-4 200, and what vehicles will cross/interchange with the mounts?  Just a basic change to get more MPG, no big HP or Mods.

A 200-4R is 1/8 inch longer than a THM350 short shaft (27 3/4" vs 27 5/8"); you're '72 should have come with a THM400 short shaft which has a length of 28 1/4". A 700R4 has a length of 30 3/4 ". The 200-4R has a first gear ratio of 2.74:1 while the 700R4 has a first gear ratio of 3.06:1; the THM400 has a 2.48:1 first gear and a THM350 has a 2.52:1 first gear. The 700R4 will launch the best if you're keeping your old 3.08 rear end. That's the one I'm going with; best of both worlds, quicker launch and better MPG.

____________________________________
 
Build Date: May 7, 1975. 383 w/267 RWHP/310 RWTQ
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11/19/12 9:07am - Reply: 'Re: 700R4 '
tonytheroofer
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Rochester, NY - USA

Vette(s):
1980 L- 82 fully restored and upgraded.

Joined: 6/12/2012
Posts: 95
The 2004R is more a direct swap , When I was looking for a core I could not find a 2004R and the 700R4 was easier to find but took effort I was lucky to grab one off craigs  list for 150.00 paid my builder 800.00 to rebuild it and supply my 2400 stall T/Q converter . 

So if you can find a 2004R yes it is easier but one word of warning to those with low gear rear ends , in over drive  with a 3.08 rear once it hits od and locks up you may find your motor at to low an rpm which will cause the car to lug and the trans to shift up an down a lot on different road surfaces like hills or inclines. Now it may seam 1400 rpm at 55 is great but with out fuel injection you could hate what you end up with. Someone else may have a 3.08 and the O/D who could pipe in because I am going from what I expect you will encounter maybe someone has a real world experience and can tell us all how the combo works. 




____________________________________
1980 , ZZ430 , 3.92 rear , 700R4 2400 stall NEW EZ EFI 
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11/19/12 10:34am - Reply: 'Re: 700R4 '
Case75
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, - Canada

Vette(s):
1975 Corvette 383 stroker w/Patriot 190 heads, Eagle stroker kit, Comp 279TH7 cam, DUI distributor, Edelbrock 7116 intake, Edelbrock 1806 carb, Hedman Hedders, TH400 w/TCI Breakaway 2400 stall, Transgo 1-2 shift kit.

Joined: 6/19/2012
Posts: 230
tonytheroofer said: The 2004R is more a direct swap , When I was looking for a core I could not find a 2004R and the 700R4 was easier to find but took effort I was lucky to grab one off craigs  list for 150.00 paid my builder 800.00 to rebuild it and supply my 2400 stall T/Q converter . 

So if you can find a 2004R yes it is easier but one word of warning to those with low gear rear ends , in over drive  with a 3.08 rear once it hits od and locks up you may find your motor at to low an rpm which will cause the car to lug and the trans to shift up an down a lot on different road surfaces like hills or inclines. Now it may seam 1400 rpm at 55 is great but with out fuel injection you could hate what you end up with. Someone else may have a 3.08 and the O/D who could pipe in because I am going from what I expect you will encounter maybe someone has a real world experience and can tell us all how the combo works. 



A very good point and something I have been thinking about. I've been thinking that a 3.36 rear would be a good compromise between a 3.08 and a 3.55. The 3.36 will cruise at 1750 RPMS with a .70 overdrive at 60 mph with a 27.1" tire (255/60/15) and the 1.63:1 second gear will give 3500 rpm at 50 mph for passing and climb to 5500 rpm at 80 mph. And it will still lug along at about 1500 rpm in overdrive at 50 mph. Decisions, decisions. Chime in anybody.

____________________________________
 
Build Date: May 7, 1975. 383 w/267 RWHP/310 RWTQ
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11/19/12 10:35am - Reply: 'Re: 700R4 '
VikingVette
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Greer, SC - USA

Vette(s):
1978 Black with Viking mural painted under hood AM/FM/CB radio, T-top and a 2013 Cyber Gray Grand Sport Coupe, 2LT for my daily driver

Joined: 3/13/2012
Posts: 264
I have a ZZ4 (so not a LOT of HP), a 3.73 rear end and the TH350.  When I am going 65 mph I am cranking around 3300 rpm.  I don't like long drives at this sustained rpm.  Tony, you mentioned some prices in your original post.  IF I could find a decent tranny, what would be a good, all inclusive, approximate figure I would be looking at for a transmission shop to rebuild it, and for my good (and reasonably priced mechanic) to install it?

____________________________________
Warning: The surgeon general has declared that it is NOT unhealthy to smoke your competition AND I just discovered that my corvette is a hybred.  It burns gas and rubber! 
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11/19/12 10:56am - Reply: 'Re: 700R4 '
DWALKER
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Mechanicsburg, PA - USA

Vette(s):
1980 Coupe

Joined: 11/10/2009
Posts: 51

Check out Extreme Automatics web page. They have overdrives that seem pretty decent. Lots of information.



____________________________________
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11/19/12 11:20am - Reply: 'Re: 700R4 '
VikingVette
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Greer, SC - USA

Vette(s):
1978 Black with Viking mural painted under hood AM/FM/CB radio, T-top and a 2013 Cyber Gray Grand Sport Coupe, 2LT for my daily driver

Joined: 3/13/2012
Posts: 264
DWALKER,
Thank you for the idea.  I have sent them an e-mail asking them for their advice and suggestions.


____________________________________
Warning: The surgeon general has declared that it is NOT unhealthy to smoke your competition AND I just discovered that my corvette is a hybred.  It burns gas and rubber! 
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11/19/12 12:04pm - Reply: 'Re: 700R4 '
manchestershark Lifetime Member
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Equinunk, PA - USA

Vette(s):
1972 conv, 4-speed, 350, 200hp, numbers match, rally wheels, war bonnett yellow w/white top. good condition, nice driver.

Joined: 10/31/2007
Posts: 1901
 Mr. Viking, Keep us in the loop and share any and all info you find.  THANKS!

____________________________________

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11/19/12 12:59pm - Reply: 'Re: 700R4 '
VikingVette
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Greer, SC - USA

Vette(s):
1978 Black with Viking mural painted under hood AM/FM/CB radio, T-top and a 2013 Cyber Gray Grand Sport Coupe, 2LT for my daily driver

Joined: 3/13/2012
Posts: 264

yetanother dumb question from me.  What is the difference between a 2004R (like extreme automatics sells dor $1,496 and a TH700R4?  Is one a true 4 speed automatic and the other an overdrive unit?  I am like a lot of people in here.  I am not too concerned about the mileage, but I do not want to run for any length of time at 3200 - 3300 PRM (doing between 65 - 70 mph). 

I plan on taking the '78 on the 2014 national corvette caravan and I want to at least be able to keep up with all those dad-gummed, fancy, new fangled phiberglass chariots.  On the 2009 caravan, once we got close to Bowling Green, we had a state trooper escort and we were doing over 80mph behind him for 20-30 miles.


____________________________________
Warning: The surgeon general has declared that it is NOT unhealthy to smoke your competition AND I just discovered that my corvette is a hybred.  It burns gas and rubber! 
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11/19/12 2:05pm - Reply: 'Re: 700R4 '
Case75
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, - Canada

Vette(s):
1975 Corvette 383 stroker w/Patriot 190 heads, Eagle stroker kit, Comp 279TH7 cam, DUI distributor, Edelbrock 7116 intake, Edelbrock 1806 carb, Hedman Hedders, TH400 w/TCI Breakaway 2400 stall, Transgo 1-2 shift kit.

Joined: 6/19/2012
Posts: 230
VikingVette said:

yetanother dumb question from me.  What is the difference between a 2004R (like extreme automatics sells dor $1,496 and a TH700R4?  Is one a true 4 speed automatic and the other an overdrive unit?  I am like a lot of people in here.  I am not too concerned about the mileage, but I do not want to run for any length of time at 3200 - 3300 PRM (doing between 65 - 70 mph). 

I plan on taking the '78 on the 2014 national corvette caravan and I want to at least be able to keep up with all those dad-gummed, fancy, new fangled phiberglass chariots.  On the 2009 caravan, once we got close to Bowling Green, we had a state trooper escort and we were doing over 80mph behind him for 20-30 miles.

This Wikipedia article explains it pretty good: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turbo-Hydramatic
 
Basically, a 200-4R is derived from a THM200 with better internals which in itself was derived from a cheaper version of the THM350. A 700R4 is derived from the THM400. The 700R4 became the 4L60 and then the 4L60E in the 90's and was used in Vettes, Camaros and trucks. I'd say the 700R4 is a tougher tranny.



____________________________________
 
Build Date: May 7, 1975. 383 w/267 RWHP/310 RWTQ
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11/19/12 2:07pm - Reply: 'Re: 700R4 '
DaveM Lifetime Member
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Flanders, NJ - USA

Vette(s):
1982 Black, ZZ4, Hooker Side Pipes, 3.55 Rear, Rebuilt & upgraded 700R4, All new suspension, brakes, & new Charcoal interior.

Joined: 1/27/2004
Posts: 2530
I have a ZZ4 engine with the 700R4 trans and a 3.55:1 rear and I'm very happy with the way it runs. I get about 20/21 MPG on a trip and it runs at 2200 RPM @ 70 MPH.
My car is an '82 so it came with the 700R4 trans, I just rebuilt it. I'm sure either the 3.36 or the 3.55 rears would work fine, I just like that little extra kick off the line.
Just more info for the mix.
Dave


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11/19/12 2:46pm - Reply: 'Re: 700R4 '
VikingVette
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Greer, SC - USA

Vette(s):
1978 Black with Viking mural painted under hood AM/FM/CB radio, T-top and a 2013 Cyber Gray Grand Sport Coupe, 2LT for my daily driver

Joined: 3/13/2012
Posts: 264
Case,
Thank you for that information.
 
Dave,
Thank you for your input too.  I remember your car from Charleston and it is a beauty.
 
First I need is a new radiator and getting the A/C working, but before the 2014 caravan, I would like to upgrade the transmssion and based on what you two jsut told me, I think I will strive for a 700R4. 
 
Again, Thank you both for your input. 


____________________________________
Warning: The surgeon general has declared that it is NOT unhealthy to smoke your competition AND I just discovered that my corvette is a hybred.  It burns gas and rubber! 
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11/19/12 3:10pm - Reply: 'Re: 700R4 '
KDADDY79
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Dutchess County, NY - USA

Vette(s):
White '79 Corvette. It's a driver.

Joined: 8/27/2007
Posts: 2484
One more thing;
Factor in the cost of having some exhaust work done when doing this swap.
When I got mine back with the 700R4 installed I had an exhaust leak(s). Ultimately I had to have a new true dual system installed and they had to spend some extra time getting the bends just right.
I'm real happy with the 700R4 in my '79.! It's an excellent upgrade to do on our C3's.
The take off from a dead stop is much better and you can't beat saving those RPM's on the highway. I also really like the feeling of the downshift from O.D. to 3rd. gear. It really takes off!
 
Kevin  


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11/19/12 3:29pm - Reply: 'Re: 700R4 '
VikingVette
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Greer, SC - USA

Vette(s):
1978 Black with Viking mural painted under hood AM/FM/CB radio, T-top and a 2013 Cyber Gray Grand Sport Coupe, 2LT for my daily driver

Joined: 3/13/2012
Posts: 264
KDADDY,
Excellent point.  Thank you.  Shortly after I bought this car (15 years ago) the original exhaust system broke.  When I got this car, there was absolutely NO pollution controls on it.  The exhaust place I took it to had nothing but straight sections of pipe.  He put my car on a lift, eye-balled a piece, got a piece of straight pipe off the wall, mandrel bent it, held up up to make sure it was OK (and it always was...he never used a tape measure), welded everything into place and spray painted the welds with high temp silver paint.  So I have a true dual exhaust.  When I had the ZZ4 put in, that guy installed Hooker Headers, so I have no idea how/if any piping would need to be re-done.  But you brought up a VERY good issue.  Thank you. 


____________________________________
Warning: The surgeon general has declared that it is NOT unhealthy to smoke your competition AND I just discovered that my corvette is a hybred.  It burns gas and rubber! 
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11/19/12 3:57pm - Reply: 'Re: 700R4 '
Adams' Apple Lifetime Member
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Duncanville, TX - USA

Vette(s):
#1-1974 L-48 4spd Cp Med Red Metallic/Black deluxe int w/AC/tilt/tele./p/w-p/b/ Am-Fm/map light National/Regional/Chapter NCRS "Top Flight" #2-1985 Bright Red/Carmine Cp.L-98/auto Member: NCRS, NCRS Texas, Corvette Legends of Texas

Joined: 11/8/2003
Posts: 19458
Case75 said: This Wikipedia article explains it pretty good: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turbo-Hydramatic
 
Basically, a 200-4R is derived from a THM200 with better internals which in itself was derived from a cheaper version of the THM350. A 700R4 is derived from the THM400.

I been kinda following along on this one, but I had to jump in...sorry...I just cain't help meself....Embarrassed


" itself was derived from a cheaper version of the THM350"
Uh...not....LOL
Other than the steel checkballs in the valve body, and the use of Dextron fluid, there is absolutely nothing in a 200/2004R that is derived from the 350 series transmissions. These are two totally different transmission designs. Thumbs Up

"A 700R4 is derived from the THM400. "
Uh...again...not...LOL
The 700 is closer to the 350 trans, and even uses the same low/reverse clutches and steels, as well as the center support/low-reverse sprag. The 350(non-lock up) and 400 transmissions can use the same torque converters, but the 350 usually has a smaller diameter converter. The 400 converter will NOT fit the BOP(Buick/Olds/Pontiac) 350s, due to the shape of the bellhousing on those units.

All things being equal, and they rarely are, I would always go for a 700 over the 2004R. Yeah...I know...the 2004R is an easier swap, but the 700 is a better overall trans, with better 1st and O/D ratios. I've heard all of the guys claiming how stout the 2004R is, "They used them in the Burick Grand Nationals and T-Types". This am true, BUT...those transmissions had a LOT of upgrades done, and they still failed.
I do quite a few 700s for guys that are swapping them out for their 400 or 350s....I have yet to have anyone ax me to build a 2004R for them.
This am all just my opinion....I got no dog in this hunt, so....just trying to add a little more info. Thumbs Up

____________________________________
Joel Adams
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11/19/12 4:26pm - Reply: 'Re: 700R4 '
Case75
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, - Canada

Vette(s):
1975 Corvette 383 stroker w/Patriot 190 heads, Eagle stroker kit, Comp 279TH7 cam, DUI distributor, Edelbrock 7116 intake, Edelbrock 1806 carb, Hedman Hedders, TH400 w/TCI Breakaway 2400 stall, Transgo 1-2 shift kit.

Joined: 6/19/2012
Posts: 230
Adams' Apple said:
Case75 said: This Wikipedia article explains it pretty good: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turbo-Hydramatic
 
Basically, a 200-4R is derived from a THM200 with better internals which in itself was derived from a cheaper version of the THM350. A 700R4 is derived from the THM400.

I been kinda following along on this one, but I had to jump in...sorry...I just cain't help meself....Embarrassed


" itself was derived from a cheaper version of the THM350"
Uh...not....LOL
Other than the steel checkballs in the valve body, and the use of Dextron fluid, there is absolutely nothing in a 200/2004R that is derived from the 350 series transmissions. These are two totally different transmission designs. Thumbs Up

"A 700R4 is derived from the THM400. "
Uh...again...not...LOL
The 700 is closer to the 350 trans, and even uses the same low/reverse clutches and steels, as well as the center support/low-reverse sprag. The 350(non-lock up) and 400 transmissions can use the same torque converters, but the 350 usually has a smaller diameter converter. The 400 converter will NOT fit the BOP(Buick/Olds/Pontiac) 350s, due to the shape of the bellhousing on those units.

All things being equal, and they rarely are, I would always go for a 700 over the 2004R. Yeah...I know...the 2004R is an easier swap, but the 700 is a better overall trans, with better 1st and O/D ratios. I've heard all of the guys claiming how stout the 2004R is, "They used them in the Burick Grand Nationals and T-Types". This am true, BUT...those transmissions had a LOT of upgrades done, and they still failed.
I do quite a few 700s for guys that are swapping them out for their 400 or 350s....I have yet to have anyone ax me to build a 2004R for them.
This am all just my opinion....I got no dog in this hunt, so....just trying to add a little more info. Thumbs Up

Thanks Adam. Goes to show you can't always believe the internet. Smile

____________________________________
 
Build Date: May 7, 1975. 383 w/267 RWHP/310 RWTQ
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11/19/12 4:30pm - Reply: 'Re: 700R4 '
Adams' Apple Lifetime Member
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Duncanville, TX - USA

Vette(s):
#1-1974 L-48 4spd Cp Med Red Metallic/Black deluxe int w/AC/tilt/tele./p/w-p/b/ Am-Fm/map light National/Regional/Chapter NCRS "Top Flight" #2-1985 Bright Red/Carmine Cp.L-98/auto Member: NCRS, NCRS Texas, Corvette Legends of Texas

Joined: 11/8/2003
Posts: 19458
LOL True.
I read about 1/4 way thru that Wiki thing, and started laughing. It's no different than anything else, tho. Wiki lets anyone that wants to add to/edit everything, so ya never really know what yer gunna get....kinda like a box o chok-o-lits. LOL

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Joel Adams
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