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7/28/13 9:30am - Original Message: 'Another interior light question.'
dbarnesid
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Boise, ID - USA

Vette(s):
1972 mille miglia red corvette convertible. This is a car currently under restoration. The pic above is of me and my Ph.D. candidate daughter. She, not my Vette, is my pride and joy. Smile...

Joined: 5/29/2013
Posts: 159
Courtesy lights still don't work. But the center compartment light does work. When I rotate the light switch far left at night the dash lights dim and the amp meter shows discharge. But no courtesy lights. What do you all make of this?

|UPDATED|7/28/2013 7:30:29 AM (AZT)|/UPDATED|


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7/28/13 10:10pm - Reply: 'Re: Another interior light question.'
rraider1
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Woodland, WA - USA

Vette(s):
1977 T-Top,350,Auto Black Ruby Pearl,Steeroids R&P conversion

Joined: 10/14/2003
Posts: 1152

I would say double check the bulbs installed that they are the correct ones.

 
If you can get to one of the courtesy lights check for 12 volts on the ORN wire.
No power you need to trace down the power side.
If power the you will need to chase the ground side


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Bob R
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7/29/13 7:27am - Reply: 'Re: Another interior light question.'
dbarnesid
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Boise, ID - USA

Vette(s):
1972 mille miglia red corvette convertible. This is a car currently under restoration. The pic above is of me and my Ph.D. candidate daughter. She, not my Vette, is my pride and joy. Smile...

Joined: 5/29/2013
Posts: 159
Will check the orange wire on the light in the driver's side footwell this afternoon. Thanks for the suggestion. Even old guys can get to that light!

|UPDATED|7/29/2013 5:27:29 AM (AZT)|/UPDATED|


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7/29/13 12:18pm - Reply: 'Re: Another interior light question.'
Adams' Apple Lifetime Member
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Duncanville, TX - USA

Vette(s):
#1-1974 L-48 4spd Cp Med Red Metallic/Black deluxe int w/AC/tilt/tele./p/w-p/b/ Am-Fm/map light National/Regional/Chapter NCRS "Top Flight" #2-1985 Bright Red/Carmine Cp.L-98/auto Member: NCRS, NCRS Texas, Corvette Legends of Texas

Joined: 11/8/2003
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"Due to recent economic developments, the light at the end of the tunnel has been turned off......" Unhappy

LOL

You say if you turn the light switch to the left, the instrument lamps dim, but you see a discharge on the amp gauge? That's not good....
What happens if you turn the switch the other direction?

If you are showing a discharge(engine running) when dimming the cluster lamps, and the courtesy lamps don't work when turned on with the switch...I'd say you have a short in the courtesy lamp circuit somewhere....
Make sure both courtesy lamps are properly grounded, and both have a full 12v. If not, they will not work....amazingly enough, but I'm sure you knew that.

btw..have you replaced the headlight switch in this thing recently? There are some bad ones out there....

|UPDATED|7/29/2013 10:18:28 AM (AZT)|/UPDATED|


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Joel Adams
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7/29/13 7:24pm - Reply: 'Re: Another interior light question.'
rraider1
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Woodland, WA - USA

Vette(s):
1977 T-Top,350,Auto Black Ruby Pearl,Steeroids R&P conversion

Joined: 10/14/2003
Posts: 1152
Something is really Weird here
 
The 12VDC that is at the courtesy lights, is also joined at a splice point with the Dome Lt, Cig Lighter and Clock.
If only the 2 courtesy lights do not have power, and the others work, the wires would have to be broken somewhere.
The Dome light and courtesy lights are joined at a splice point that can get a ground from the door SWS or from the headlight switch turned fully CCW.
 
If the power is good to the courtesy lights and the dome light is working it would have to be broken wires from the light sockets to the splice point
 
if turning the head light sw CCW and it causes an unusual load as seen on the amp meter (the dome light would come on) then something at the headlight switch must be wrong because opening the doors would do the same thing because that is the ground circuit.
 
If their is a delay timer it is installed into the circuit just prior to the door switches. if I have traced it wright it should be like this
 
 





|UPDATED|7/29/2013 5:24:38 PM (AZT)|/UPDATED|


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Bob R
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7/29/13 8:22pm - Reply: 'Re: Another interior light question.'
dbarnesid
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Boise, ID - USA

Vette(s):
1972 mille miglia red corvette convertible. This is a car currently under restoration. The pic above is of me and my Ph.D. candidate daughter. She, not my Vette, is my pride and joy. Smile...

Joined: 5/29/2013
Posts: 159
Thanks guys. I'm no auto electronics guru so thanks for your patience. Recent developments: 1) With the driver's door open there is power to BOTH the orange and the white wire. 2) When I manually close the switch by pushing on it nothing happens to either wire. Though it appears that the white flickers but it could be my unsteady hand. 3) The courtesy light socket in the driver's side foot well is horribly corroded. I couldn't even remove the light bulb so I snipped the socket off and will replace with a new socket. (Could this be the root of the whole problem?) Do I need a switch and a socket? Opinions are welcome. BTW: The light at the rear of my convertible doesn't work. Only the light inside my storage compartment I.e. glove box.

|UPDATED|7/29/2013 6:22:51 PM (AZT)|/UPDATED|


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7/30/13 12:15am - Reply: 'Re: Another interior light question.'
rraider1
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Woodland, WA - USA

Vette(s):
1977 T-Top,350,Auto Black Ruby Pearl,Steeroids R&P conversion

Joined: 10/14/2003
Posts: 1152
The corrosion could cause you trouble. Check the other courtesy light it might be corroded also.
 
You should not have power on the wht wire. It could be their through the other bulbs because you do not have a ground through any of the switches.
 
 
 
 


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Bob R
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7/30/13 9:22am - Reply: 'Re: Another interior light question.'
dbarnesid
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Boise, ID - USA

Vette(s):
1972 mille miglia red corvette convertible. This is a car currently under restoration. The pic above is of me and my Ph.D. candidate daughter. She, not my Vette, is my pride and joy. Smile...

Joined: 5/29/2013
Posts: 159
If I read the above diagram right there should be a light in the passenger side foot well. But there is none. Ill bet there's mischief over there. I can't find replacement sockets online.
 
If I get one through O'Reilly I imagine it needs a plastic housing for insulation purposes like the original? Also, does lamp size or type matter?
 
I'll keep you all updated since I figure those who are helping me solve this mystery will want to know what gremlins I uncover. Tongue


|UPDATED|7/30/2013 7:22:00 AM (AZT)|/UPDATED|


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7/30/13 11:13am - Reply: 'Re: Another interior light question.'
Adams' Apple Lifetime Member
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Duncanville, TX - USA

Vette(s):
#1-1974 L-48 4spd Cp Med Red Metallic/Black deluxe int w/AC/tilt/tele./p/w-p/b/ Am-Fm/map light National/Regional/Chapter NCRS "Top Flight" #2-1985 Bright Red/Carmine Cp.L-98/auto Member: NCRS, NCRS Texas, Corvette Legends of Texas

Joined: 11/8/2003
Posts: 19459
Yes, there should be a light for the passenger side, also. It is usually clipped up to the bottom of the dash, about the middle of the map pocket.Might be over towards the side vent, tho.

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Joel Adams
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7/30/13 12:58pm - Reply: 'Re: Another interior light question.'
dbarnesid
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Boise, ID - USA

Vette(s):
1972 mille miglia red corvette convertible. This is a car currently under restoration. The pic above is of me and my Ph.D. candidate daughter. She, not my Vette, is my pride and joy. Smile...

Joined: 5/29/2013
Posts: 159
What are the odds the clock starts working after the sockets, switches and bulbs are replaced?
 
Nah... that's too much to ask. Cry


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7/30/13 7:59pm - Reply: 'Re: Another interior light question.'
rraider1
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Woodland, WA - USA

Vette(s):
1977 T-Top,350,Auto Black Ruby Pearl,Steeroids R&P conversion

Joined: 10/14/2003
Posts: 1152

Looking at the 72 electrical diagram it shows the following on the Orange wire Circuit.

R Courtesy
Cigar Lighter
Clock
R Court (Probably LH)
Rear Compartment  ( I think is an Option for convertible)
Glove Box Light
does not show a dome light
 
Hopefully someone with a 72 could verify what lights come on in their cars when doors or Headlight Sw turned will come on.
 
I have a 77 which is slightly different I wish I was near to help youWacko
 
Here is the courtesy light bulb
 
 
 








|UPDATED|7/30/2013 5:59:10 PM (AZT)|/UPDATED|


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Bob R
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7/30/13 9:37pm - Reply: 'Re: Another interior light question.'
yostusota
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York, PA - USA

Vette(s):
1969 daytona conv. all original 350 350 380 4 sp w/air..and hard top

Joined: 5/18/2010
Posts: 1518
Try www.lectriclimited.com ...they probably have the light you're looking for.

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7/30/13 10:27pm - Reply: 'Re: Another interior light question.'
dbarnesid
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Boise, ID - USA

Vette(s):
1972 mille miglia red corvette convertible. This is a car currently under restoration. The pic above is of me and my Ph.D. candidate daughter. She, not my Vette, is my pride and joy. Smile...

Joined: 5/29/2013
Posts: 159
Man I feel like a moron. The needed lights are listed in my owners manual. So no problems there. No matter what I do there is power to both the orange and white wires. Always. door open or closed. engine on or off. Except in the rear storage area. That one seems right. One contact hot and the other cold. I just need a #90 light to be sure. I would think both should be cold unless the door is open though. In the foot wells I removed one socket and the other has no bulb. Still power in both wires. So corrosion in the sockets is not the problem. I'm tempted to buy new switches to see if that works. If it doesn't I'm not sure where to turn. I know so little about vette electronics its embarrassing. I'd rather install a dozen steering boxes. Smile... It seems I must have a bad light switch or bad door switches. When I installed the carpet there were no wires dangling from the switches and nothing looked odd. I do think its strange that two of the sockets were empty when I took delivery and the other burned out. Bubba couldn't fix it either!

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7/30/13 10:42pm - Reply: 'Re: Another interior light question.'
rraider1
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Woodland, WA - USA

Vette(s):
1977 T-Top,350,Auto Black Ruby Pearl,Steeroids R&P conversion

Joined: 10/14/2003
Posts: 1152
Hang in their that's why I tried to make the simplified diagram. The Orange wire should have power on them all the time from the courtesy light fuse.
 
you need a ground on any of the white wires to turn on the lights. Their should not be power on them with the headlight sw turned CCW that should make the wht wires grounded
 
you problem appears to be in the ground circuit Wht wires.
 
Do you know if the 72 had the delay timer for the courtesy lights if so bubba could have messed something up trying to bypass it I believe it would be located behind the clove box. 


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Bob R
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7/31/13 3:09am - Reply: 'Re: Another interior light question.'
yostusota
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York, PA - USA

Vette(s):
1969 daytona conv. all original 350 350 380 4 sp w/air..and hard top

Joined: 5/18/2010
Posts: 1518
Ok time to buckle down and figure this out...first off do you have a DVOM? If not run to harbor freight and pick one up for 10$. Check what the actual voltage is at each of the wires...is it battery voltage on each one?...attach the black lead to a good ground like the battery itself...just clip a wire to the battery ground cable and run it out of the box to the front seat...if you know the voltage on those wires you'll have the answer to the problem. Post it up and we will fix this thing.

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7/31/13 6:30am - Reply: 'Re: Another interior light question.'
Adams' Apple Lifetime Member
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Duncanville, TX - USA

Vette(s):
#1-1974 L-48 4spd Cp Med Red Metallic/Black deluxe int w/AC/tilt/tele./p/w-p/b/ Am-Fm/map light National/Regional/Chapter NCRS "Top Flight" #2-1985 Bright Red/Carmine Cp.L-98/auto Member: NCRS, NCRS Texas, Corvette Legends of Texas

Joined: 11/8/2003
Posts: 19459
If there are bulbs in the sockets, and you are checking voltage with the door open, you WILL have voltage on the white wire IF....the white wire is NOT going to ground, as in, the wire is loose somewhere, or the pin switches are not making good grounds.
With a bulb in the socket, run a ground wire directly to the socket(to the white wire), and see if the bulb lights up. Bet it does. If so, then your mission, should you decide to accept it, is to find out where the ground circuit is open. Thumbs Up


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Joel Adams
C3VR Lifetime Member #56    
My Link


(click for Texas-sized view!)
             NCRS

"Money can't buy happiness -- but somehow it's more comforting to cry in a CORVETTE than in a Kia"
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7/31/13 6:41am - Reply: 'Re: Another interior light question.'
yostusota
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York, PA - USA

Vette(s):
1969 daytona conv. all original 350 350 380 4 sp w/air..and hard top

Joined: 5/18/2010
Posts: 1518
Dang it Joel!! I wanted to show him that..lol...using the wire I said to use from the battery for a ground..but that was supposed to be my next post. You crack me up.

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My first parade at Carlisle 2010
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7/31/13 8:05am - Reply: 'Re: Another interior light question.'
dbarnesid
Former Member
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Boise, ID - USA

Vette(s):
1972 mille miglia red corvette convertible. This is a car currently under restoration. The pic above is of me and my Ph.D. candidate daughter. She, not my Vette, is my pride and joy. Smile...

Joined: 5/29/2013
Posts: 159
Okay. One socket is completely removed no bulb, no socket. Just dangly wires. The other socket has good bulb. ( I tested it.) With bulb in socket grounded white wire in socket and we got light. With bulb in socket I grounded dangling white wire and I got light again. So the white wire is intact. Right? Now what? Pin switches bad? I don't see a delay installed but I could be missing something. Thanks guys.

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7/31/13 8:30am - Reply: 'Re: Another interior light question.'
yostusota
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York, PA - USA

Vette(s):
1969 daytona conv. all original 350 350 380 4 sp w/air..and hard top

Joined: 5/18/2010
Posts: 1518
Almost there! Ok this is the fun part....testing.. using the diagram from above you have power coming in on one wire which is good....the other wire is the ground. .this is where the meter kicks in. Put the red lead on the suspected ground wire, open the drivers door and hook the black lead to the ground wire from the battery that you ran up to the front seat...now set your meter to volts...dc volts...and it should read a very low number....0.02 or less...if it doesn't, which I suspect it will read random high numbers...open the passengers door and see if you get the low number...this may work since the rear interior light works...if it does then remove the door switch on the drivers side and hook the red lead to it as well....if you get the low number then the wire is ok and the switch ground is not good or the switch isn't working...if you don't get the low number then the ground wire from the bulb socket to the switch ground is open...see...easy stuff...im me if you need me to talk you thru this.

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My first parade at Carlisle 2010
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7/31/13 9:30am - Reply: 'Re: Another interior light question.'
dbarnesid
Former Member
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Boise, ID - USA

Vette(s):
1972 mille miglia red corvette convertible. This is a car currently under restoration. The pic above is of me and my Ph.D. candidate daughter. She, not my Vette, is my pride and joy. Smile...

Joined: 5/29/2013
Posts: 159
yostusota said: Almost there! Ok this is the fun part....testing.. using the diagram from above you have power coming in on one wire which is good....the other wire is the ground. .this is where the meter kicks in. Put the red lead on the suspected ground wire, open the drivers door and hook the black lead to the ground wire from the battery that you ran up to the front seat...now set your meter to volts...dc volts...and it should read a very low number....0.02 or less...if it doesn't, which I suspect it will read random high numbers...open the passengers door and see if you get the low number...this may work since the rear interior light works...if it does then remove the door switch on the drivers side and hook the red lead to it as well....if you get the low number then the wire is ok and the switch ground is not good or the switch isn't working...if you don't get the low number then the ground wire from the bulb socket to the switch ground is open...see...easy stuff...im me if you need me to talk you thru this.


Thank you so much! I do have a multimeter though, as luck would have it, the 9v battery is dead so I get to buy another before I can do the testing. I'm stuck with going to a birthday party tonight with fine seafood and wine... darn it. I gotta drink great wine tonight. Tongue
 
Anyway. Just one more tidbit for you. I ran the ground to the housing surrounding each of the pin switches to see if the light would go on. Nope. Nuthin. I'm really starting to think the pin switches are either bad or they're not making adequate contact with the bird cage.
 
Anyway, I truly appreciate your instructions. I'm accustomed to being something of an expert in my field and it is both humbling and exciting to be learning about this old Vette. People like you make it a lot more fun because I don't feel like the Lone Ranger.
 
This old Vette was pretty badly mistreated as of late. It is a convertible but spent some time being stored outdoors. Ouch! SO the seats were horrible and the carpet was worse. Mouse nest in the jack compartment. Lacquer checked paint... looked like I expect to look in another 30 years. Wink Bad brake booster. Terrible door panels. Gauge bezel scratched and paint falling off. Door hardware scratched and worn. All emblems faded and worn. No courtesy lights working but the instrument panel lights do work. Clock, of course, not working. Goodyear Eagle tires that were rotting. Steering box that was beyond shot. You didn't drive this car... you influenced it! Shocks? Right.  Cancer in the windshield header. That's the bad news.
 
Good news? The prior owner was into engines and trannies. So the engine was rebuilt 5,000 miles ago and it runs like a top. Almost no vibration at all. But snaps your head back when it hits 2,000 rpm. Supposedly this old 350 develops 325 to 350 HP at the wheels. I believe it. The TH 400 tranny is solid and he even put in a tranny pan with cooling tubes. It is a fun car to drive.
 
The interior now looks and smells new. New Cooper Cobra tires. New shocks. New brake booster and master cylinder. New steering box. New seat covers and foam. New carpet. Reconditioned gauge bezel and door hardware. Running low on cash but the paint job and a little body work is coming. Then it's on to the long picking away at it phase. That will be my retirement activity.
 
I can do most of this work. But the electrical is something that dumbfounds me and always did. Even when I was doing tune ups and brake jobs back in the 70's the electrical was something we contracted out. So I'm actually excited to learn about it. Thanks for helping!


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