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1/26/04 10:11am - Original Message: 'How often do you 'do it'?'
Eric76
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, - Canada

Vette(s):
1976, custom paint, chrome headers/side pipes, front/rear spoilers, dual side sport mirrors, bubble tail light conversion

Joined: 9/3/2003
Posts: 431
This is directed to those people in the states where winter has hit and it's COLD!

I know that many others like myself have stored their C3's for the winter. While I'm not driving mine, I do make sure to start it and get it up to (almost) running temp. I do it about every 2-3 weeks.

I'm wondering how often others who have parked their C3's start them?
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1/26/04 10:56am - Reply: 'How often do you 'do it'?'
Gunslinger
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Frederick, MD - USA

Vette(s):
1969 convertible L71 427/435 4-speed black interior

Joined: 9/8/2003
Posts: 3398
I had both of mine running about two weeks ago. I just had my new garage finished and moved the Vettes from the attached garage to the new detached one. I know the rule of thumb where unless you plan on putting at least 25 miles on the car so all the moisture and contaminants can get burned out of the engine and exhaust system you shouldn't start them. What I did do was make sure each car started OK and let them warm to operating temperature before shutting them down. That was the first either had been started since November.

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Poet...Mystic...Soldier of Fortune. As always...self-absorbed, adversarial, c o c k y and in general a malcontent.

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1/26/04 11:36am - Reply: 'How often do you 'do it'?'
Ms.Mick73Vette
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DENVER, CO - USA

Vette(s):
1973 T-Top, Modified SB, Auto

Joined: 12/28/2003
Posts: 103
 Gunslinger said: I know the rule of thumb where unless you plan on putting at least 25 miles on the car so all the moisture and contaminants can get burned out of the engine and exhaust system you shouldn't start them.  


Really? Gosh, I didn't know that. So starting once a week and taking around the block is doing more harm than if left sitting?

Mickey
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1/26/04 12:30pm - Reply: 'How often do you 'do it'?'
Eric76
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, - Canada

Vette(s):
1976, custom paint, chrome headers/side pipes, front/rear spoilers, dual side sport mirrors, bubble tail light conversion

Joined: 9/3/2003
Posts: 431
Wow - I find that very interesting as well! What about the battery? My experience is that the cold will drain it. I was under the impression that starting it once every 2-3 weeks up to running temp was not only good for the internals, but also kept the battery charged as well. |headscratch|

____________________________________
1976, custom paint, Hooker Hdrs, front/real pace car spoilers, bubble tail light conversion, dual sport mirrors

BBM PIN: 2263EB03

Click to see my 76!

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1/26/04 12:44pm - Reply: 'How often do you 'do it'?'
Gunslinger
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Frederick, MD - USA

Vette(s):
1969 convertible L71 427/435 4-speed black interior

Joined: 9/8/2003
Posts: 3398
I don't mean to scare anyone about that, but it is an old "rule of thumb" with cars. Moisture builds up in the engine and exhaust system, as well as acids and other contaminants that normally get burned up as the engine heats up and is driven. If the car isn't driven at least to the point where these contaminants burn up, they can settle in the muffler, etc., and cause premature rust-out.

This may be a lesser problem now than in days past due to better quality exhaust systems now, better quality oils, etc., but the potential is still there.

The cold will drain the battery eventually, as it will eventually in any weather. If you can't start and run the car enough to burn off the contaminants, you can either unhook the battery to eliminate current drain, or keep a trickle charger on it to keep it charged.

Again, this is not a big problem by any means. Look at how many cars here have been left sitting for years and with a little care, have been started and run with little if any problems. This more a preventive thing than anything.

This winter has been more a pain than normal here in Maryland (today being a fine example), and my two Corvettes (garaged) and Dodge Charger (which sat outside) started fine two weeks ago after sitting since October/November. It took a bit of cranking since they're all carbureted but they started and ran OK so I could move them to my new garage built for them. I just let them run up to normal operating temperature for several minutes before shutting them off.

____________________________________
Poet...Mystic...Soldier of Fortune. As always...self-absorbed, adversarial, c o c k y and in general a malcontent.

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1/26/04 1:22pm - Reply: 'How often do you 'do it'?'
Ron 78 Lifetime Member
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BINGHAMTON, NY - USA

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Joined: 7/19/2003
Posts: 3805
I've been starting my 78 up every other week end since I parked it in the garage in mid november,I let it run 15 minutes each time.It always fires right up,a lot better than my Olds cutlass wagon has lately with the 0 and below weather we've been having in Up State New York the last couple of weeks,the olds got evicted from it's spot in the garage when I got the Vette a couple of years ago |frown|

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1/26/04 2:26pm - Reply: 'How often do you 'do it'?'
Norsky Lifetime Member
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Twin Lakes, CO - USA

Vette(s):
SOLD - "The Toy" - 1970 Convertible
SOLD - "The Beast" - 1990 ZR-1 (#682)
"BLKBRRD" - 1978 Trans Am, 400ci/285hp, 4 spd, Black w/black interior, Hurst t-tops

Joined: 1/23/2002
Posts: 6712
For the past three years "The Toy" has been stored 'off-site' so the bride's vehicle can occupy the single car garage we currently have. So it gets shutdown in Novemeber, the battery pulled (a requirement of the storage facility) and stored in the basement until spring.

A couple of days before going to retrieve "The Toy" I put a charger on the battery to make sure it has a full charge. After hooking it up I turn the engine over a bit with the 'kill switch' engaged to get some oil pumped up and around, then pump the gas a couple of times, disengage the 'kill switch', turn the key again and start smilin' as life is good again...!!! |biggrin| |biggrin| |biggrin|

Come on spring...!!!

____________________________________
Jim Olson 

"The Toys"...!!!  Save the Wave!
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1/26/04 2:29pm - Reply: 'How often do you 'do it'?'
82CE
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Sterling Heights, MI - USA

Vette(s):
1982 Collector Edition, color is silver/beige.

Joined: 11/13/2003
Posts: 110
To All:

Every atricle that I have read regarding storing for the Winter, all of them basically make the same points:

1. Raise the vehicle off of the ground to avoid "flat spots" on the tires.

2. Place some desicent bags in the interior to absorb any moisture or odors in the air. These are bags you see when you purchase electronic equipment. All of the parts vendors sell them.

3. Place a moisture barrier i.e. plastic sheets etc. between your car and the cold concrete floor, if not a heated garage.

4. Disconnect the battery to prevent power drain due to the weather, especially for older batteries, and to prevent power loss due to low current drain. This is common due to the age of these vehicles and sometimes due to the condition of the wiring.

5. I also keep the tank full to minimize condensation and add some fuel stablizer to keep the gas in good condition.

Mike

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Mike
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1/26/04 2:54pm - Reply: 'How often do you 'do it'?'
NVMY76
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Olney, MD - USA

Vette(s):
1976 Brown with Buckskin Interior. I bought her on 9/15/03 and just received it on OCT 1st 2003!! It needs interior work, and some things under the hood, but I am so excited! Just waiting for Summer of 2004 to totally show it off.

Joined: 10/1/2003
Posts: 165
Hey...
I just wanted to jum in here. My car is parked outside |ohwell| on the driveway, but under a very nice car cover. I do however get my hubby and we un-cover her and start her up every few weeks. I just want to be sure all is ok!!!! |thumb|

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|IMG|http://www.mustangmods.com/data/10435/vette_bike_bannerb.jpg|/IMG| 1976 L-48, 1999 Suzuki GZ250 Suzanne Check out my webpage and see all the goodies |URL|http://www.cardomain.com/id/1funvet |/URL|
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1/26/04 5:25pm - Reply: 'How often do you 'do it'?'
kstyer Lifetime Member
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CUYAHOGA FALLS, OH - USA

Vette(s):
1975 C3 Red, T-Tops, Black Interior. All I need is time and money! Getting there!

Joined: 12/2/2003
Posts: 6410
One of the biggest things about start and shut down is the moisture in the engine itself. When fully warmed up the PCV will purge the moisture and acid from the engine. It will also remove gas and gas fumes. The gas will be in the oil due to very rich running conditions with the choke on. If the car is started several times without fully warming up, the fuel, water, and resulting acids build up in the engine and ruin the engine oil. The water and acid are what do engine damage. Starting it once with out a good warm up is fine. Several times will start to damage internal components. If the car is warmed up, running it for a while, even at idle, will purge everything. Just getting it warm is not enough. It takes time to evaporate and purge the contaminates. Driving is better due to increased flow of everything. But a good warm up AND run time is okay. Repeated warmups without run time is the problem. Run time also dries out the exhaust system. Everytime you shut down a hot engine you build moisture in the exhaust due to condensation. If it's not dried out it just builds more water, and rust the exhaust from the inside out. Again, driving dries it out faster due to increased heat and flow.

So, start it and warm it up, AND run it for a while. If you shut it off, pull the dipstick. Smell the oil for gas or acid in the oil. If you suspect anything, restart and run it some more. If the car is inside you can go several months without starting. If it's outside I would like to see at least once a month. It's not the temp, it's the moisture.

Mine is outside under a car cover, sitting on plastic, and gets started about once a month then runs for about 45 minutes. I do rev up the engine once in a while. If you are not willing to let it run for while after warmup, don't start it. I should also say before I bought it, my car sat in an inside cold storage area for 5 years without being started. I took my time and care starting it, and made sure I had oil circulating in the engine before starting. It's fine.

Ken Styer

____________________________________
On the "Tail of the Dragon"
(some day, no strike that, October 2008 it turned red, still in progress!)

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1/26/04 6:00pm - Reply: 'How often do you 'do it'?'
Big Fish
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Joined: 12/16/2003
Posts: 630
Starting the car in the cold is probably the worst thing you can do to it. Fill the tank, clean it up good (detracts mice), put it on jacks if you want, but over-inflating the tires by about 5 pounds will do nearly as much to prevent flat spots. Pull the battery out and store it inside for the winter. Your car will be just fine, and won't have all the moisture related problems from starting it.
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1/26/04 6:20pm - Reply: 'How often do you 'do it'?'
jedlevine
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West Newbury, MA - USA

Vette(s):
1975 Coupe NOM 350: Edelbrock heads,QJet clone, Performer manifold & cam, gear drive and water pump; MSD ProBillet dist and 6A box, Comp rollers, Hedman headers into true duals, Magnaflow cans,TH400, TT2's, 3.70RA

Joined: 3/3/2003
Posts: 89
My 75 is parked outside, in her Noah cover, with the battery disconnected, as she has been every winter for the past three years. Some SeaFoam and occasionally Marvel Mystery Oil stabilize the fuel and give some lube adhesion to the cylinder walls. Running synthetic oil, too ... with no leaks. When weather permits (i.e. dry and temp mid 20's or above) we go road-trippin ---- never less than 25 miles. All that engine heat that we hate in the summer is "climate control" in the winter. Oh yeah, on the advice of a body shop supply guy, a few strategically place Downy dryer sheets discourage the critters who'd love to bed down in that nice warm engine house.

Current airtemp in the neighborhood: A balmy 16 degrees, the warmest it's been in five + days.

|saluteflag|
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1/26/04 8:02pm - Reply: 'How often do you 'do it'?'
mkapp7879
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Joined: 10/21/2003
Posts: 1220
I agree with BigFish, cold starts are murder on the motor. I usually wait as long as possible before putting my Vettes "up" for the winter, usually the end of November. They go up on jackstands, batterys removed and stored in the basement. I also sprung for Car Capsules, these things are great. Constant airflow through the "bubble" keeps any condensation from forming on anything inside. No need for the drypacks. And they stay totally dustfree. I also drain the oil, but I refill only the oil filter at this time. The rest of the oil gets poured in when ready for startup come April. Half through one valve cover and the rest through the other side. It would just sit in the bottom of the pan, anyway. This way I feel it actually lubricates something at startup. My 79 I pull the plugs and squirt a little motor oil in the holes. Only the 79 because it's so easy with the headers and I've been doing it for 20 years now. The others are a pain so I don't. They always start right up, sometimes quicker than I want! Mike PS. Anyone in the Chicago area, I'm 20 miles south, I have storage available if anyone in need.

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1/26/04 9:00pm - Reply: 'How often do you 'do it'?'
Eric76
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, - Canada

Vette(s):
1976, custom paint, chrome headers/side pipes, front/rear spoilers, dual side sport mirrors, bubble tail light conversion

Joined: 9/3/2003
Posts: 431
Cool - I'm glad I asked this question as I feel I've been enlightened from the responses here. My 76 is parked and covered in an indoor garage that's about 30min from where I live so not having to make that trip in the frigid weather here will be nice. I'll just go pull the battery and wait until spring.

Thanks for all the great input! |thumb|

As for "flat-spotting" of the tires, just how long in one position does it take for tires to flat-spot? I don't have the ability to raise it off the tires. I may have to go with the extra 5lbs of air suggestion. Just wondering though - 1 month? 5 months? (an approximation would be helpful).

____________________________________
1976, custom paint, Hooker Hdrs, front/real pace car spoilers, bubble tail light conversion, dual sport mirrors

BBM PIN: 2263EB03

Click to see my 76!

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1/26/04 10:12pm - Reply: 'How often do you 'do it'?'
kstyer Lifetime Member
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CUYAHOGA FALLS, OH - USA

Vette(s):
1975 C3 Red, T-Tops, Black Interior. All I need is time and money! Getting there!

Joined: 12/2/2003
Posts: 6410
Flat spotting is not near the problem with radials as it was with bias tires. Most, not all, radials will recover from flat spots after driving. Steel belted and nylon are the worse offenders. They may be annoying at first, then strighten out. For the ones that won't, how long depends on the tire construction and brand. Some bias nylon tires will flat spot in a couple of weeks. My car sat 5 years on the tires and rolled fine when I picked it up. I need to replace them due to dry rot, but they roll okay. The extra air does help.

Ken Styer

____________________________________
On the "Tail of the Dragon"
(some day, no strike that, October 2008 it turned red, still in progress!)

(click either image to see a bigger version)
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1/26/04 10:59pm - Reply: 'How often do you 'do it'?'
Aegisfang
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Syracuse, NY - USA

Vette(s):
...

Joined: 8/1/2003
Posts: 693
This is our second year storing Ian and he sits in our unheated garage on plastic and a rug, battery unhooked and full tank of gas with stablizer in it. Last spring he started right up no problem and we''ll see about this spring too. I have stored my bike for many more years, tried taking out the battery and leaving it in. It drained more out of it. Also have tried both draining the gas and leaving a full tank with stablizer it has started both ways the same , no problems, Only time the battery completely drained was when it was in my basement. go figure.
|cheers|

____________________________________
Bob    

Conner, 76 L82
Ian, 78 L48

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1/27/04 12:46am - Reply: 'How often do you 'do it'?'
Norsky Lifetime Member
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Twin Lakes, CO - USA

Vette(s):
SOLD - "The Toy" - 1970 Convertible
SOLD - "The Beast" - 1990 ZR-1 (#682)
"BLKBRRD" - 1978 Trans Am, 400ci/285hp, 4 spd, Black w/black interior, Hurst t-tops

Joined: 1/23/2002
Posts: 6712
The 'off-site' storage facility that "The Toy" is in is not heated, but ventiliated and rodent free. It is covered and also on a sheet of plastic.

I pump the tires up to 50 psi and haven't had any problems with flat spotting of the tires. It usually goes into the facility in mid to late November and comes out early in April.

_________________________________

Jim O.
Save the Wave...!!!
|wavey|

____________________________________
Jim Olson 

"The Toys"...!!!  Save the Wave!
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1/27/04 7:46am - Reply: 'How often do you 'do it'?'
Redwingvette Lifetime Member
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Waterford, MI - USA

Vette(s):
1973 Red coupe

Joined: 9/13/2002
Posts: 1674
I fog the motor and remove the battery. Then I put it on tire dollies, spread plastic under it, push it to the back of the garage, cover it, and pout every time I have to open the garage door and see it just sitting there. |laugh|

____________________________________
Brian - NCM Lifetime Member
          
73 coupe L48, Flat-top pistons, Performer RPM Heads, Crane Cam and roller rockers, Holley 650 vac sec. Performer intake,
3.55 gear BTO 200-4R trans,
Leather seats, F-body seatbelts, Pioneer CD player
Magnaflow Exhuast System
Dewitt radiator and dual electric fans
Borgeson Steering box
Click here for Brian's Home Page 



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1/27/04 6:03pm - Reply: 'How often do you 'do it'?'
Eric76
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, - Canada

Vette(s):
1976, custom paint, chrome headers/side pipes, front/rear spoilers, dual side sport mirrors, bubble tail light conversion

Joined: 9/3/2003
Posts: 431
 Redwingvette said: I fog the motor ... 


Please explain? |headscratch| I'm not familiar with this term.

____________________________________
1976, custom paint, Hooker Hdrs, front/real pace car spoilers, bubble tail light conversion, dual sport mirrors

BBM PIN: 2263EB03

Click to see my 76!

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1/27/04 7:30pm - Reply: 'How often do you 'do it'?'
gmurray
Former Member
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SOUTHWICK, MA - USA

Vette(s):
1975, L-48 coupe, 4-speed, light mods

Joined: 6/26/2003
Posts: 336
I normally wait for a day when the temp is above freezing, and there isn't any snow on the street. I keep her in a garage with the battery disconnected, and plastic under her. On those days that are okay, I will open the door, start her up and let her warm up for 30 min. then I will take her for a short drive up and down my street. Of course after that I clean her really good to get any salt or other crap off, and put her away. I always make sure that she is warmed up enough to burn off any bad stuff.
Glenn

____________________________________
Glenn's Bright Blue 75 T-Top
L48, 4 Speed, Dual Exhaust
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