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11/12/10 1:45pm - Original Message: '5 Speed Transmission tips'
jp75vette
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Bloomfield Hills, MI - USA

Vette(s):
1975 Corvette coupe, 4 speed manual, 383 ci 9.5:1,Edelbrock dual plane Air Gap intake, Alum Heads,Comp Cam, roller Rockers, PS,PB,Tilt

Joined: 6/29/2008
Posts: 199

I'm connected Wifi while flying home so lots of time to think.

While I have the engine out I'm thinking of converting to a 5 speed. Any tips? I have done some research on Tremac and Keisler. I see that on a standard transmission car; you need to cut the cross member and install a bolt in one.
 
The 4 speed BW Super T10 that I have is rated at 250 ft-pounds of torque and the engine puts out 350 plus; so the transmission is the weak link right now.
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11/13/10 9:12am - Reply: '5 Speed Transmission tips'
stingrayjim jr Lifetime Member
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SHELBYVILLE, TN - USA

Vette(s):
1976 L48 auto

1978 L82 4speed

1994 LT1 6speed

Joined: 7/5/2002
Posts: 3937
Hi,  well what i can tell you from my experience with my 78, i did install a 5 speed keisler(tremec transmission with keisler's shifter, which now tremec has an offset shifter that should work if you go that route). The crossmember was a welded in one, so, first i tried the included instructions of putting in the tranny in much the same manner as the 4 speed(was "suppose" to be a direct bolt in with the directions of loosening the motor mounts and tilting the motor downward at the flywheel).. well, that didn't exactly work for me.. i ended up cutting the crossmember about 6 to 8 inches in from the frame, then taking the "center" piece and having 3 inch angle welded onto it, extended from the ends about 6 inches so i could drill two holes horizontally, and one vertically to bolt the "center" back to the welded crossmember pieces still on the car.  Made a world of difference, especially about 6 months later when a roll pin came out of the shifter and all i had was 3 and 4 gear(i contacted keisler about it after the 2nd time it happened, they sent me a replacement roll pin that has an e-clip, so i guess i was not the only one with that issue, and no doubt they've got it corrected), with the modified crossmember, i had the transmission out in about 40 minutes.. whereas if i had done it according to kiesler, i'd been looking at a little bit longer time(having to loosen or remove motor mounts, and possibly the fan so it wouldn't get into the radiator).... there are a few other members here that has converted to 5 speeds too... don't exactly remember how they went about it(but i think one of them already had a removable crossmember and not a welded one)...

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StingrayJim
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Stingray's '76                             StingrayJr's '78                           Lil Red '94

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11/13/10 11:01am - Reply: '5 Speed Transmission tips'
philip
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Marana, AZ - USA

Vette(s):
1982 Silver Blue

Joined: 4/8/2010
Posts: 104
The difference in shifting is night and day. The BW, Muncie and Richmond transmissions with the external linkage have to be guided through the nuetral gate. The Tremec only needs the shifter pulled straight back or pushed forward. If you try to shift like with your ST10 it will not work well. It only takes a few shifts to get the feel for it and you will absolutely love it. Actually you will have it mastered before the car comes off the jack stands. Tremec requires about 10 minutes of shifting through the gears under no load prior to driving. I ran mine easy doing a lot of shifting for 500 miles as per installation and break in instructions before hammering on it. With about 5000 miles on it now it is smooth and quiet,  do not miss my Muncie at all, especially when fueling upWink

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1977 Nova 1982 Corvette   

The Toy Box
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11/13/10 11:27am - Reply: '5 Speed Transmission tips'
Sarge81 Lifetime Member
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WEST SENECA, NY - USA

Vette(s):
1981 Blue Ice Met. w/pearl ghost flames TKO500 5speed. LS1 Swap 3.45 Dana 44.

Joined: 12/3/2001
Posts: 2376
I put one in the '81 a few years ago. My crossmember is a bolt in one. I think most '80-'82's were bolt in. The crossmember doesn't have the 2 holes in it for the exhaust pipes to pass thru.

It was the best investment I did for my car. The old T-10 4 speed was weak. I cracked mine in two during a hard launch.  Keisler is coming out with a RS 600 overdrive transmission soon. It isn't the Mexican Tremec. You may want to contact them and find out about the details with this transmission.


____________________________________

GEN III 5.7L "LS6" Engine swap
TKO500 5 spd.
3.54 Dana 44
'69 "N11" Sidepipes
Borgeson Steering Box
Born 8/1981
Sequence #3975




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11/13/10 3:21pm - Reply: '5 Speed Transmission tips'
VetteCountry Lifetime Member
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Belvidere, IL - USA

Vette(s):
1977 Black T-Top ZZ4 5Sp 16in Wheels


Joined: 10/24/2004
Posts: 399
I installed a Keisler 5sp in 2004, best thing I did. As Darrell said, stay with Keisler because Tremec moved its plant to Mexico! Anyhow, after 2 times of pulling the trans with the cross member in. Like Jimmy, I cut the cross member and used 4 pieces of 3"/ 4"/1/4" flat steel and drilled 3/8" holes [4] and welded to the c/m. I did this because I installed the hydraulic throw out bearing, it makes a soft and easy peddle.  The exhaust is flanged at the headers and cut behind the c/m. I had end expanded to fit over other pipe and use S/S bands. Just for thouht, G-Force makes a C/M for C-3.

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11/14/10 5:42pm - Reply: '5 Speed Transmission tips'
daveo76
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Vancouver, WA - USA

Vette(s):
1976 Silver/Firethorn. L48, 4spd. Original 2 bolt, vortec heads, 9.4:1 CR, Speed Pro Cam: 224/224@0.050, 112 LSA, Eagle Steel Crank.

Joined: 8/25/2005
Posts: 831
Surprised about the comments on the BW T-10 being a "weak link".  Shocked  Isn't this the same tranny that many (non-GM) muscle cars used in the 60's and early 70's?  My 10 year plan involves a serious motor upgrade or rebuild (I'd say 300 - 350 HP) but that plan also included keeping and/or rebuilding the four speed  -- mostly just due to cost.  Maybe I'll need to rethink that plan?  Comments from anyone with a upgraded motor that's still running a stock T-10?  Other alternatives such as an upgrade rebuild or swapping in a Muncie?  

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1976 Silver/Firethorn.  L48, 4spd.  Original 2 bolt, vortec heads, 9.4:1 CR, Speed Pro Cam: 224/224@0.050, 112 LSA, Eagle Steel Crank.
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11/14/10 11:39pm - Reply: '5 Speed Transmission tips'
jp75vette
Former Member
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Bloomfield Hills, MI - USA

Vette(s):
1975 Corvette coupe, 4 speed manual, 383 ci 9.5:1,Edelbrock dual plane Air Gap intake, Alum Heads,Comp Cam, roller Rockers, PS,PB,Tilt

Joined: 6/29/2008
Posts: 199
My transmission is not the original. It was in a 1982 Camaro. I had the transmission looked at and the rebuild guy says its only rated at 250 ft-pounds of torque.

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11/15/10 1:32am - Reply: '5 Speed Transmission tips'
Warp2
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Henderson, NV - USA

Vette(s):
1982 Coupe,ZZ383/425HP,Tremec 5 Speed, 354 Dana,VBP Pro Comp dual Mount Suspension, Steeroids Rack & Pinion. Affiliation: Yakima Valley Vettes

Joined: 11/16/2007
Posts: 48
I converted my 82 from a 200 HP Crossfire with maybe 200 ft LBS of torque, and a 700R4 26 spline, the first year GM used that tranny. I put in a GMPP 383/425HP with a Tremec TKO 600 behind it. To answer your question about torque, I almost went with the TKO 500, but in checking with Kessler,(which by the way i think they are Ace's. Especially Richard in Tech.) i discovered that the 500 was only rated up to 425 ft lbs. GMPP's 383/425 is rated at 460 ft lbs at 5K RPM. So, long story short i went with the 600 which is rated at 650 ft lbs. 
I did my breakin pretty much like "philip" did. It's pretty stiff for about 500 miles but the more you use it the silkier it gets. Wishing you the best on your endeavor. 


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warp 2
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11/20/10 10:30am - Reply: '5 Speed Transmission tips'
OH6A Lifetime Member
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Cadiz, KY - USA

Vette(s):
64 Convertible 73 Coupe 74 Convertible 63 Corvair Spyder Convertible

Joined: 8/26/2002
Posts: 244
I have two of the Keisler products.  Both are great.  The first is the TKO 500 and it is in the 73 which has a bolt in cross member.  Altered the mount just a bit and all is good.  Great choice.  The second is their latest 5 speed and it is in the 74, which has a welded in cross member.  They recommended engine removal to install the new transmission and the advice was good.  That one works well also.  Both are great products and help with fuel consumption.  Highly recommend either 5 speed.  Keisler puts out good stuff; customer service is outstanding.

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2/4/11 2:20pm - Reply: '5 Speed Transmission tips'
1VET2NV
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Vette(s):
1982 Collector Edition 400 HP ZZ4 and 5 Speed TKO500. 3.54 Rear

Joined: 12/17/2010
Posts: 21
Curious.    I have an 82 that I'm installing a ZZ4, with a MassFlo Direct Injection system.  Headers and new Aluminum radiator.  I chose the ZZ4 and bought the the serp kit.  If I went with the ZZ383, I had concerns with the height of the intake.  did that cause any issue for you?
 
I've changed the pedals with the Keisler Kit components and find that the brake pedal, when connected to the booster is significantly lower that the clutch pedal.  Same clutch pedal is not hooked up yet to linkage, just at the top of the stroke and against the rubber bumper.  Did you have the same thing?  Could it be that once the clutch linkage is in and adjusted the pedals are at the same height?
 
Just today, I compared the original pedal to the new pedal and find they both are the same shape.
 
Again, curious if you found the same issue?
 
if you could, please let me know.
 
 
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2/4/11 5:13pm - Reply: '5 Speed Transmission tips'
Warp2
Former Member
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Henderson, NV - USA

Vette(s):
1982 Coupe,ZZ383/425HP,Tremec 5 Speed, 354 Dana,VBP Pro Comp dual Mount Suspension, Steeroids Rack & Pinion. Affiliation: Yakima Valley Vettes

Joined: 11/16/2007
Posts: 48
Congrats on making the conversion. You will get the best looking C3,(in my opinion), with the performance of the earlier C3s.
 
As for the intake question. Widen the whole in the lower ductwork where the old xfire air cleaners used to get thier air to accept the four barrel air cleaner. You must use K&N top and side flow air cleaner to take advantage of the poor mans Ram Air built into the 82's hood.
 
As far as the pedals go, it sounds very strange. You should have recieved from Kessler one unit, a pretty square unit with a cross rod held in by C clips at both ends. The brake and clutch pedal hang from this rod, they are the same length. After you remove the old brake pedal, carefuly removing the brake light and neutral safety switch the combo unit will bolt into threaded holes in the birdcage that are in all C3s .
 
If you didn't recieve the proper brake/clutch unit call kessler at 865 609-8187 ask for Richard in Tech. extension 201. He is a great guy,
 
Call me at 509 965-6275 and i'll explain a few tricks for getting everything to line up, Or PM me your number and i will call you.
Either way please let me know how the Mass Flow works out for you, I am intriqued by that set up. 
 
Mark        


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warp 2
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2/4/11 5:13pm - Reply: '5 Speed Transmission tips'
OH6A Lifetime Member
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Cadiz, KY - USA

Vette(s):
64 Convertible 73 Coupe 74 Convertible 63 Corvair Spyder Convertible

Joined: 8/26/2002
Posts: 244
The brake pedal on cars with power brakes is always closer to the floor than cars without power brakes.

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C3VR Life Member #4
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2/4/11 5:54pm - Reply: '5 Speed Transmission tips'
Warp2
Former Member
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Henderson, NV - USA

Vette(s):
1982 Coupe,ZZ383/425HP,Tremec 5 Speed, 354 Dana,VBP Pro Comp dual Mount Suspension, Steeroids Rack & Pinion. Affiliation: Yakima Valley Vettes

Joined: 11/16/2007
Posts: 48
Ok, OH6A just pointed out that maybe you are talking from the floor and not the length from the connecting rod. Sorry for the confusion, i didn't read your question thouroughly enough. He is right, though the threaded rod they sent you in the kit gives you some height adjustment. 

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warp 2
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2/19/11 5:45pm - Reply: '5 Speed Transmission tips'
1VET2NV
Former Member
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Vette(s):
1982 Collector Edition 400 HP ZZ4 and 5 Speed TKO500. 3.54 Rear

Joined: 12/17/2010
Posts: 21

The ZZ4 install is proceeding. 

I've run into a few issues that will need some time to sort out.
 
1.  The new Power Steering Pump on the Serp set up has the return hose coming in from the top.  Did you find a molded 3/8" hose to then crimp on to the metal tube?
 
2.  When hooking up the AC Compressor fitting on the back, I'm finding that the hose assembly wants to hit (near the bottom) the Serp bracket that holds the Compressor. 
 
3.  Any suggestions on how to wire the old Alt. Wires into the new Alt harness?
 
4.  I had to remove the idler pulley just below the AC Compressor, as it hit the A-Arm.  Did you do the same?
 
As always thanks for the help
 
Drake
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2/19/11 10:56pm - Reply: '5 Speed Transmission tips'
Sarge81 Lifetime Member
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WEST SENECA, NY - USA

Vette(s):
1981 Blue Ice Met. w/pearl ghost flames TKO500 5speed. LS1 Swap 3.45 Dana 44.

Joined: 12/3/2001
Posts: 2376
[QUOTE=1VET2NV]

The ZZ4 install is proceeding. 

I've run into a few issues that will need some time to sort out.
 
1.  The new Power Steering Pump on the Serp set up has the return hose coming in from the top.  Did you find a molded 3/8" hose to then crimp on to the metal tube?
 
2.  When hooking up the AC Compressor fitting on the back, I'm finding that the hose assembly wants to hit (near the bottom) the Serp bracket that holds the Compressor. 
 
3.  Any suggestions on how to wire the old Alt. Wires into the new Alt harness?
 
4.  I had to remove the idler pulley just below the AC Compressor, as it hit the A-Arm.  Did you do the same?
 
As always thanks for the help
 
Drake
[/QUOTE]

I did a GM serpentine kit on a friend of mines '80 L82 a couple years ago and I remember some of the pitfalls I encountered.

The idler pulley problem hitting the A-Frame: I inverted the pulley bracket. I had to grind away some of the material around the bolt hole ears so that it would fit into the A/C bracket and then found a grooved pulley to replace the smooth pulley. This simply moved the pulley from the outside of the belt to the inside of the belt offering the same amount of support to the serpentine belt. I don't remember or have the part numbers. But the pulley was a Dayco unit from NAPA.

The alternator wiring was solved by using a pigtail with the resistor built in. Another NAPA Echlin part.

The power steering hose was a bit tricky. I had to get the hose to form a large gentle bend. I wasn't happy with it but it worked. My friend moved down to Georgia so I never got a chance to do something better with that.

I didn't have a problem with the A/C lines other than the one aluminum section of the line was rubbing the hood slightly. I gently massaged the line til I gained a little bit of clearance.

If I find the part numbers for the pulley and the wiring harness connector I'll PM them to you.




____________________________________

GEN III 5.7L "LS6" Engine swap
TKO500 5 spd.
3.54 Dana 44
'69 "N11" Sidepipes
Borgeson Steering Box
Born 8/1981
Sequence #3975




Click here to see more pics of my Vette on CarDomain.


Lifetime Member #26
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2/20/11 10:58am - Reply: '5 Speed Transmission tips'
1VET2NV
Former Member
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Vette(s):
1982 Collector Edition 400 HP ZZ4 and 5 Speed TKO500. 3.54 Rear

Joined: 12/17/2010
Posts: 21
I really apprieciate the help.
 
Any data or pictures on the Alt hook up or mods to the pulley would help a lot.
 
I'm hoping to find a tight 180 3/8" tube that I can use for the connection on the PS line.
 
Drake
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