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7/1/10 12:46am - Original Message: '700r4 issue'
Bobbi's78 Lifetime Member
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Coatesville, PA - USA

Vette(s):
1978 Silver Anniversary Paint w/Mahogany Interior

Joined: 3/17/2007
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Hello all-
Took the little lady (1978 L-82) to a local tranny shop (with recommendations) to have a rebuilt 700r4 installed.   Got her back, but she's not happy.  First day she ran like a dream, next day same thing, drove for 1 1/2 hours stopped for 15 mins & got back in...she wouldn't get out of her own way, then she wouldn't even shift out of 1st.  Trailered her back & they apologized.  After adjusting & test driving the car, no one ever went back & tightened the  throttle cable & it had come loose.  Got her back, ran great that night & next morning, then....similar problems (not as extreme), banging shifts and only 1st and 2nd this time.  Then like "magic" it started shifting fine.  We had read on several previous posts that the throttle arm or bracket  on the carb would need to be changed, as it would be too short. The person that did the work, said that wasn't necessary on the Quadrajet.  Is that correct?  Could that be the problem?  Or could it be dirt/debris hanging up the cable (explaining why it all of a sudden started working fine again)? (read that online too).  Any info/suggestions would be greatly appreciated.   Cry


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7/1/10 8:16am - Reply: '700r4 issue'
Adams' Apple Lifetime Member
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Duncanville, TX - USA

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#1-1974 L-48 4spd Cp Med Red Metallic/Black deluxe int w/AC/tilt/tele./p/w-p/b/ Am-Fm/map light National/Regional/Chapter NCRS "Top Flight" #2-1985 Bright Red/Carmine Cp.L-98/auto Member: NCRS, NCRS Texas, Corvette Legends of Texas

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Unless you have a Q-jet that was originally designed for use with the 700 or 2004R, the linkage geometry will not be correct, and it will never work properly.
It's more likely the TV(throttle valve) in the valve body is hanging/sticking at times, causing the shifts to be late. That happens a lot, since any small piece of doo-doo can hang the valve. Working the throttle moves the cable, which moves the linkage in the trans, which moves the valve, which will sometimes un-stick it. My guess is that the problem lies with the valve itself, rather than the cable, tho the cable does need to be set up correctly. You will need to get/fabricate an adapter bracket for the carb...there's really no way around that. That will solve the geometry issue.
 The only way to solve the hanging valve problem is by removing the valve body, cleaning it well, and installing a "helper" spring behind the throttle valve. There are a couple of different designs, and some come in "Shift Kits". I have seen some of these springs actually cause the valve to hang if they are not made/installed properly. I've also seen some valves get locked by drilling holes in the plate("shift kit") too large, which can hydraulically lock the valve down until the engine is shut off.
Don't know what the shop did to the trans, as far as "shift kitting" it, so it's hard to say, but my money is on the valve hanging up.


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7/1/10 10:59am - Reply: '700r4 issue'
VetteSpecialties
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Mounds View, MN - USA

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I bow to Joel's (ASE certified) knowledge about the inner workings of the transmission, but I can tell you from experience about the linkage.  Q-jets do not have a hole in the right place for the TV cable to mount.  You must drill a hole, or make a bracket with a hole, exactly 1 3/32 inch from the center of the throttle shaft, and centered for even travel.  Incorrect travel will burn up a 700r4 in a hurry.  It needs to be adjusted for firm shifts without banging, but still reach full valve opening at WOT at the carb.

I believe Bowties Overdrive sells a bracket that adds on to your Q-jet, or you can figure it out for yourself.

Larry


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7/1/10 1:04pm - Reply: '700r4 issue'
Adams' Apple Lifetime Member
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Duncanville, TX - USA

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#1-1974 L-48 4spd Cp Med Red Metallic/Black deluxe int w/AC/tilt/tele./p/w-p/b/ Am-Fm/map light National/Regional/Chapter NCRS "Top Flight" #2-1985 Bright Red/Carmine Cp.L-98/auto Member: NCRS, NCRS Texas, Corvette Legends of Texas

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Yep...there are, of course, Quads that DO have the correct set-ups for the TV cable....just not(factory) on a Corvette. So, in order to have one that is workable, you'd have to swap the carb.
Much easier to either fabricate, or purchase, an adapter for the carb. I have used the Bowtie kits a few times, and they work fine. You definitely have to positively identify the carb you have(by cast/part number) to get the Bowtie kit that will fit/work properly.
Adams' Apple2010-07-01 10:05:10

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7/5/10 9:31pm - Reply: '700r4 issue'
Bobbi's78 Lifetime Member
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Coatesville, PA - USA

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1978 Silver Anniversary Paint w/Mahogany Interior

Joined: 3/17/2007
Posts: 349
Joel & Larry:
 
Thanks for all the info...my husband is stopping by the shop tomorrow to hopefully get this resolved.  We were away, which is why I hadn't seen your replies till today.  Took her out today & ran very well, but still going to verify the quadrajet geometry issue.  I think the other problem may have been dirt in the valve, but he's going to talk to them about that too.
 
You guys are the best!Smile


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7/6/10 6:26pm - Reply: '700r4 issue'
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HOWELL, NJ - USA

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1979, Targa Blue (72 Color), Pace Car rear spoiler, L88 hood, Dark blue factory interior, 525HP 406, HD 700R4, 370 gears,Steeroids, composite rear spring, TT IIs wrapped in T/A Radials.

Joined: 5/18/2004
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How'd ya make out Bobbi?

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7/6/10 9:31pm - Reply: '700r4 issue'
Redwingvette Lifetime Member
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Waterford, MI - USA

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1973 Red coupe

Joined: 9/13/2002
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LOts of information on how to setup the TV cable can be found at http://bowtieoverdrives.com
They have the correct stuff to change your carb bracket to work with the transmission. If the TV cable is not setup correctlly the trans will not last.
Joel knows what he is talking about for sure!


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7/8/10 1:52am - Reply: '700r4 issue'
philip
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Marana, AZ - USA

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1982 Silver Blue

Joined: 4/8/2010
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The factory installed 700R4 in my 82 is like no other I have ever driven. First odd thing I noticed it can not be locked into first gear, why I do not know. Next it will allow the TCC to lock up in 2nd as well as 3rd and 4th. It is also the smoothest shifting 700 I have ever driven. whether you are at full throttle or just idling along it shifts perfect, GM built it different for the Corvette and I like the way it performs. 

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7/9/10 11:07pm - Reply: '700r4 issue'
Bobbi's78 Lifetime Member
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Coatesville, PA - USA

Vette(s):
1978 Silver Anniversary Paint w/Mahogany Interior

Joined: 3/17/2007
Posts: 349
Paul:
 
Ordered a bracket from Bowtie Overdrives - hopefully that will take care of the problem.  The shop is definitely standing behind their work & is willing to do whatever it takes to make it right.  They told Frank if they can't get the right geometry with this bracket, they'll get the lever off a Q-jet from a vehicle that was stock with the 700r4.  Running much better - I think Joel was right about the "doo-doo" in the valve.  They were under the impression they only needed a bracket for a Holley or Edelbrock, but when Frank went over the dims with them, they agreed the travel was too long (it's at 1.185 and should be between 1.09 and 1.11.  Haven't taken it out since Sunday since both back calipers blew.  Backside of the tires look like "spin-art".  Just put new guts in those tonight...converted to oring pistons, instead of seals.   I'll keep everyone posted on her "recovery".


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7/9/10 11:24pm - Reply: '700r4 issue'
Adams' Apple Lifetime Member
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Duncanville, TX - USA

Vette(s):
#1-1974 L-48 4spd Cp Med Red Metallic/Black deluxe int w/AC/tilt/tele./p/w-p/b/ Am-Fm/map light National/Regional/Chapter NCRS "Top Flight" #2-1985 Bright Red/Carmine Cp.L-98/auto Member: NCRS, NCRS Texas, Corvette Legends of Texas

Joined: 11/8/2003
Posts: 19449
'Bracket", or "Adapter"?

Look at the kit from BTO. The adapter is the gold part in the pic(it's three separate pieces that "sandwich" together to make the adapter). It comes in the kit, but I think you may be able to get just that part by itself. Again, identifying the carb is essential for getting the correct adapter.
Adams' Apple2010-07-09 20:25:08

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Joel Adams
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7/10/10 12:43pm - Reply: '700r4 issue'
lukesvette Lifetime Member
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HOWELL, NJ - USA

Vette(s):
1979, Targa Blue (72 Color), Pace Car rear spoiler, L88 hood, Dark blue factory interior, 525HP 406, HD 700R4, 370 gears,Steeroids, composite rear spring, TT IIs wrapped in T/A Radials.

Joined: 5/18/2004
Posts: 6804
I bought the entire linkage kit. BTO strongly recommends replacing the spring behind the TV valve with the one that comes with the kit as the spring pressure is supposedly built into the geometry with the rest of the kit...

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7/10/10 6:39pm - Reply: '700r4 issue'
Adams' Apple Lifetime Member
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Duncanville, TX - USA

Vette(s):
#1-1974 L-48 4spd Cp Med Red Metallic/Black deluxe int w/AC/tilt/tele./p/w-p/b/ Am-Fm/map light National/Regional/Chapter NCRS "Top Flight" #2-1985 Bright Red/Carmine Cp.L-98/auto Member: NCRS, NCRS Texas, Corvette Legends of Texas

Joined: 11/8/2003
Posts: 19449
I'm not sure I'd absolutely insist on using the BTO spring in the VB, tho in some cases, it may be needed. Fact is the only difference in the BTO spring and a stock spring is the length...the BTO spring is slightly longer than most stock 700 springs. The stock springs in Corvette/Camaro/Fireturd 700s are the same length. There are also shims that can be used to do the same thing. Most(not all) "Shift Kits" have an optional spring for the TV that is marginally longer, and a weeeee bit stouter. There are also several different diameter valves that the TV linkage works against, and changing the spring also changes the working pressure of the valve, in some cases causing late/early shifts no matter how you adjust the cable.
Then again, the cost of the BTO spring is not outrageous, so that's not really an issue, and you can change the springs out without removing the valve body. I've never used the BTO spring in the VB, so I can't really say for sure what the difference might be, operationally. On the ones I've used the carb adapters on, they worked just fine without the BTO spring. I guess they are just really covering their bo-bos, in case some goober burns his new trans up using their kits. The longer spring will help the trans tolerate a mis-adjusted cable mo better.


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Joel Adams
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