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10/11/11 8:44am - Original Message: 'New clutch'
danascar
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Germansville, PA - USA

Vette(s):
1974 Coupe 358ci 4 speed Black w/Medium Saddle interior w/79 custom leather seats

Joined: 1/28/2010
Posts: 763

Did the old fashioned research and found a few things but I need some clarification on a few points. Here's the issue: installed a new McCleod clutch kit and when testing found that it made a rumblimg sound when depressing clutch pedal and would not even come close to working, could not get in any gear with out grinding gears bad. Have adjustment rod adusted all the way out as far as possible and still no go. Read where Joel says there are 2 sizes of T/O bearings. Joel, do you have numbers for these bearings and could this be the problem? The old clutch had to be adjusted all the way out to the end of the rod also to get the freeplay in pedal and the T/O bearings new and old are the same. Also read that the fork and pivot ball should be replaced too. I did not do this. Another possible cause? Don't have a clue about the rumble, maybe because of being new??? My son-in-law did this part of the job for me and he has done many clutches, says he installed the T/O correctly  BTW the application for for this clutch #MCL-75121 from Summit says it fits Corvette from 1969 to 1980. HELP! I need to get this done for Friday to to Ocean City, MD for cruise on the boardwalk!!!Exclamation



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Dan T
 

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10/11/11 1:46pm - Reply: 'Re: New clutch'
aceinthehole Lifetime Member
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Valley Springs, CA - USA

Vette(s):
1978,Metalic Money Green W/Gold emblems,TH350 w/gear splitter,black & grey interior.1978,two tone,Metalic Rootbeer & gold ,Doeskin interior,auto. trans. 1981, Silver w/mirrored T-Tops,4 spd, charcoal interior.

Joined: 11/20/2005
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Sorry I don't have any info to contribute. Aftermarket clutches on any make and model car always allow the opportunity for this adventure. Hard to imagine it being anything else but the T/O bearing. Please keep us informed on how this plays out Dan. Very educational. Good luck.

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10/11/11 3:47pm - Reply: 'Re: New clutch'
manchestershark Lifetime Member
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Equinunk, PA - USA

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1972 conv, 4-speed, 350, 200hp, numbers match, rally wheels, war bonnett yellow w/white top. good condition, nice driver.

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 This may be an insult, but not intended to be one. Try turning the TOB over. It can be inserted up side down. MANY years ago I did it myself. It may also be possible the clutch disk is inserted up side down as well. Hope ya don't need new parts.

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10/11/11 11:05pm - Reply: 'Re: New clutch'
Adams' Apple Lifetime Member
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Duncanville, TX - USA

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#1-1974 L-48 4spd Cp Med Red Metallic/Black deluxe int w/AC/tilt/tele./p/w-p/b/ Am-Fm/map light National/Regional/Chapter NCRS "Top Flight" #2-1985 Bright Red/Carmine Cp.L-98/auto Member: NCRS, NCRS Texas, Corvette Legends of Texas

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I do NOT have any part numbers, sorry. I do know there are two different height tob assemblies, as well as two different height pivot balls for the fork. Assuming you did not change the pivot, or the fork, I would be looking at the tob...perhaps it is not compatible with the type of pressure plate you used. If you bought a clutch kit that came with the tob, it should all work together.
Couple of questions:
Is the "new" clutch disc the exact same diameter as the old one?
Is the pressure plate the same type, as in diaphragm style, or the three fingered "Borg & Beck/Long" style?
Is your installer absolutely certain the disc was not installed backwards?
Was the pilot bushing/bearing replaced?


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Joel Adams
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10/12/11 1:53pm - Reply: 'Re: New clutch'
my7t1 Lifetime Member
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Dorr, MI - USA

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71 Colonnade Hardtop Coupe Torch Red with black interior originally L48 built to push around 360hp

Joined: 8/21/2002
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Just did mine a while back, and I agree with everything that is suggested. I do remember not being sure which way the TOB was suppose to go.  Also like Joel say's, very important that the pilot busing fits snug. Never hurts to knock it out and replace while your in there. I don't think that would have anything to do with gear grinding, but in mine it definitely caused rumble and vibration. As far as fork and ball. Mine were shot but what it caused was very stiff and crunchy when I depressed the pedal.
I agree that is sounds like a TOB issue.


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10/13/11 3:34pm - Reply: 'Re: New clutch'
danascar
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Germansville, PA - USA

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1974 Coupe 358ci 4 speed Black w/Medium Saddle interior w/79 custom leather seats

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Okay, just got back.....answers to questions are: Changed from 3 fingered Borg & Beck to diaphaghm style clutch plate. Bought this as a kit...came with plate, disc and T/O/B.
I did replace the pilot bushing. It is the same 11 inch as was taken out. I have to take my son-in-laws word for it to be installed correctly, I was not here while it was being installed. I know there was some problem when trying to install T/O/B on the fork without removing bellhousing and the the bellhousing was finally removed to install. Old T/O/B came out easily with bell on but could not get new one on without removing bell. Spring retainer clip on fork got a little bent but was straightened prior to installing T/O/B. That's all we know at this point, have not removed anything to check further.


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10/13/11 4:35pm - Reply: 'Re: New clutch'
Adams' Apple Lifetime Member
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Duncanville, TX - USA

Vette(s):
#1-1974 L-48 4spd Cp Med Red Metallic/Black deluxe int w/AC/tilt/tele./p/w-p/b/ Am-Fm/map light National/Regional/Chapter NCRS "Top Flight" #2-1985 Bright Red/Carmine Cp.L-98/auto Member: NCRS, NCRS Texas, Corvette Legends of Texas

Joined: 11/8/2003
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There is a difference in the height of the two different pressure plate fingers, when installed. This may be the problem, assuming everything is correctly installed, and nothing is damaged. You may need to go to a wee bit longer TOB, or the fork may need to be changed. Lemmie do some research, and I'll git back with this later.

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10/13/11 4:50pm - Reply: 'Re: New clutch'
danascar
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Germansville, PA - USA

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1974 Coupe 358ci 4 speed Black w/Medium Saddle interior w/79 custom leather seats

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I did check with the local NAPA store and they only list 1 TOB for that application..

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10/17/11 11:53am - Reply: 'Re: New clutch'
danascar
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Germansville, PA - USA

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1974 Coupe 358ci 4 speed Black w/Medium Saddle interior w/79 custom leather seats

Joined: 1/28/2010
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Well, just got back from Ocean City MD Corvette Weekend, a great time I might add. Called Summit and they tell me this the correct clutch kit for my car. They do have a longer TOB that is at 1.885 in. compared to 1.225 which is the "short" TOB. They also have an adjustable TOB that starts at 1.325 in. and can be adjusted up to 1.525 or 1.725 in. He also made another point as to a possible cause. He said it's possible depending on how many and how much the flywheel had been cut, that it could also be the cause of the problem in addition to the possibility that the fork had been changed and is not the same as stock.  I did have it cut this time which is a requirement for the clutch warranty, but have no idea how many times it might have been cut in the past. So that's where I stand at this point on this problem. I'm guessing maybe the adjustable TOB might be the way to go, but not too convinced on the reliability of an adjustabvle TOB...any thoughts Question

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10/17/11 12:51pm - Reply: 'Re: New clutch'
manchestershark Lifetime Member
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Equinunk, PA - USA

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1972 conv, 4-speed, 350, 200hp, numbers match, rally wheels, war bonnett yellow w/white top. good condition, nice driver.

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I DO NOT think I would use an adjustable one. I would get parts that fit/work well with a fixed one.

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10/17/11 2:05pm - Reply: 'Re: New clutch'
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Duncanville, TX - USA

Vette(s):
#1-1974 L-48 4spd Cp Med Red Metallic/Black deluxe int w/AC/tilt/tele./p/w-p/b/ Am-Fm/map light National/Regional/Chapter NCRS "Top Flight" #2-1985 Bright Red/Carmine Cp.L-98/auto Member: NCRS, NCRS Texas, Corvette Legends of Texas

Joined: 11/8/2003
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I ain't never heerd of an "adjustable" TOB.....that's a new one for me!
On the subject of the flywheel, it's IS possible that machining it over the years has changed the relationship between the flywheel and the TOB some, but I doubt it would be enough to cause your problem. If this were a hydraulic set-up, yeah, I'd be more inclined to go that route, but a mechanical set-up....not so much. IT would have to be 1/4" or more difference for that to come into play, and since you apparently did NOT have this problem before, I can't see them cutting 1/4" off the flywheel this time.
There are shims that go between the flywheel and the crankshaft to re-establish the correct working height of the flywheel, if needed.
I think the bottom line is.....yer gonna hafta pull it out and start over, and double-check everything.  Ouch Cry


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Joel Adams
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10/17/11 2:24pm - Reply: 'Re: New clutch'
Ron 78 Lifetime Member
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BINGHAMTON, NY - USA

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I gotta go wid Joel on dis one,yank it all out and see whats goin on in der,I aint neva heerd of an adjustable thro-out bearing b-4 either Shocked

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10/17/11 2:24pm - Reply: 'Re: New clutch'
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Duncanville, TX - USA

Vette(s):
#1-1974 L-48 4spd Cp Med Red Metallic/Black deluxe int w/AC/tilt/tele./p/w-p/b/ Am-Fm/map light National/Regional/Chapter NCRS "Top Flight" #2-1985 Bright Red/Carmine Cp.L-98/auto Member: NCRS, NCRS Texas, Corvette Legends of Texas

Joined: 11/8/2003
Posts: 19448
danascar said:

 when testing found that it made a rumblimg sound when depressing clutch pedal and would not even come close to working, could not get in any gear with out grinding gears bad. Exclamation



This particular statement still leads me to think something is NOT assembled properly. A "rumbling" sound when pressing the pedal to the floor means something is hitting something it should not be hitting/rubbing....
It has to be either an issue with the TOB not being installed cerectly, or the disc is backerds....Unhappy


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11/7/11 1:42pm - Reply: 'Re: New clutch'
danascar
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Germansville, PA - USA

Vette(s):
1974 Coupe 358ci 4 speed Black w/Medium Saddle interior w/79 custom leather seats

Joined: 1/28/2010
Posts: 763
OK...latest update on this. Pulled tranny out and checked clutch...everything installed correctly. Did a lot of research with different people and there definitely is 2 different length t/o bearings. Took tranny out to shop to have seals replaced and a check out. Immediately upon picking up tranny the guy says something don't feel right when he rotated input shaft. Found bearing under nose cone was coming apart....that may be the rumbling sound. BTW he says I have a Muncie Rock Crusher tranny...a very good tranny...getting rare to find! He also gave me number for the t/o bearings.....for everybodies info the number for the 1.225 inch short bearing is 614018...the number for the longer 1.885 inch bearing is 614037. So I'll have the bearing tomorrow and the tranny may be done by the end of the week....a little late for anything more this year but at least hopefully I have the clutch problem solved. Also did order a new fork and pivot stud for it and the new pivot stud is about a quarter of an inch longer than what was in the bellhousing....that should also move the t/o closer to the pressure plate.

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11/7/11 7:29pm - Reply: 'Re: New clutch'
Jaws79 Lifetime Member
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Sykesville, MD - USA

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1979 Corvette Coupe Corvette Light Blue Midnight Blue interior Mirrored Glass T-tops

Joined: 4/27/2008
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So there WAS something wrong with the tranny! That's why sometimes you have to bite the bullet and take it some where reliable. I'll be keeping my fingers crossed that it all turns out ok! Gotta be ready for NEXT YEAR! Really enjoyed you and Kathy's company yesterday (even if we didn't see much of the ladies). Wink 
 
Barry
 
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