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8/17/05 6:34am - Original Message: 'rear end decoding'
StreetShark
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Fayetteville, NC - USA

Vette(s):
1968 Corvette Convertable, 4 spd, 350 SB, Daily Driver

Joined: 2/13/2005
Posts: 244

I was hoping someone could help me.  I had to change my U-Joints and was able to clean off my differential.  Can anyone tell me what this number means:

2 FA 2 12 68 W

It is stamped on the bottom of the differential, not the cover.  Thanks,

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8/17/05 7:02am - Reply: 'rear end decoding'
Adams' Apple Lifetime Member
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Duncanville, TX - USA

Vette(s):
#1-1974 L-48 4spd Cp Med Red Metallic/Black deluxe int w/AC/tilt/tele./p/w-p/b/ Am-Fm/map light National/Regional/Chapter NCRS "Top Flight" #2-1985 Bright Red/Carmine Cp.L-98/auto Member: NCRS, NCRS Texas, Corvette Legends of Texas

Joined: 11/8/2003
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The "FA" = 3.70 ratio, heavy duty posi, for a 427 car
The "W" = Warren Motive, the plant where it was assembled.
The other #s indicate the date of build(Julian date)


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8/17/05 7:42am - Reply: 'rear end decoding'
StreetShark
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Fayetteville, NC - USA

Vette(s):
1968 Corvette Convertable, 4 spd, 350 SB, Daily Driver

Joined: 2/13/2005
Posts: 244

Thanks Adams' Apple.  This is another indicator that my car was a 427 car from the factory.  Maybe you can answer another question.  If I was to put a 427 back in the car, even though I cannot document it, would it still be considered a numbers matching car?

Thanks,



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1968 Corvette 350SB/4SPD/Born to Drive
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8/17/05 8:28am - Reply: 'rear end decoding'
chesh
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Edgewood, KY - USA

Vette(s):
1981, Black/Black, Engine bumped to about 400HP.Ext/int mostly stock.

Joined: 10/26/2003
Posts: 339

Simple answer: No.  The engine would have to be the exact one that came out of the car, which means the VIN on the engine block stamp pad must match the VIN of your car.  It's very rare, but there have been cases of present owners contacting past owners, asking lots of questions and then locating the original motor in someone's garage.  However, those are usually cases where the original motor was less desirable and a more desirable motor was inserted.  I can't imagine why anyone would replace a 427 unless the block was badly damaged, althought people do things you wouldn't expect all the time.

With that said, if you are into originality, you can install a 427 cast within 6 months of the build date of your car and have a "correct" engine for your car, according to the NCRS guys, although it still does not carry the higher value of the original motor.  Also, on a 40 year old car, there are probably far more components than just the engine that have been replaced with "service replacement" parts that make them no longer original - things like brake calipers, alternators, starters, water pumps, etc.  If the majority is not truly original, I'm not so sure having a non-original but correct motor in your car woud add much value.  Of course, the smile you'd have when you hit the gas would be priceless ;-)  

I suggest that before seriously considering that kind of investment, and 427 blocks, heads, etc., are very expensive, that you get on the technical discussion board at ncrs.org and start asking questions.  Or better yet, start by searching their archives, as this exact question comes up all the time.  Not only can they give you EVERY possible clue to check to verify the original configuration of a '68 as a 427 or not, they can tell you exactly the date codes needed on all parts to be considered a "correct" car (not #s matching) and the likely investment vs. increase in the car's value.  

BTW, love the Vette!  Even though I have an '81, if I ever add a 2nd one, it would be a 68 or 69.



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'81 Black on Black. Best picture I could get on a gloomy winter day in Northern KY.

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8/17/05 8:46am - Reply: 'rear end decoding'
StreetShark
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Fayetteville, NC - USA

Vette(s):
1968 Corvette Convertable, 4 spd, 350 SB, Daily Driver

Joined: 2/13/2005
Posts: 244
Thanks chesh, I am really into driving the car, the numbers matching thing for show car status is not really my game.  I want to modernize the suspension and steering, then a new 5 speed, so that it runs/rides more or less like a new (2000 era) car.  You just can't replace the way these cars look with a new vette.

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1968 Corvette 350SB/4SPD/Born to Drive
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8/17/05 9:00am - Reply: 'rear end decoding'
jredding
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Miramar, FL - USA

Vette(s):
1972 coupe/350 cid/mild cam/4 spd/20 ft. paint (looks perfect from 20 ft.), but it sure runs nice.

Joined: 3/16/2004
Posts: 672

Jr,

Did you find the diff #'s on the flange( lookin underneath, where the cover meets the main case)?  If that's where it is, mine is so faint I could barely make them out. I've tried Brakeleen, WD -40, you name it, to remove gunk. Maybe I'll try smearing white paint on it then wiping clean.....hopefully the numbers will appear.

JR

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8/17/05 9:29am - Reply: 'rear end decoding'
StreetShark
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Fayetteville, NC - USA

Vette(s):
1968 Corvette Convertable, 4 spd, 350 SB, Daily Driver

Joined: 2/13/2005
Posts: 244
That is where I located the number.  There is a space there between the spring mount and the strut rods.  I sprayed PB Blaster and rub vigorusly with my fingers.  Good luck.

____________________________________
"You Have To Live Hard To Be Hard"

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1968 Corvette 350SB/4SPD/Born to Drive
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8/17/05 10:38am - Reply: 'rear end decoding'
Bob Griffiths Lifetime Member
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Frederick, MD - USA

Vette(s):
Frederick County Corvette Club (Maryland) Tan 64 365 Hp Conv 4 sp Red 72 4 sp Conv ..running a '68 327 Blue 76 Coupe L 48 4 sp White 79 Coupe L 82 auto Silver 98 Conv, 6 sp 35th Anniv '88 vette

Joined: 2/20/2003
Posts: 548

Chesh:
          Believe it or not when the gas lines grew to almost a mile long and you could only get gas on alternate days in 1973 IT WAS NOT AT ALL UNUSUAL to swap out a Big Block and drop in a more gas friendly small block ...

I know at least a dozen guys who did exactly that... Remember this 68 was all of 5 years old  at the time  ands most likely was a daily driver

... I was driving my  Corvette back and forth to work  at that time
and ordered another Vette (.... OK A CHEVETTE  !!!)  in oder to afford to drive to work...It was a Scooter...cheapest model they made..& even deleted the radio...  

My point is really that it was pretty damn common to either sell a BIG BLOCK Car at the time or swap the engine out for anything that would let you avoid the gas lines ..

I live in what was a very rural area then
(early 70's) and I and almost all my neighbors had 300 Gallon Gas tanks at the house...However The Farm Supply company that supplier our gasoline cut off residential gas delivery just so they could supply the farmers with their needs... another reason to pull the Big Blocks
out and drop in a small block...

There are plenty of 65 thru 74 EX BIG BLOCK Corvettes  on the street today... and many of them that are on the street with BB's under the hood do not have the original engine ...

Bob




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Bob
64,72 & 98 Corvette Ragtops
76 & 79 & qa 88 ANC Corvette Coupes

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8/17/05 10:39am - Reply: 'rear end decoding'
jredding
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Miramar, FL - USA

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1972 coupe/350 cid/mild cam/4 spd/20 ft. paint (looks perfect from 20 ft.), but it sure runs nice.

Joined: 3/16/2004
Posts: 672

Thanks.....I'll try PB Blaster and a brass brush next before the white paint.

JR

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8/17/05 11:36am - Reply: 'rear end decoding'
chesh
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Edgewood, KY - USA

Vette(s):
1981, Black/Black, Engine bumped to about 400HP.Ext/int mostly stock.

Joined: 10/26/2003
Posts: 339
Great point Bob.  I was 7 in '73 and remember the gas lines, my dad complaining about gas prices, and my brother selling an Olds 442 and buying a Vega, but I guess I was also young enough that it didn't have a direct impact on my at the time, nor an emotional one, so it isn't something I immediately think about.  Now, had I been a proud owner of a 427 Vette and had to make the tough decision to replace it with a mouse motor, you bet I would remember.  That had to be like sacrificing your first-born...  It had to be bad enough to be a car enthusiast old enough to see the muscle-car era collapse into a period where you could not buy a factory performance car.  

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'81 Black on Black. Best picture I could get on a gloomy winter day in Northern KY.

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8/17/05 8:52pm - Reply: 'rear end decoding'
Adams' Apple Lifetime Member
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Duncanville, TX - USA

Vette(s):
#1-1974 L-48 4spd Cp Med Red Metallic/Black deluxe int w/AC/tilt/tele./p/w-p/b/ Am-Fm/map light National/Regional/Chapter NCRS "Top Flight" #2-1985 Bright Red/Carmine Cp.L-98/auto Member: NCRS, NCRS Texas, Corvette Legends of Texas

Joined: 11/8/2003
Posts: 19545
[QUOTE=StreetShark]

Thanks Adams' Apple.  This is another indicator that my car was a 427 car from the factory.  Maybe you can answer another question.  If I was to put a 427 back in the car, even though I cannot document it, would it still be considered a numbers matching car?


Thanks,

[/QUOTE]

The term "Numbers Matching" is highly mis-used, these days. You can absolutely put an engine in the car that has all of the "correct" numbers, but it still wouldn't be factory installed, which is the term I prefer to use. There are many people out there that make a living building "nums match" cars, and just as many getting taken when they buy them as such. My personal standard is, "If Zora didn't put it in there, it ain't original"!

I say, if you want a BB in your car, just go for it, and don't worry about the numbers, because it won't be "correct" anyway.(unless you stumble upon the original engine) You can still have just as much fun burnin 'em down with another BB in it's place!

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Joel Adams
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6/17/14 1:12pm - Reply: 'Re: rear end decoding'
jhorton58
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Osceola, AR - USA

Vette(s):
21 from 1972 and 1980

Joined: 4/19/2007
Posts: 2
1969 Rear end code

I have a rear end with the following codes 2CAM 109 69 W, It cam out of a 1969 Corvette, but I couldn't verify the numbers.
I had one person tell me it was a warranty replacement. The confusing part for me is the 2 and the 69 otherwise I would think it is a 3.36:1 1970 Posi built at the warren plant on April 19
If anyone can help decipher it, I would appreciate it...
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6/17/14 4:16pm - Reply: 'Re: rear end decoding'
Adams' Apple Lifetime Member
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Duncanville, TX - USA

Vette(s):
#1-1974 L-48 4spd Cp Med Red Metallic/Black deluxe int w/AC/tilt/tele./p/w-p/b/ Am-Fm/map light National/Regional/Chapter NCRS "Top Flight" #2-1985 Bright Red/Carmine Cp.L-98/auto Member: NCRS, NCRS Texas, Corvette Legends of Texas

Joined: 11/8/2003
Posts: 19545
Are you SURE it has "CAM"??? I'll look when I get home to see, but I'm not familiar with a 3 letter diff code.
A "warranty replacement" diff would probably NOT have added letters to the code, unlike an engine, which they usually DID add identifying coding to the stamp pad....at the engine assembly plant. They were usually stamped with a "CE" code, or similar. I'll see if I can find anything on it, tho....now I'm curious. Big smile


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Joel Adams
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6/17/14 9:49pm - Reply: 'Re: rear end decoding'
Adams' Apple Lifetime Member
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Duncanville, TX - USA

Vette(s):
#1-1974 L-48 4spd Cp Med Red Metallic/Black deluxe int w/AC/tilt/tele./p/w-p/b/ Am-Fm/map light National/Regional/Chapter NCRS "Top Flight" #2-1985 Bright Red/Carmine Cp.L-98/auto Member: NCRS, NCRS Texas, Corvette Legends of Texas

Joined: 11/8/2003
Posts: 19545
 Ah HA! Big smile
LATE '69, and '70 diffs had 3 letter codes. CAM is a 3.36 posi for a small block car.The "69" in the code is the year.

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Joel Adams
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             NCRS

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6/18/14 12:03pm - Reply: 'Re: rear end decoding'
jhorton58
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Osceola, AR - USA

Vette(s):
21 from 1972 and 1980

Joined: 4/19/2007
Posts: 2
Thank you..for the replies.. Does anyone know why there is a 2 in front of the CAM..
 
This is a site for the codes, but I couldn't find anything about the 2 http://home.comcast.net/~jmasperi/vetrears.htm
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6/18/14 12:23pm - Reply: 'Re: rear end decoding'
Adams' Apple Lifetime Member
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Duncanville, TX - USA

Vette(s):
#1-1974 L-48 4spd Cp Med Red Metallic/Black deluxe int w/AC/tilt/tele./p/w-p/b/ Am-Fm/map light National/Regional/Chapter NCRS "Top Flight" #2-1985 Bright Red/Carmine Cp.L-98/auto Member: NCRS, NCRS Texas, Corvette Legends of Texas

Joined: 11/8/2003
Posts: 19545
 The "2" is probably the shift(2nd shift) when the diff was assembled. The shift number is usually after the other codes, but it could be anywhere...just depended on who was stamping it, and what kind of mood they were in that day, or how much they had to drink at lunch....or the night before. Beer

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2/1/15 12:31pm - Reply: 'Re: rear end decoding'
dwa175 Gold Member
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oakville, CT - USA

Vette(s):
1979 coupe and now 2007 c-6

Joined: 7/19/2014
Posts: 189
hii yes  gas lines,in our garage we would pay a person to go to gas and fill,mybe 1/2 tank ,I rode my bike every day my good old sportser     long time ago   dwa

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2/1/15 11:50pm - Reply: 'Re: rear end decoding'
cthulhu Lifetime Member
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Hot Springs, AR - USA

Vette(s):
69 Conv #'s Match 427, TKO-600, 3.36HD-Posi, T/T, PS, PB, PW, SP, Lthr, Comp Mag 270 & Pro Rlr Rockers, Edel Air-Gap RPM, BG SD 750 MS, MSD 6AL+Tach Dist+ Blaster SS+Wires, Hly Bl Fuel Pump, K&N, Jet-Hot Hkr Side-Pipes,Steeroids, Al Rad, Spal Fans

Joined: 4/24/2004
Posts: 3194
chesh said:

Simple answer: No.  The engine would have to be the exact one that came out of the car, which means the VIN on the engine block stamp pad must match the VIN of your car.  It's very rare, but there have been cases of present owners contacting past owners, asking lots of questions and then locating the original motor in someone's garage.  However, those are usually cases where the original motor was less desirable and a more desirable motor was inserted.  I can't imagine why anyone would replace a 427 unless the block was badly damaged, althought people do things you wouldn't expect all the time.

With that said, if you are into originality, you can install a 427 cast within 6 months of the build date of your car and have a "correct" engine for your car, according to the NCRS guys, although it still does not carry the higher value of the original motor.  Also, on a 40 year old car, there are probably far more components than just the engine that have been replaced with "service replacement" parts that make them no longer original - things like brake calipers, alternators, starters, water pumps, etc.  If the majority is not truly original, I'm not so sure having a non-original but correct motor in your car woud add much value.  Of course, the smile you'd have when you hit the gas would be priceless ;-)  

I suggest that before seriously considering that kind of investment, and 427 blocks, heads, etc., are very expensive, that you get on the technical discussion board at ncrs.org and start asking questions.  Or better yet, start by searching their archives, as this exact question comes up all the time.  Not only can they give you EVERY possible clue to check to verify the original configuration of a '68 as a 427 or not, they can tell you exactly the date codes needed on all parts to be considered a "correct" car (not #s matching) and the likely investment vs. increase in the car's value.  

BTW, love the Vette!  Even though I have an '81, if I ever add a 2nd one, it would be a 68 or 69.


I was under the impression that restamping a vin on a correct engine was considered restoration.



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2/2/15 12:48pm - Reply: 'Re: rear end decoding'
Adams' Apple Lifetime Member
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Duncanville, TX - USA

Vette(s):
#1-1974 L-48 4spd Cp Med Red Metallic/Black deluxe int w/AC/tilt/tele./p/w-p/b/ Am-Fm/map light National/Regional/Chapter NCRS "Top Flight" #2-1985 Bright Red/Carmine Cp.L-98/auto Member: NCRS, NCRS Texas, Corvette Legends of Texas

Joined: 11/8/2003
Posts: 19545
cthulhu said: I was under the impression that restamping a vin on a correct engine was considered restoration.

RE-stamping, on the original engine would be considered a restoration.
There are two trains of thought on engine stamping...One is that you can stamp a new VIN on a "correct" engine if it is done to where it is not noticeable, AND as long as it is the SAME type engine the vehicle had from the factory. Others think that ANY non-factory stamp is a forgery. The issue has to do with the incredible amount of forgeries taking place these days. It is possible to "build" a low horse small block, no option car into a fully optioned 435 big block...that's the problem. That car now gets sold as a sweet big block car, for a sweet big block price, and the new owner gets to enjoy the loss when it is found out what they bought is a forgery.
Now.....if you have a small block car, with a blown engine, and you find a complete, correctly dated small block of the same hp/trans, stamping the correct VIN isn't frowned on as much, depending on if you try to convince someone it is "numbers matching" or not.
The first time I had my '74 judged at NCRS, some of the judges thought the engine stamp wasn't "original", or correct...."looks fishy". REALLY?!? Why the hell would anyone fake an L-48 engined car????? The issue was, they are so used to seeing the factory broach marks on older engines that were not as detailed on the later engines from the '70s.
It's a tangled web we weave...


|UPDATED|2/2/2015 10:48:34 AM (AZT)|/UPDATED|


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Joel Adams
C3VR Lifetime Member #56    
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(click for Texas-sized view!)
             NCRS

"Money can't buy happiness -- but somehow it's more comforting to cry in a CORVETTE than in a Kia"
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2/2/15 11:16pm - Reply: 'Re: rear end decoding'
cthulhu Lifetime Member
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Hot Springs, AR - USA

Vette(s):
69 Conv #'s Match 427, TKO-600, 3.36HD-Posi, T/T, PS, PB, PW, SP, Lthr, Comp Mag 270 & Pro Rlr Rockers, Edel Air-Gap RPM, BG SD 750 MS, MSD 6AL+Tach Dist+ Blaster SS+Wires, Hly Bl Fuel Pump, K&N, Jet-Hot Hkr Side-Pipes,Steeroids, Al Rad, Spal Fans

Joined: 4/24/2004
Posts: 3194
Adams' Apple said:
cthulhu said: I was under the impression that restamping a vin on a correct engine was considered restoration.

RE-stamping, on the original engine would be considered a restoration.
There are two trains of thought on engine stamping...One is that you can stamp a new VIN on a "correct" engine if it is done to where it is not noticeable, AND as long as it is the SAME type engine the vehicle had from the factory. Others think that ANY non-factory stamp is a forgery. The issue has to do with the incredible amount of forgeries taking place these days. It is possible to "build" a low horse small block, no option car into a fully optioned 435 big block...that's the problem. That car now gets sold as a sweet big block car, for a sweet big block price, and the new owner gets to enjoy the loss when it is found out what they bought is a forgery.
Now.....if you have a small block car, with a blown engine, and you find a complete, correctly dated small block of the same hp/trans, stamping the correct VIN isn't frowned on as much, depending on if you try to convince someone it is "numbers matching" or not.
The first time I had my '74 judged at NCRS, some of the judges thought the engine stamp wasn't "original", or correct...."looks fishy". REALLY?!? Why the hell would anyone fake an L-48 engined car????? The issue was, they are so used to seeing the factory broach marks on older engines that were not as detailed on the later engines from the '70s.
It's a tangled web we weave...




yeah that is consistent withn my understanding of the restamping issue.  if you had a blown engine in your l-36 and found another l-36 engine with correct casting numbers and date stamps that you could then sand the vin off and restamp it and it would be restoring it to original condition.  if you take that same car and put an l-71 engine in the car with the correct date codes and restamped the vin, you have created a forgery.
 


 


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