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6/29/14 7:33pm - Original Message: 'This was a little scary!'
HighDesertDave
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Carson City, NV - USA

Vette(s):
Numbers matching 1972 350 4 speed, silver pewter body with blue interior

Joined: 12/4/2013
Posts: 239
Been really busy working on the 72 pushing to get her ready for our local car show. I was able to repair and paint the L-88 plus finish installing the new leather seat upholstery. The interior looks great and I love the aggressiveness of the L-88. We had our show yesterday which I made. Follow below to see what happened....




After the show we had a parade through downtown Carson City. I was mid pack with my 13 year old daughter riding shotgun. Perfect day, 86 out, t-tops off, rear window out and then I it felt like I was driving a clown car. Up and down and left and right all at the same time....I pulled into a parking lot, gave a quick look over, nothing, checked tire pressure, nothing....hmmm...so I carefully drove back to our staging area...I was the first one back. Within 10 minutes everyone returned for the show awards and I had made the mistake of parking right near the grandstand. I was surround by all the other show cars....see below what was waiting for me when I got out of the car....




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My Christmas present to ME! Bought Sat 11-30-2013. 72, 350 4 spd, Silver with blue interior...Can't you just hear Pablo Cruz playing in the background?

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6/29/14 7:46pm - Reply: 'Re: This was a little scary!'
HighDesertDave
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Carson City, NV - USA

Vette(s):
Numbers matching 1972 350 4 speed, silver pewter body with blue interior

Joined: 12/4/2013
Posts: 239
I pulled the center cap to see if the lugs came off...nope. Ok, this is bad. Called for a flatbed tow but had to wait around 1.5 hours for all the awards to be handed out first. I was locked in...no biggy but I really should have pulled to the side rather than right up to the grandstand....
Anyway, I broke it all down today and found a failed inner roller bearing on the stub shaft. Feel free to correct my naming of these parts. My manual does not address anything inside the hub assembly.
I do have a question: I'm assuming I have an inner and outer tapered roller bearings. There is so little material left on the inside I can only guess there was one before grenading....there appears to be a race in there. I found nothing that looks like rollers or a cage. My question, I cannot pull the stub shaft out. I'm inside of it all, the large 1.125" nut came off no issue, go the half shaft mounting plate off (under the nut) and there appears to be the center of the bearing kinda locked onto the stub shaft. I could possibly hammer the shaft out thus pushing this "ring" off the shaft but I do not wish to mess up whatever is inside the control that this thing would be resting up against. I might be able to a small puller on the "ring". Might not...there is not a ton of room inside the control arm. Whataya think?


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My Christmas present to ME! Bought Sat 11-30-2013. 72, 350 4 spd, Silver with blue interior...Can't you just hear Pablo Cruz playing in the background?

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6/29/14 11:16pm - Reply: 'Re: This was a little scary!'
HighDesertDave
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Carson City, NV - USA

Vette(s):
Numbers matching 1972 350 4 speed, silver pewter body with blue interior

Joined: 12/4/2013
Posts: 239
Did some research and it looks like I need to have this trailing arm rebuilt. The inner bearing grenaded for sure. Oddly I cannot find enough trash to equal 1 bearing. I'm trying to decide if I should just yank the other side and do them both. 

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My Christmas present to ME! Bought Sat 11-30-2013. 72, 350 4 spd, Silver with blue interior...Can't you just hear Pablo Cruz playing in the background?

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6/30/14 7:03am - Reply: 'Re: This was a little scary!'
manchestershark Lifetime Member
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Equinunk, PA - USA

Vette(s):
1972 conv, 4-speed, 350, 200hp, numbers match, rally wheels, war bonnett yellow w/white top. good condition, nice driver.

Joined: 10/31/2007
Posts: 1968
OuchThumbs Up  YUP! Do them both.

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6/30/14 8:09am - Reply: 'Re: This was a little scary!'
Adams' Apple Lifetime Member
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Duncanville, TX - USA

Vette(s):
#1-1974 L-48 4spd Cp Med Red Metallic/Black deluxe int w/AC/tilt/tele./p/w-p/b/ Am-Fm/map light National/Regional/Chapter NCRS "Top Flight" #2-1985 Bright Red/Carmine Cp.L-98/auto Member: NCRS, NCRS Texas, Corvette Legends of Texas

Joined: 11/8/2003
Posts: 19546
Dave...it takes special tools to get the stub shaft loose from the bearing. You can beat on that thing all day long, and all you'll get is a sore arm, and a severely messed up stub shaft. Don't even bother. Remove the t-arm, take the spindle support assembly off of the t-arm, and use a press. If yer really lucky, the shaft will not be damaged. As far as not seeing any shrapnel from the bearing, you'll see that once you get the shaft pressed out....it will all be contained in the hollow area of the spindle support.
I wondered if this wasn't causing your brake issue, but I could swear you had posted earlier that you had already done the rear bearings.....Wacko

Tough break, BUT....at least it happened close to home, and not on the highway at 75mph!

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Joel Adams
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"Money can't buy happiness -- but somehow it's more comforting to cry in a CORVETTE than in a Kia"
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6/30/14 2:28pm - Reply: 'Re: This was a little scary!'
persico Gold Member
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Long Valley, NJ - USA

Vette(s):
1972 454 Coupe, 4 speed, Targa Blue with blue interior, luggage rack

Joined: 3/21/2007
Posts: 267
I second the comment that "at least it didn't have at 75 mph".  I just had both trailing arms rebuilt, did it locally to save on shipping, still not cheap.  But more importantly...is that a Honda Accord you are parked next to!!!!

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Mario
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7/1/14 12:10am - Reply: 'Re: This was a little scary!'
HighDesertDave
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Carson City, NV - USA

Vette(s):
Numbers matching 1972 350 4 speed, silver pewter body with blue interior

Joined: 12/4/2013
Posts: 239
Ya that POS Honda followed me in....couldn't shake him. I know...."what the...?"

Yup, will pull the arms and have them done up. I might press them out myself just to inspect the innards. Yes, I feel very lucky it happened at like 10 MPH in the parade and 2 miles from my house. As far as the brakes, yes this was the brake issue. The rotor was starting to wedge itself in the caliper as the bearing got looser. The disc brakes saved my bacon. It kept the wheel inside the fender rather than flying down the road. Hoping the rotor is not warped. It looks fine...no visible damage. All the brakes on this car are new including rebuilt calipers. This rotor looks to be a turned OEM unit. Now I did see how the internal e-brake works and and found the star adjuster. Tell me this: it appears you need to pull the spindle out of the t-arm to install the e-brake shoes etc. The e-brake stuff is all new. If yes you do need to pull the spindle to get at the internal drum then someone did that and didn't replace the inner wheel bearings. The grease in there is like old tar.  But why would you not replace the bearings if you had it all apart? I will never know.....


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My Christmas present to ME! Bought Sat 11-30-2013. 72, 350 4 spd, Silver with blue interior...Can't you just hear Pablo Cruz playing in the background?

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7/1/14 11:03am - Reply: 'Re: This was a little scary!'
Norsky Lifetime Member
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Twin Lakes, CO - USA

Vette(s):
SOLD - "The Toy" - 1970 Convertible
SOLD - "The Beast" - 1990 ZR-1 (#682)
"BLKBRRD" - 1978 Trans Am, 400ci/285hp, 4 spd, Black w/black interior, Hurst t-tops

Joined: 1/23/2002
Posts: 6764
It has been awhile since I worked on the parking brkes but I don't remember having to pull all of that apart.  If memory serves I just had to remove the caliper and rotor to get at all the parking brake stuff.  Just did all that on "The Silver Buckboard" (my '01 F-150) and the setup is virtually the same.

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Jim Olson 

"The Toys"...!!!  Save the Wave!
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7/1/14 11:58am - Reply: 'Re: This was a little scary!'
Adams' Apple Lifetime Member
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Duncanville, TX - USA

Vette(s):
#1-1974 L-48 4spd Cp Med Red Metallic/Black deluxe int w/AC/tilt/tele./p/w-p/b/ Am-Fm/map light National/Regional/Chapter NCRS "Top Flight" #2-1985 Bright Red/Carmine Cp.L-98/auto Member: NCRS, NCRS Texas, Corvette Legends of Texas

Joined: 11/8/2003
Posts: 19546
The park brake stuff is easier to mess with if you remove the spindle/hub, but it isn't required. Just a little harder to wrangle all the parts around the hub. Since your plan is to have the bearings replaced anyway, if it were me, I would press the hub/spindle out, and then take care of whatever the p brake needs before putting the hub/bearings back in the support. Be aware that pressing the spindle out of the support will take some ingenuity to do without damaging/bending the backing plate. I take the p brake stuff off, then the 4 nuts that hold the support to the t-arm, remove the support from the t-arm, and then go to the press. You can buy special tools to remove the spindle from the support, BUT...if the bearing(s) has welded to the spindle, or are just really tight, you'll wind up bending or breaking either the tool, or the support....or both.
This is why most folks send them off to be done, or buy reman assemblies. Approve




|UPDATED|7/1/2014 9:58:29 AM (AZT)|/UPDATED|


____________________________________
Joel Adams
C3VR Lifetime Member #56    
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             NCRS

"Money can't buy happiness -- but somehow it's more comforting to cry in a CORVETTE than in a Kia"
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7/1/14 3:06pm - Reply: 'Re: This was a little scary!'
HighDesertDave
Former Member
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Carson City, NV - USA

Vette(s):
Numbers matching 1972 350 4 speed, silver pewter body with blue interior

Joined: 12/4/2013
Posts: 239
I guess its time to go shopping for reman and compare. Bummer.....I didn't expect the vette to be dead in the garage. I had planned on tearing into my motorcycle to get it back on the road this summer.

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My Christmas present to ME! Bought Sat 11-30-2013. 72, 350 4 spd, Silver with blue interior...Can't you just hear Pablo Cruz playing in the background?

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7/2/14 12:34pm - Reply: 'Re: This was a little scary!'
Adams' Apple Lifetime Member
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Duncanville, TX - USA

Vette(s):
#1-1974 L-48 4spd Cp Med Red Metallic/Black deluxe int w/AC/tilt/tele./p/w-p/b/ Am-Fm/map light National/Regional/Chapter NCRS "Top Flight" #2-1985 Bright Red/Carmine Cp.L-98/auto Member: NCRS, NCRS Texas, Corvette Legends of Texas

Joined: 11/8/2003
Posts: 19546
Dave....you could prolly do them, it just takes patience, and time. Setting the bearings back up is the hard part....they have to be perfect, or dang close to perfect, or you'll be doing them again far sooner than ya want to. The biggest issue with setting up the new bearing clearances is that BOTH bearings are a press fit on the spindle, which makes changing shims to get the correct clearance a multi on-off deal....no fun in that at all. There is a tool that allows you to set the clearance and change shims without  even using the spindle. The tool basically replaces the spindle for the purpose of getting the clearances right. Once you have them right, and know what shims are needed, you can install the spindle with the shims, and yer done. I don't have the "special" tool...but I made one meself that works the same way. Been doing them like that for years, and so far(knock on wood), I haven't had a failure yet.






|UPDATED|7/2/2014 10:34:57 AM (AZT)|/UPDATED|


____________________________________
Joel Adams
C3VR Lifetime Member #56    
My Link


(click for Texas-sized view!)
             NCRS

"Money can't buy happiness -- but somehow it's more comforting to cry in a CORVETTE than in a Kia"
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7/2/14 1:50pm - Reply: 'Re: This was a little scary!'
HighDesertDave
Former Member
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Carson City, NV - USA

Vette(s):
Numbers matching 1972 350 4 speed, silver pewter body with blue interior

Joined: 12/4/2013
Posts: 239
Yes I understand the process. Similar to setting up side shims on a ring and pinion. The big dif is the press fit like you say. At least on a R&P you can pull the carrier out by hand, change shims and try again.
Bairs quoted me $175 per side for rebuilt bearing assebly that they say bolts back into the T-arm. Is that a good price? I'm also questioning the bolt in part...it looks like from the exploded diagram you have to press the inner bearings onto the spindle after its sitting in the t-arm...maybe I'm not seeing the assembly correctly....

On set up, are you looking for a specific amount of drag with a inch pound torque wrench or is there a feeler gauge clearance your working with?

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My Christmas present to ME! Bought Sat 11-30-2013. 72, 350 4 spd, Silver with blue interior...Can't you just hear Pablo Cruz playing in the background?

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7/2/14 9:20pm - Reply: 'Re: This was a little scary!'
Adams' Apple Lifetime Member
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Duncanville, TX - USA

Vette(s):
#1-1974 L-48 4spd Cp Med Red Metallic/Black deluxe int w/AC/tilt/tele./p/w-p/b/ Am-Fm/map light National/Regional/Chapter NCRS "Top Flight" #2-1985 Bright Red/Carmine Cp.L-98/auto Member: NCRS, NCRS Texas, Corvette Legends of Texas

Joined: 11/8/2003
Posts: 19546
That price sounds really reasonable to me. Thumbs Up

The spindle support IS a separate piece...it has four bolts that are splined into the t-arm, that go thru the support, then the backing plate, with four nuts that hold it all together.





Bearing clearance is set to .001"- .005"...closer to the .001" is better, but .005" is acceptable, and will survive just fine. I think I wound up with .003" on mine when I did them years ago. Shim selection makes the difference.....some kits only have this or that size. I had(at one time) a big box full of those shims of every size ever made. I think factory specs are .001"-.007"

hth Thumbs Up


____________________________________
Joel Adams
C3VR Lifetime Member #56    
My Link


(click for Texas-sized view!)
             NCRS

"Money can't buy happiness -- but somehow it's more comforting to cry in a CORVETTE than in a Kia"
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7/3/14 12:33am - Reply: 'Re: This was a little scary!'
HighDesertDave
Former Member
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Carson City, NV - USA

Vette(s):
Numbers matching 1972 350 4 speed, silver pewter body with blue interior

Joined: 12/4/2013
Posts: 239
Many thanks Joel!I think I will order the rebuilt units. Doing it myself will just take too many of our precious summer weeks, considering I may need to source a spindle if mine is roached. 

____________________________________
My Christmas present to ME! Bought Sat 11-30-2013. 72, 350 4 spd, Silver with blue interior...Can't you just hear Pablo Cruz playing in the background?

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7/3/14 11:57am - Reply: 'Re: This was a little scary!'
Adams' Apple Lifetime Member
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Duncanville, TX - USA

Vette(s):
#1-1974 L-48 4spd Cp Med Red Metallic/Black deluxe int w/AC/tilt/tele./p/w-p/b/ Am-Fm/map light National/Regional/Chapter NCRS "Top Flight" #2-1985 Bright Red/Carmine Cp.L-98/auto Member: NCRS, NCRS Texas, Corvette Legends of Texas

Joined: 11/8/2003
Posts: 19546
The rebuilt supports SHOULD come with new/good spindles already installed. It'd be kinda useless otherwise.... Wacko  LOL

Are they sold core exchange, or outright purchase? If they require your cores, then you might loose a little if the spindle is bad. Same thing if they will be rebuilding your originals.
Swapping the supports shouldn't take too long.....you ought to be able to do them one weekend if yer lazy like I am. If yer not, then prolly one Saturday will be plenty of time. Hardest part is gettin the dadburn parking brake stuff out of the way so you can remove the four nuts that hold the support to the t-arm. You'll need to remove the flange for the halfshaft, or course, but I think you said you already had that off. Thumbs Up

Here's a tip for re-assembly.....one of the pins for the p-brake shoes is "trapped", so it's hard to get it assembled without that turd fallin out. Put the pin thru the backing plate, and sillycone that bCensoredh in there long before putting it all back together....give it eough time for the sillycone to harden somewhat. That will hold the pin in, but still be flexible enough to move it to get the shoes back on. Thumbs Up

____________________________________
Joel Adams
C3VR Lifetime Member #56    
My Link


(click for Texas-sized view!)
             NCRS

"Money can't buy happiness -- but somehow it's more comforting to cry in a CORVETTE than in a Kia"
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7/3/14 1:54pm - Reply: 'Re: This was a little scary!'
HighDesertDave
Former Member
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Carson City, NV - USA

Vette(s):
Numbers matching 1972 350 4 speed, silver pewter body with blue interior

Joined: 12/4/2013
Posts: 239
Ya I was thinking if I ordered bearings/races/seals, pressed it all off, found my spindle was bad then I'm out that time looking for a spindle. So, I just now ordered the bearing assembly allowing me to do the repair with the arm installed. Good tip on the p-brake pin! Now the good news....I had this glimmer of a memory from the PO saying something about having one side of the rear axle worked on. I called him and yes, the lift side bearings have been replace. He had a funny wheel wobble....gee sounds familiar. I also found the receipt for all this. So I'm off to the races, right side only. Yippee! I should have the parts next Friday, I will install Sat and hopefully take the car on a short trip Sunday over the Sierra mountains....glutton for punishment? 

____________________________________
My Christmas present to ME! Bought Sat 11-30-2013. 72, 350 4 spd, Silver with blue interior...Can't you just hear Pablo Cruz playing in the background?

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7/3/14 1:57pm - Reply: 'Re: This was a little scary!'
HighDesertDave
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Carson City, NV - USA

Vette(s):
Numbers matching 1972 350 4 speed, silver pewter body with blue interior

Joined: 12/4/2013
Posts: 239
Oh hey, Torque specs on the 4 retainer nuts and large inside flange nut? My lame book shows none of this. Obviously not qualified to be working on these parts.
Thanks,
Dave

____________________________________
My Christmas present to ME! Bought Sat 11-30-2013. 72, 350 4 spd, Silver with blue interior...Can't you just hear Pablo Cruz playing in the background?

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