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9/28/12 6:39pm - Original Message: 'Engine cockeyed'
ROCKRDR
Former Member
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Lakeside, AZ - USA

Vette(s):
1975 C3 Stingray

Joined: 7/23/2012
Posts: 126
Everything I look at my engine from the pass side it seams like it is closer to the pass side than the drivers side.

Even looking at the fan to shroud placement it seams like it is tilting left.

I checked the motor mounts they seam to be fine. maybe the last person put different one on?

anyone else ever have this issue..ill post a pic tomorrow. 

Jason




|UPDATED|9/28/2012 3:39:06 PM (AZT)|/UPDATED|


____________________________________
1975 Corvette Coupe 
My first Vette.....trying to fix stuff

My Project:
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9/28/12 2:14am - Reply: 'Re: Engine cockeyed'
daveo76
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Vancouver, WA - USA

Vette(s):
1976 Silver/Firethorn. L48, 4spd. Original 2 bolt, vortec heads, 9.4:1 CR, Speed Pro Cam: 224/224@0.050, 112 LSA, Eagle Steel Crank.

Joined: 8/25/2005
Posts: 830
I kind of did when I put my motor in this summer.  I initially used cheaper parts store motor mounts and ended up having all kinds of trouble lining things up.   The problem was that the mounts were much wider than the frame brackets, thus allowing too much play.  I actually got up above and in front of the engine bay (hood was off) and could see that it was cock-eyed.  Solved the problem by taking back the cheapo mounts and installing a set of Energy Suspension mounts that fit perfectly.  Not sure if this could be causing your issue, but maybe....

____________________________________

 

1976 Silver/Firethorn.  L48, 4spd.  Original 2 bolt, vortec heads, 9.4:1 CR, Speed Pro Cam: 224/224@0.050, 112 LSA, Eagle Steel Crank.
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9/28/12 6:37am - Reply: 'Re: Engine cockeyed'
Sarge81 Lifetime Member
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WEST SENECA, NY - USA

Vette(s):
1981 Blue Ice Met. w/pearl ghost flames TKO500 5speed. LS1 Swap 3.45 Dana 44.

Joined: 12/3/2001
Posts: 2376
The engines on C3's were offset to the passenger side by little over 1".

From the things I read over the years, some say it was to compensate for drivers weight. Then some say it was to allow for extra foot room on the drivers side for the pedals.

I would think it was to allow room for the steering box. There ain't much there.  I can attest to that since I was putting a new Borgeson steering box in my vette last night.


____________________________________

GEN III 5.7L "LS6" Engine swap
TKO500 5 spd.
3.54 Dana 44
'69 "N11" Sidepipes
Borgeson Steering Box
Born 8/1981
Sequence #3975




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9/28/12 7:32am - Reply: 'Re: Engine cockeyed'
Adams' Apple Lifetime Member
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Duncanville, TX - USA

Vette(s):
#1-1974 L-48 4spd Cp Med Red Metallic/Black deluxe int w/AC/tilt/tele./p/w-p/b/ Am-Fm/map light National/Regional/Chapter NCRS "Top Flight" #2-1985 Bright Red/Carmine Cp.L-98/auto Member: NCRS, NCRS Texas, Corvette Legends of Texas

Joined: 11/8/2003
Posts: 19449
Yup....the engines/drivetrains are off-set to the pass side, to clear the steering box, and the cars were designed that way even before the big blocks came into play. Remember, the chassis was designed waaaay back for the '63 cars.
It also helps with clearance for the transmissions, especially 4 speeds, and their linkages. Thumbs Up


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Joel Adams
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9/28/12 8:00am - Reply: 'Re: Engine cockeyed'
manchestershark Lifetime Member
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Equinunk, PA - USA

Vette(s):
1972 conv, 4-speed, 350, 200hp, numbers match, rally wheels, war bonnett yellow w/white top. good condition, nice driver.

Joined: 10/31/2007
Posts: 1895
Never paid much attention to the engine, but know the transmission sets closer to the tunnel on the passenger side. Not much room for the aluminum heat shield and the speedo cable.

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9/28/12 9:09am - Reply: 'Re: Engine cockeyed'
ebo Lifetime Member
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Holland Patent, NY - USA

Vette(s):
#1 *1980 White, Red interior 14,000 mile #2 *1980 Red, Oyster interior 93,000 miles Resto project car, rebuilt to 383 stroker

Joined: 6/3/2008
Posts: 4395
Sarge81 said:  I can attest to that since I was putting a new Borgeson steering box in my vette last night.

Thats just WRONG!
You tease!
You better start a thread on that! Looks like that is my next adventure on the red project car....
Evil Smileebo


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9/28/12 8:02pm - Reply: 'Re: Engine cockeyed'
DaveM Lifetime Member
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Flanders, NJ - USA

Vette(s):
1982 Black, ZZ4, Hooker Side Pipes, 3.55 Rear, Rebuilt & upgraded 700R4, All new suspension, brakes, & new Charcoal interior.

Joined: 1/27/2004
Posts: 2530
Sarge81 said: The engines on C3's were offset to the passenger side by little over 1".

From the things I read over the years, some say it was to compensate for drivers weight. Then some say it was to allow for extra foot room on the drivers side for the pedals.

I would think it was to allow room for the steering box. There ain't much there.  I can attest to that since I was putting a new Borgeson steering box in my vette last night.


me too, me too. Let us know how it went.
Dave


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Lifetime Member #116
Dave's '82


   
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9/28/12 9:07pm - Reply: 'Re: Engine cockeyed'
daveo76
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Vancouver, WA - USA

Vette(s):
1976 Silver/Firethorn. L48, 4spd. Original 2 bolt, vortec heads, 9.4:1 CR, Speed Pro Cam: 224/224@0.050, 112 LSA, Eagle Steel Crank.

Joined: 8/25/2005
Posts: 830
Something doesn't look right based on that picture, unless it's just from the camera angle.  I'd look more closely at those motor mounts.  

Joel: could you explain the engine offset thing a little more?  This is good trivia, but I'm confused cause I thought the half shafts were identical lengths.  If the engine centerline was offset from the car's centerline, wouldn't the half shafts need to be different lengths?  


____________________________________

 

1976 Silver/Firethorn.  L48, 4spd.  Original 2 bolt, vortec heads, 9.4:1 CR, Speed Pro Cam: 224/224@0.050, 112 LSA, Eagle Steel Crank.
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9/28/12 9:15pm - Reply: 'Re: Engine cockeyed'
DaveM Lifetime Member
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Flanders, NJ - USA

Vette(s):
1982 Black, ZZ4, Hooker Side Pipes, 3.55 Rear, Rebuilt & upgraded 700R4, All new suspension, brakes, & new Charcoal interior.

Joined: 1/27/2004
Posts: 2530
The rear end is on center, the drive shaft u-joints make up for the offset.
Dave


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9/28/12 10:36pm - Reply: 'Re: Engine cockeyed'
Adams' Apple Lifetime Member
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Duncanville, TX - USA

Vette(s):
#1-1974 L-48 4spd Cp Med Red Metallic/Black deluxe int w/AC/tilt/tele./p/w-p/b/ Am-Fm/map light National/Regional/Chapter NCRS "Top Flight" #2-1985 Bright Red/Carmine Cp.L-98/auto Member: NCRS, NCRS Texas, Corvette Legends of Texas

Joined: 11/8/2003
Posts: 19449
The pic looks weird, I'll give ya that. but it's hard to really tell from a pic. It's possible the trans mount is off/broken, and that could cause the front of the engine to shift farther to one side or the other.

As far as the mechanics of moving the drivetrain to one side or the other, it has to be "in line", meaning if the front of the engine is moved over, the trans has to move over the same amount. As long as the differential yoke is parallel to the centerline of the engine/trans, it poses no problems. If, however, the engine/trans is angled, and the diff yoke is NOT parallel, you wind up with some serious driveline vibrations. U-joints are designed to allow the off-set of drivelines, without binding. IF the angle of the trans, and the angle of the diff are off, it will vibrate. It doesn't matter if the centerlines are off....the problem is the angles.
So, if, for instance, say the trans mount is broken, and the rear of the trans is shifted to one side...the driveshaft will vibrate because the angles are off.
If you simply move the engine/trans to one side and equal amount, and the engine/trans is aligned front/rear, there will be no problems with vibrations, as the u-joints will work as designed. Think of a regular, rear wheel drive vehicle...the diff moves up/down as you travel over bumps/dips. By design, the angle of the diff yoke, and the angle of the tailshaft of the trans is the same, or within a couple of degrees of each other. This makes the u-joints work properly, and not have any driveline vibrations. IF, however, you wanna jack up the suspension on yer 4x4 truck, you mess with the angles between the trans and the diff yoke...and you get vibrations, and u-joint bind. On 4x4s that are jacked up, the diffs usually have wedges installed on the springs, to return the diff yoke angle back to "normal".
Same problem if you used air shocks back in the day to jack the rear of your Chevelle up...you effectively changed the angle of the diff, and it makes the u-joints work hard to keep the driveshaft spinning smoothly...and they usually failed much sooner than they would have normally.

Bottom line is, as long as the angles of the engine/trans, and the diff yoke are the same, there will be no problems with the driveline. On our model Corvettes, the engine/trans is offset to one side a small amount, but on a straight line front/rear. Also, the height of the trans and diff do not change...they(the angles) stay the same, so the only work the u-joints do is for the side/side offset. Not a problem.

Hope this helps, and is not even more confusing. I ain't that good at 'splaining stuff like this...it's easier for me to show how it works, than describe how it works. Good thing I ain't a teacher....LOL


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Joel Adams
C3VR Lifetime Member #56    
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             NCRS

"Money can't buy happiness -- but somehow it's more comforting to cry in a CORVETTE than in a Kia"
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9/29/12 1:53am - Reply: 'Re: Engine cockeyed'
ROCKRDR
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Lakeside, AZ - USA

Vette(s):
1975 C3 Stingray

Joined: 7/23/2012
Posts: 126
The pis is pretty straight on.. I got the car like this.. I noticed that the right side of the shroud was missing...broke??? the fan hit something has dings and a wobble.

didnt notice anything driving it down the road, vibration wise but I only drove it 2 miles home..

I'll have to check the trans mount..I didnt check that one Pinch all I can say putting on the headers with the eng like this is going to be a real pita Angry!!!

so I'll check what you guys say and see.. i'll let cha know.. 

Thanks for the help


____________________________________
1975 Corvette Coupe 
My first Vette.....trying to fix stuff

My Project:
https://docs.google.com/folder/d/0B6uOAIjGf3cWejQ5TjNkcVRybGs/edit
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9/30/12 9:30pm - Reply: 'Re: Engine cockeyed'
73shark
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Overland Park, KS - USA

Vette(s):
1973 Orange Metallic Coupe (orig owner), L82, 4 spd (WR), PS, (A/C & PW (I installed from wrecked 73)), leather, AM/FM Stereo, ran with '65 FI unit earlier & will again some day.

Joined: 7/9/2003
Posts: 381
Both times I put headers on mine, I did it from below.  Lot easier.

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1973 L-82 4 spd

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