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5/30/12 1:10pm - Original Message: 'Engine coming out! Bad Cam Lobe!'
68vet427
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macedon, NY - USA

Vette(s):
68 COUPE 454 HAS MOTION HOOD SCOOP, REVERSED GILLS ZL-1 FENDER FLARES AND MOTION REAR SPOILER, LEMAN'S GAS CAP, BUCKET HEADLIGHTS. CAN-AM FRONT RACING SPOILER. CHROME HOOKER HEADERS AND SIDE PIPES! 4 SPEED M20, LOOKS FAST STANDING STILL !!

Joined: 7/20/2006
Posts: 356
Well,
I got close to 700 miles on the beast, only to have a bad cam, lobe went flat. (It was an expensive one but even they can go bad)
We start the tear down to pull the engine out tonite.
Nice part is, the gentleman that did the machine work on my engine is backing it up 100%.
All I have to do is labor of tearing down, helping pull it out , and reassembly of the engine.
He's going to rebuild the engine, putting in new cam, complete bearings, rings, ect...
He also said he is going to put in roller lifters instead of the flat ones. He said it should be 2 weeks for completion.
 
The plan is to leave the tranny (M20) and bell housing in the car and just pull engine, 454 big block.
Has anyone done it this way???
 
Thanks,
Joe
 
 
 
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5/30/12 9:30pm - Reply: 'Re: Engine coming out! Bad Cam Lobe!'
ebo Lifetime Member
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Holland Patent, NY - USA

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#1 *1980 White, Red interior 14,000 mile #2 *1980 Red, Oyster interior 93,000 miles Resto project car, rebuilt to 383 stroker

Joined: 6/3/2008
Posts: 4395
Joe, thats bites the big one! So sorry. I pulled my 350 that way myself went in from the passenger side tire. No problem at all. remove dist cap so you don't crack it. Pull the dist even better.
Glad to hear he is standing behind it. Good luck.
Evil Smileebo


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5/30/12 10:34pm - Reply: 'Re: Engine coming out! Bad Cam Lobe!'
Jaws79 Lifetime Member
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Sykesville, MD - USA

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1979 Corvette Coupe Corvette Light Blue Midnight Blue interior Mirrored Glass T-tops

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Man, Joe, that really stinks! Glad the guy is standing behind his work! Better have it ready for Carlisle!
 
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5/30/12 10:45pm - Reply: 'Re: Engine coming out! Bad Cam Lobe!'
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Duncanville, TX - USA

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#1-1974 L-48 4spd Cp Med Red Metallic/Black deluxe int w/AC/tilt/tele./p/w-p/b/ Am-Fm/map light National/Regional/Chapter NCRS "Top Flight" #2-1985 Bright Red/Carmine Cp.L-98/auto Member: NCRS, NCRS Texas, Corvette Legends of Texas

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Oh NO Joe...say it ain't SO?

Man, that bites a big fat one. Usually, a cam lobe that goes bad that quick is usually due to improper break-in, no moly on the cam/lifters when installed, or, in rare instances, a lifter that is binding up in it's bore, and not spinning as it should. Could also have been a cam that wasn't hardened properly. I have also gotten cams that were not ground just right, and the lifters just would not spin, due to the incorrect lobe profile...

Glad he's gunna stand behind it, but it still sux...Cry


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5/31/12 8:12am - Reply: 'Re: Engine coming out! Bad Cam Lobe!'
68vet427
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macedon, NY - USA

Vette(s):
68 COUPE 454 HAS MOTION HOOD SCOOP, REVERSED GILLS ZL-1 FENDER FLARES AND MOTION REAR SPOILER, LEMAN'S GAS CAP, BUCKET HEADLIGHTS. CAN-AM FRONT RACING SPOILER. CHROME HOOKER HEADERS AND SIDE PIPES! 4 SPEED M20, LOOKS FAST STANDING STILL !!

Joined: 7/20/2006
Posts: 356
Adams' Apple said: Oh NO Joe...say it ain't SO?

Man, that bites a big fat one. Usually, a cam lobe that goes bad that quick is usually due to improper break-in, no moly on the cam/lifters when installed, or, in rare instances, a lifter that is binding up in it's bore, and not spinning as it should. Could also have been a cam that wasn't hardened properly. I have also gotten cams that were not ground just right, and the lifters just would not spin, due to the incorrect lobe profile...

Glad he's gunna stand behind it, but it still sux...Cry

We are quessing that it had to be a bad cam, all the lifters were lubed and checked for fit and rotation, I was there when it was done. Plus this guy is maticulus, precision machinist by trade, and has been building engine since he was 16. (he's 17 now) (just kidding!!!) Anyway, he does not rush a build, he takes his time and rechecks everything.
Car was taken to his shop last night. Tear down will be tonite.
Joe  



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5/31/12 11:55am - Reply: 'Re: Engine coming out! Bad Cam Lobe!'
dwright Gold Member
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Victor, NY - USA

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2004 Commemorative Edition Coupe, Auto w/HUD. 13K miles in 2015. Sold 1982 Red Coupe

Joined: 7/12/2004
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Joe,
Sorry to read the bad news.
How did you know the cam went bad?
Will the cam manufacturer pay for the work or just a new cam?
I am hoping to get out to the Cabin some Wednesday night. Look for me if you are there.


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5/31/12 12:44pm - Reply: 'Re: Engine coming out! Bad Cam Lobe!'
68vet427
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macedon, NY - USA

Vette(s):
68 COUPE 454 HAS MOTION HOOD SCOOP, REVERSED GILLS ZL-1 FENDER FLARES AND MOTION REAR SPOILER, LEMAN'S GAS CAP, BUCKET HEADLIGHTS. CAN-AM FRONT RACING SPOILER. CHROME HOOKER HEADERS AND SIDE PIPES! 4 SPEED M20, LOOKS FAST STANDING STILL !!

Joined: 7/20/2006
Posts: 356
Dave,
I had my engine builder come over and i bumped the engine over while he checked the lift.
The one lobe was way off, more than a collaped lifter could be.
I have no idea if he can get a refund from the cam manufacturer, but there will be no cost to me.
I hope he can get it to help cover his costs. He's a great guy.
 
Yes, I'm sure i will see you some time at the cabin.
In a couple of weeks I'll be back down there. ( Had the Vette there a couple of times).
Joe


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5/31/12 1:11pm - Reply: 'Re: Engine coming out! Bad Cam Lobe!'
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COPPERAS COVE, TX - USA

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1972 corvette stingray convertible 2007 coupe

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I've seen this before and it was due to not having the correct oil for break-in all the new oil's are missing that ZDPP or Zinc, I have a friend that his didnt last 50 miles and wore down a lobe. Make sure they use the break-in oil and keep the ZDPP additive in the engine even after break-in.

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5/31/12 3:35pm - Reply: 'Re: Engine coming out! Bad Cam Lobe!'
dwright Gold Member
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Victor, NY - USA

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2004 Commemorative Edition Coupe, Auto w/HUD. 13K miles in 2015. Sold 1982 Red Coupe

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I have an '82.
According to some repair bills the PO gave me, it got a new cam at around 60k miles.
I believe GM had some soft cams back in the '80s.
Should I put in a zinc additive with every oil change?
Or is there a special oil we need to use?
 


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5/31/12 4:11pm - Reply: 'Re: Engine coming out! Bad Cam Lobe!'
yostusota
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York, PA - USA

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1969 daytona conv. all original 350 350 380 4 sp w/air..and hard top

Joined: 5/18/2010
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Dave..check the site for the oil debate..there's tons out there..yes there is oil you should be using..Brad Penn and Valvoline VR1 are some but there are a bunch..you shouldn't need to add the additive if your oil already has it in it though. Sorry to hear about your motor..I guess you never know how things will work out even with the best parts..hope it goes back together fast and with no problems..

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5/31/12 6:50pm - Reply: 'Re: Engine coming out! Bad Cam Lobe!'
corvette440hp Lifetime Member
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I agree with Joel on the hardening or lack of. I had the same problem with a set of 4:56 gears that weren't treated from GM. The Vette was in warranty so the dealer had to install the gearset. The car was ordered with 4:56, but somehow came thru with 3:36. After the install I picked up the car on Friday, drove to the strip on Sunday, made many runs. On the way home it sounded like a cop with his siren blaring following me. Monday drove back to the Chevy dealer. They told me the gears weren't hardened.....................(or maybe not installed right?) You will be a lot safer with a roller cam.  All the best to you.............and I believe in your engine builder!Thumbs Up 

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6/1/12 9:55am - Reply: 'Re: Engine coming out! Bad Cam Lobe!'
68vet427
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macedon, NY - USA

Vette(s):
68 COUPE 454 HAS MOTION HOOD SCOOP, REVERSED GILLS ZL-1 FENDER FLARES AND MOTION REAR SPOILER, LEMAN'S GAS CAP, BUCKET HEADLIGHTS. CAN-AM FRONT RACING SPOILER. CHROME HOOKER HEADERS AND SIDE PIPES! 4 SPEED M20, LOOKS FAST STANDING STILL !!

Joined: 7/20/2006
Posts: 356
Thanks for all the encouragement!
Got the engine stripped down, headers off last night.
Tonite we pull the radiator and hood. (Could not do those by myself)
We will also pull  the engine tonite!
Keep me in prayer all goes smoothly with no accidents or damage!
Joe


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6/1/12 11:47am - Reply: 'Re: Engine coming out! Bad Cam Lobe!'
nosal1 Gold Member
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Dunedin, FL - USA

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1980 Corvette Torch Red with Gold metallic 370HP/350 CU.IN.Turbo 350 w/shift kit.Originally CA.Car with 305 CU.IN.

Joined: 3/21/2006
Posts: 223

Good Afternoon All, As in a new engine break in procedure (now with the advent of lube oil without ZDDP in the formula) the cam manufactures are now putting in the cam order a bottle of ZDDP and a disclaimer of the effects on a flat tappet cam and lifters..There is a break in procedure for rear gears of a rear end and is stated in a break in procedure that the gear supplier and or the shop who does this type of work would have copies of the procedure.It is lengthy but insures the longevity of the gears,Please ask Vetter Bob how important it is to break in the rear gears properly..Have a great day all.     Sal C



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6/1/12 12:04pm - Reply: 'Re: Engine coming out! Bad Cam Lobe!'
nosal1 Gold Member
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Dunedin, FL - USA

Vette(s):
1980 Corvette Torch Red with Gold metallic 370HP/350 CU.IN.Turbo 350 w/shift kit.Originally CA.Car with 305 CU.IN.

Joined: 3/21/2006
Posts: 223
What is the break-in procedure for a new set of gears?
  
  All new gear sets require a break-in period to prevent damage from overheating. After driving the first 15 or 20 miles it is best to let the differential cool before proceeding. I recommend at least 500 miles before towing. I also recommend towing for very short distances (less than 15 miles) and letting the differential cool before continuing during the first 45 towing miles. This may seem unnecessary but I have seen many differentials damaged from being loaded before the gear set was broken in.
I also recommend changing the gear oil after the first 500 miles. This will remove any metal particles or phosphorus coating that has come from the new gear set.

This is the format for rear end gear break in procedure as is recommended by Richmond,Eaton and several other manufactures of Gears and differentials.Sal C 



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6/1/12 12:09pm - Reply: 'Re: Engine coming out! Bad Cam Lobe!'
68vet427
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macedon, NY - USA

Vette(s):
68 COUPE 454 HAS MOTION HOOD SCOOP, REVERSED GILLS ZL-1 FENDER FLARES AND MOTION REAR SPOILER, LEMAN'S GAS CAP, BUCKET HEADLIGHTS. CAN-AM FRONT RACING SPOILER. CHROME HOOKER HEADERS AND SIDE PIPES! 4 SPEED M20, LOOKS FAST STANDING STILL !!

Joined: 7/20/2006
Posts: 356
nosal1 said: What is the break-in procedure for a new set of gears?
  
  All new gear sets require a break-in period to prevent damage from overheating. After driving the first 15 or 20 miles it is best to let the differential cool before proceeding. I recommend at least 500 miles before towing. I also recommend towing for very short distances (less than 15 miles) and letting the differential cool before continuing during the first 45 towing miles. This may seem unnecessary but I have seen many differentials damaged from being loaded before the gear set was broken in.
I also recommend changing the gear oil after the first 500 miles. This will remove any metal particles or phosphorus coating that has come from the new gear set.

This is the format for rear end gear break in procedure as is recommended by Richmond,Eaton and several other manufactures of Gears and differentials.Sal C 


What is it for lifters?

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6/1/12 1:15pm - Reply: 'Re: Engine coming out! Bad Cam Lobe!'
nosal1 Gold Member
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Dunedin, FL - USA

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1980 Corvette Torch Red with Gold metallic 370HP/350 CU.IN.Turbo 350 w/shift kit.Originally CA.Car with 305 CU.IN.

Joined: 3/21/2006
Posts: 223

  Engine Start Up Procedure Regarding
        Oil/Additive Usage in Flat Tappet Cam/Lifters
 

 

 With the absence of lubricating chemical (ZDDP) in the present day

     

Oil from the oil companies available to consumer for typical oil changes

 

It is highly recommended to add or use oil with the ZDDP available

 

In the oil you purchase. The Zinc Phosphate combination acts as a

 

 Lubricating agent to reduce friction on the lobes and base of the lifters.

 

The EPA had mandated that these products (chemicals) be eliminated as it

 

Deteriorated the catalytic converter thereby increasing pollution.EPA

 

Sacrificed the metallic parts of the cam/lifters for the life of the converter.

 

The late model engines now have Roller Cams and Lifters and do not

 

Require the ZDDP albeit I would recommend using the additive or buy

 

Oil with zinc phosphate available in the formulation.

 

 To help identify the oil with ZDDP in the formulation, look for the

 

Round badge on the oil container that signifies API Service CI-4/SI

 

CI-4 Plus would also be indicated.

 

            Be aware without the use of this type of additive or oil containing ZDDP during break in of cam/lifters along with normal operation of the engine would void the warranties you may have received from builder of the engine along with/cam/lifter manufactures.

A quick break in procedure for newly built engines is : Use a quality 30W oil add 1 ZDDP(one of many new brands of zinc Phosphate) 8-9 oz. bottle(I think that is the size of the product)added to the required amount of oil for your engine,plus a good oil filter be sure to have an oil pressure gauge and temp gauge active in the car or start up stand(which I use)and be sure to have plenty of cooling fan available(new engines run warmer until broke in)and unplug the power to the distributor and rotate the engine for 5-8 SECONDS to insure you have oil to all sides and lube holes with oil,then put power to the distributor and fire the engine(be sure to have it advanced to make sure it starts.

    New engines like a lot of advance timing not to exceed 14 degrees without vacuum advance connected)..DO NOT ALLOW TO IDLE AT A LOW RPM LIKE 600-1000 RPM,take the RPM up to 2400-2600 rpm for a minimum of 22 minutes or 25 minutes.allow to cool (30 minutes)then start it with a timing light and vacuum gauge connect to maximum vacuum either from the intake(the best)or the metered port on the carb to measure and set timing to the max vacuum.As you increase the vacuum you also increase the timing,however you have to keep reducing the carb idle to 750-800 while doing the vacuum adjustment.Then set you timing as you wish to run all the time..

     After you have set everything to your desire then drain all fluids and change oil fiter and oil to what you will be running in the engine..

   The Performance engines I run is usually set at 14 degrees static (without vac advance as I do not run vacuum advance in my distributors)with a total of 34-36 degrees..

     These parameters will different for BBC and 383 strokers as I set the 383 at a static of 18 and rework the springs of the mechanical advance.    I hope this helps to answer you queries and if you wish you can send a PM of any other questions..I have built so many engines and sometimes I forget somethings need to be said.. I Guess this wasn't as brief as it should have been..

             Take care and have a great day...   Sal C



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6/1/12 1:22pm - Reply: 'Re: Engine coming out! Bad Cam Lobe!'
Adams' Apple Lifetime Member
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Duncanville, TX - USA

Vette(s):
#1-1974 L-48 4spd Cp Med Red Metallic/Black deluxe int w/AC/tilt/tele./p/w-p/b/ Am-Fm/map light National/Regional/Chapter NCRS "Top Flight" #2-1985 Bright Red/Carmine Cp.L-98/auto Member: NCRS, NCRS Texas, Corvette Legends of Texas

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Flat tappet cams should have moly lube on the cam lobes and bottoms of lifters. Once the engine is ready to be started, it should be run at at least 2500 rpms for around 15-20 minutes...some say 30 minutes. You need to make sure the cooling system is full and working, the timing and carb settings are correct enough to run without the engine dying. Hard to do, a lot of times, but that's what it requires.
Using a break-in oil with high levels of ZDDP is also a good idea...for break-in. After that, a lower level of ZDDP can be used. And, nosal is right...MOST cam manufacturers do include a bottle of break-in lube...some even include the correct moly lube for the cam/lifer install.


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6/1/12 1:23pm - Reply: 'Re: Engine coming out! Bad Cam Lobe!'
nosal1 Gold Member
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Dunedin, FL - USA

Vette(s):
1980 Corvette Torch Red with Gold metallic 370HP/350 CU.IN.Turbo 350 w/shift kit.Originally CA.Car with 305 CU.IN.

Joined: 3/21/2006
Posts: 223

In my previous post the statement regarding connecting the vacuum gauge is supposed to read:

        "UNMETERED port on carb not METERED port".

  Sorry I can build engines a lot better that type... Sal C



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6/1/12 2:49pm - Reply: 'Re: Engine coming out! Bad Cam Lobe!'
lukesvette Lifetime Member
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HOWELL, NJ - USA

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1979, Targa Blue (72 Color), Pace Car rear spoiler, L88 hood, Dark blue factory interior, 525HP 406, HD 700R4, 370 gears,Steeroids, composite rear spring, TT IIs wrapped in T/A Radials.

Joined: 5/18/2004
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If you go with a regular hydraulic cam and lifters, follow the procedures Joel mentioned above. And be careful if you have nice coated headers. They will be glowing cherry red.

Also, make sure valves are adjusted well before breaking in.


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6/1/12 3:38pm - Reply: 'Re: Engine coming out! Bad Cam Lobe!'
68vet427
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macedon, NY - USA

Vette(s):
68 COUPE 454 HAS MOTION HOOD SCOOP, REVERSED GILLS ZL-1 FENDER FLARES AND MOTION REAR SPOILER, LEMAN'S GAS CAP, BUCKET HEADLIGHTS. CAN-AM FRONT RACING SPOILER. CHROME HOOKER HEADERS AND SIDE PIPES! 4 SPEED M20, LOOKS FAST STANDING STILL !!

Joined: 7/20/2006
Posts: 356
lukesvette said: If you go with a regular hydraulic cam and lifters, follow the procedures Joel mentioned above. And be careful if you have nice coated headers. They will be glowing cherry red.

Also, make sure valves are adjusted well before breaking in.


Paul

Paul,
going with roller cam lifters.
The pipes i'm sure will still be hot !
Joe



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