Home page
SPONSOR AD

Support our Vendors!  |  Advertise Here

Topic: starter and heat

in Forum: C3 Engines


Already a Member?
Login
Not yet a Member?
Register for Free!

starter and heat (1/13)
 8/19/14 1:33pm
Lilfur
Former Member

Send Private Message

Elyria, OH - USA

Vette(s):
1968 convertable - 427 B.B. International Blue exterior - Dark Blue interior - Power Steering - Power Brakes - Dual Quad Carbs - 4 speed - Power windows


Joined: 3/25/2006
Posts: 13

I have a 68 big block/427. After the car has been running for awhile , when I stop car , and try to restart, it cranks over so slow. However after the car has sat for awhile and cooled down starts up right away. I have shielded the starter from the engine, and even replaced the starter, NO change. I have a friend who mentioned that these new style hi torgue starters can take the heat, and work well with this situation. Any idieas ?
Our Sponsors help support C3VR
Re: starter and heat (2/13)
 8/19/14 2:00pm
Adams' AppleLifetime Member
Lifetime Member
Moderator
Send Private Message

Duncanville, TX - USA

Vette(s):
#1-1974 L-48 4spd Cp Med Red Metallic/Black deluxe int w/AC/tilt/tele./p/w-p/b/ Am-Fm/map light National/Regional/Chapter NCRS "Top Flight" #2-1985 Bright Red/Carmine Cp.L-98/auto Member: NCRS, NCRS Texas, Corvette Legends of Texas


Joined: 11/8/2003
Posts: 20126

 
Chances are the problem is with the solenoid, and not the starter itself.....assuming there is a problem with the starter at all. Is the engine running hotter than "normal"? Does it "ping" when under a light load(cruizing speed)?
If the ignition timing is too far advanced, you'll get this exact same problem when trying to start a hot engine. One method to determine if it is a timing issue, or starter issue is to try this.....
Next time it cranks slowly, pump the crap out of the throttle 4-5 times, then try to start it. If it starts then, you have a timing issue. The massive volume of raw fuel in the intake will COOL the combustion chambers, and allow the engine to crank properly. It may sound crude, or like an old wives' tale, but it works.
If it doesn't do any good, then you have a heat soak issue with the starter/solenoid. If you are not concerned with keeping the car 100% original, you can install a....ahem...FORD starter solenoid on the firewall/fenderwell area, do a little simple re-wiring at the GM solenoid, and eliminate the heat soak issue for good.
Big smile

______________

Joel Adams
C3VR Lifetime Member #56    

My Link


(click for Texas-sized view!)
             NCRS

"Money can't buy happiness -- but somehow it's more comforting to cry in a CORVETTE than in a Kia"

Re: starter and heat (3/13)
 8/19/14 2:12pm
Lilfur
Former Member

Send Private Message

Elyria, OH - USA

Vette(s):
1968 convertable - 427 B.B. International Blue exterior - Dark Blue interior - Power Steering - Power Brakes - Dual Quad Carbs - 4 speed - Power windows


Joined: 3/25/2006
Posts: 13

Thank you for responding. I have tried the pumping gas, no good. Also have purchased a new starter with the same results as the old one was. The car is a hot running big block but not more than the norm. Have you heard anything about these new hi-torqe starters?
Re: starter and heat (4/13)
 8/19/14 4:09pm
Adams' AppleLifetime Member
Lifetime Member
Moderator
Send Private Message

Duncanville, TX - USA

Vette(s):
#1-1974 L-48 4spd Cp Med Red Metallic/Black deluxe int w/AC/tilt/tele./p/w-p/b/ Am-Fm/map light National/Regional/Chapter NCRS "Top Flight" #2-1985 Bright Red/Carmine Cp.L-98/auto Member: NCRS, NCRS Texas, Corvette Legends of Texas


Joined: 11/8/2003
Posts: 20126

High torque starters are great. Smaller to begin with,so that helps get them a little further away from the exhaust heat.
They sometimes are a pita to get set up properly, since they are designed to bolt up to several different engine/flywheel combos. Other than that, they seem to be the cat's meow for a lot of folks. Several guys here have used them. Thumbs Up

Back in the day(hunnert years ago), we were always having the same problem with starter heat issues on the race cars. Then we learned the trick about using the Ford solenoid.....NEVER had another hot start problem after that. Of course, there were none of these fancy schmancy high torques starters out there at the time.....Dead

______________

Joel Adams
C3VR Lifetime Member #56    

My Link


(click for Texas-sized view!)
             NCRS

"Money can't buy happiness -- but somehow it's more comforting to cry in a CORVETTE than in a Kia"

Re: starter and heat (5/13)
 8/20/14 8:05am
knotacare
Former Member

Send Private Message

Newark, DE - USA

Vette(s):
1968 Conv, 454HO,500HP-600TQ, TKO-600,3:70 HD rear,hotrod air, custom paint & suspension,1973 Ruby Red,T-top, 383 Stroker, TK)-500,frame off restro, 1967 Dodge Coronet, 340 stroker to 406, Dana 60


Joined: 7/26/2004
Posts: 463

I've had a mini starter in my BB 68 vet & my 67 Dodge for many years now...no problems and had the same problems you are experiencing.  I would also check  or just replace the battery cables.  The red one will corrode over time. They tend to go bad over the years & don't allow enough current to flow especially under hot conditions. This is a common GM problem in the 60's & 70's.  Make sure your grounds from the battery to the frame & the ground to the engine & starter are good & clean. Putting 2  7" spal fans on the frame just behind the frt tires really helps to suck the heat out of theses BB cars.
Alan


______________

                                               

Re: starter and heat (6/13)
 8/20/14 11:50am
74-454Lifetime Member
Lifetime Member
Send Private Message

, - Canada

Vette(s):
Coupe 74 - 454 Drive it like you stole it!


Joined: 8/6/2004
Posts: 533

Had the same problem with my 74 BB.  If I stopped the car on a hot day or after driving for a while, I knew I'd stay where ever I was for another 1 1/2hr until it cools down enough.  A bit of a pain when it's unexpected.  You learn to bring snacks & water just in case.

I first replaced the solenoid with a parts store brand and it was intermittent; problem was not entirely fixed.  So I swapped my starter with a rebuilt one from an ACDelco supplier.  Less than 100$ after core exchange.  That fixed the starting issue, but not the heat of course.  Eventually replacing the radiator for an aluminium one with new hoses and new thermostats completed the fix.

Ditto on the connections; if they don't look too bad, a cleaning and light sanding of the contact points might make it better.


Re: starter and heat (7/13)
 8/20/14 1:01pm
Adams' AppleLifetime Member
Lifetime Member
Moderator
Send Private Message

Duncanville, TX - USA

Vette(s):
#1-1974 L-48 4spd Cp Med Red Metallic/Black deluxe int w/AC/tilt/tele./p/w-p/b/ Am-Fm/map light National/Regional/Chapter NCRS "Top Flight" #2-1985 Bright Red/Carmine Cp.L-98/auto Member: NCRS, NCRS Texas, Corvette Legends of Texas


Joined: 11/8/2003
Posts: 20126

knotacare said:  Putting 2  7" spal fans on the frame just behind the frt tires really helps to suck the heat out of theses BB cars.
Alan


Otay...now ya got my attention! Alan, have you done this? Got any pics? Sounds like a neat mod! Big smile


______________

Joel Adams
C3VR Lifetime Member #56    

My Link


(click for Texas-sized view!)
             NCRS

"Money can't buy happiness -- but somehow it's more comforting to cry in a CORVETTE than in a Kia"

Re: starter and heat (8/13)
 8/20/14 1:07pm
Lilfur
Former Member

Send Private Message

Elyria, OH - USA

Vette(s):
1968 convertable - 427 B.B. International Blue exterior - Dark Blue interior - Power Steering - Power Brakes - Dual Quad Carbs - 4 speed - Power windows


Joined: 3/25/2006
Posts: 13

I am not sure what you mean in a (mini starter) ?
Re: starter and heat (9/13)
 8/20/14 1:25pm
Adams' AppleLifetime Member
Lifetime Member
Moderator
Send Private Message

Duncanville, TX - USA

Vette(s):
#1-1974 L-48 4spd Cp Med Red Metallic/Black deluxe int w/AC/tilt/tele./p/w-p/b/ Am-Fm/map light National/Regional/Chapter NCRS "Top Flight" #2-1985 Bright Red/Carmine Cp.L-98/auto Member: NCRS, NCRS Texas, Corvette Legends of Texas


Joined: 11/8/2003
Posts: 20126

 The "Mini" starters today are small in size, but big on torque. The old, "High Torque" GM starters are the same as the "normal" starters, but have a larger field winding. If you have a big block, it has a factory high torque starter on it....or at least it did originally. If it has been swapped sometime in the past, it may have a normal starter on it. You can tell a high torque GM starter by the length of the terminal on the solenoid that connects to the starter field winding. A high torque starter has a longer terminal, due to the connection being farther back on the starter body. I'll see if I can dig up a pic or two....



Here's a comparison of the Mini and stock starters....



______________

Joel Adams
C3VR Lifetime Member #56    

My Link


(click for Texas-sized view!)
             NCRS

"Money can't buy happiness -- but somehow it's more comforting to cry in a CORVETTE than in a Kia"

Re: starter and heat (10/13)
 8/21/14 7:50am
knotacare
Former Member

Send Private Message

Newark, DE - USA

Vette(s):
1968 Conv, 454HO,500HP-600TQ, TKO-600,3:70 HD rear,hotrod air, custom paint & suspension,1973 Ruby Red,T-top, 383 Stroker, TK)-500,frame off restro, 1967 Dodge Coronet, 340 stroker to 406, Dana 60


Joined: 7/26/2004
Posts: 463

Yes I did this mod many yrs ago right after I bought the 68. It had a 427 w/12.5-1 compression, 2.5 " headers going to a 4" collector, solid lifter & side pipes. It was used in racing & was way to mean for me, but it created a lot of heat so I figured out how to get rid of it..sorta like what Nascar does in there cars. I'll look for the link on my forum as I think it was about 10+ yrs ago. I rarely need them now, but on a real hot day it helps. I thought I posted it here too but I really don't remember.
Alan
I did this in 4/2003. They are 2 7" spal fans which move 500-700cfm ea (can't remember exactly). They are wired  to a relay that is powered & fused directly to the battery. I mounted the on/off switch under the windshield wiper switch for easy access. This setup really pulls the heat out of the engine compartment. Still works fine todayThumbs Up

Looking up the drivers side, notice the piece of metal to protect the fan

Looking up the passenger side

Looking down the passengers side



|UPDATED|8/21/2014 4:50:29 AM (AZT)|/UPDATED|


______________

                                               

Re: starter and heat (11/13)
 8/21/14 2:22pm
Lilfur
Former Member

Send Private Message

Elyria, OH - USA

Vette(s):
1968 convertable - 427 B.B. International Blue exterior - Dark Blue interior - Power Steering - Power Brakes - Dual Quad Carbs - 4 speed - Power windows


Joined: 3/25/2006
Posts: 13

Any recommendations on what mini starter to use ???
Re: starter and heat (12/13)
 8/21/14 5:39pm
knotacare
Former Member

Send Private Message

Newark, DE - USA

Vette(s):
1968 Conv, 454HO,500HP-600TQ, TKO-600,3:70 HD rear,hotrod air, custom paint & suspension,1973 Ruby Red,T-top, 383 Stroker, TK)-500,frame off restro, 1967 Dodge Coronet, 340 stroker to 406, Dana 60


Joined: 7/26/2004
Posts: 463

I personally have used expensive ones & cheaper ones. Never had a problem with any of them. They can be tricky sometimes to get lined up with the flywheel properly. My Dodge is a high HP engine with high compression & I purchased a cheap mini starter for it 5 yrs ago  & no problems.  I did wrap the header near the starter to keep the heat down.
Alan


______________

                                               

Re: starter and heat (13/13)
 8/22/14 11:40am
vettejackLifetime Member
Lifetime Member
Send Private Message

Titusville, FL - USA

Vette(s):
1977 Coupe (White), 2006 Convertible (Victory Red). NCM Life Member #2221.


Joined: 12/19/2007
Posts: 154

I had a starter problem a couple years back...finding out the armature was 'pulling' away from its ground when the starter was hot. I could always start the car, but I had to wait for the starter to cool down 20 to 30 minutes. You know this was aggravating. Censored The starter was original up to that point. So, I replaced the starter with a rebuild, added the shield, and wrapped the exhaust pipes from a little bit in front of the transmission to past the starter for a few inches. Problem solved. Hug

______________

Our Sponsors help support C3VR