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3/22/16 5:31pm - Original Message: 'Worn Cam... replace or too late '
apesa63
Former Member
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Hillsboro, OR - USA

Vette(s):
1975 L48 4sp. Coupe... Rebuilt Motor

Joined: 7/20/2015
Posts: 44
I had replaced the heads late last year and the car was running great. Lately it has been making a lot of valve train noise. I pulled the valve covers and found a rocker that I can no longer adjust, nut is tightened all the way. Pulled the intake and that lifter is sunk into the lifter bore a good 1/16 inch, So I need Cam and lifters. I have two choices, replace the Cam with the motor in the car. Or pull the motor and open the can of worms. 

My preference is to replace the cam. My concern is that all the metal that is ground off the cam lobe and lifter has contaminated the oil. I know I can swap the cam with the engine in the car by removing the radiator and hood, just wondering what others might have done. Can't really afford to deal with a rebuild right now.

Its had a lot of recent oil changes and I have always used zinc additive. Just drained the oil and it is pretty clean, thinking of dropping the pan to see whats inside.

tia, 
Pat


|UPDATED|3/22/2016 3:31:35 PM (AZT)|/UPDATED|


____________________________________
Daytona Yellow '75 350 Muncie 4 spd
'73 454 on the engine stand.


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3/22/16 8:56pm - Reply: 'Re: Worn Cam... replace or too late '
F4Gary Gold Member
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Grapevine, TX - USA

Vette(s):
1972 LT-1 convertible with factory air.

Joined: 8/26/2006
Posts: 869
Unless the cam has chunks out of it, I don't see the problem.  Replace the cam and use break in oil to break it in.




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3/23/16 5:24am - Reply: 'Re: Worn Cam... replace or too late '
Tomtall
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Vette(s):
1973 Coupe -- 454 / 4 speed - Black on Black, Greenwood aftermarket turbo hood, Greenwood GTO style front bumper.American Racing Vector rims.

Joined: 3/5/2016
Posts: 43
if it were me I would drop the pan, pull the oil pump cover and inspect for wear. The oil filter will trap a lot of your metal from the worn cam lobes but the pumpvis up steam of the filter. If the pump looks to be ok then I would drop #1 rod and main cap to inspect tge bearings for signs of wear.
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3/23/16 8:11am - Reply: 'Re: Worn Cam... replace or too late '
apesa63
Former Member
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Hillsboro, OR - USA

Vette(s):
1975 L48 4sp. Coupe... Rebuilt Motor

Joined: 7/20/2015
Posts: 44
I pulled the lifter out and it is a full 1/16th inch shorter than the others and it has a concave bottom from the cam lobe wearing it out. So there is some metal inside. Today I am going to get the front of the motor apart, pull the hood off and get the cam out and drop the pan.

Found an Edelbrock cam and lifter package for $180.00 and I could easily replace the oil pump since I am down to a short block w/o a pan. Not sure I want to disturb the rod bearings at this point. If the rod/main bearings are shot the motor is coming out.

This short block is stock and I want to rebuild it, but I can't really do it correctly until the summer when I have more time and money. I really just want to get it back on the road. Hopefully the bottom end is in decent shape.

Thanks for the replies.
Pat


____________________________________
Daytona Yellow '75 350 Muncie 4 spd
'73 454 on the engine stand.


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3/23/16 10:35am - Reply: 'Re: Worn Cam... replace or too late '
F4Gary Gold Member
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Grapevine, TX - USA

Vette(s):
1972 LT-1 convertible with factory air.

Joined: 8/26/2006
Posts: 869
Put in a roller cam and you won't have to worry about zinc anymore.  Plus you can reuse it when you do the overhaul this summer.

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3/23/16 12:09pm - Reply: 'Re: Worn Cam... replace or too late '
Adams' Apple Lifetime Member
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Duncanville, TX - USA

Vette(s):
#1-1974 L-48 4spd Cp Med Red Metallic/Black deluxe int w/AC/tilt/tele./p/w-p/b/ Am-Fm/map light National/Regional/Chapter NCRS "Top Flight" #2-1985 Bright Red/Carmine Cp.L-98/auto Member: NCRS, NCRS Texas, Corvette Legends of Texas

Joined: 11/8/2003
Posts: 19457
Back in the late '70s/early '80s, Chevy had a HUGE problem with the cams on small blocks. In the end, it was determines the cam lobes were never hardened properly from the supplier. I can't even begin to remember how many cams I swapped on '78-'79 cars back then, some with as few as 20,000 miles.
Going from memory, GM's recommendation(for the dealers) was to change the cam/lifters, flush the oil, change oil & filter. Run engine to break in cam, then change oil/filter again. Run engine another 30 minutes or so, then another oil/filter change. I doubt you have any other related damage to the engine, but you can make a decision on if you want to go any deeper once you get the oil pan off.
Be SURE when you do change the cam that it comes with a bottle of break-in lube. It should, but if it does not, GET SOME! Follow the manufacturer's break-in procedure to the letter. If the engine doesn't start right up after the cam change, don't keep cranking it...find out WHY it won't start.


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Joel Adams
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3/24/16 9:06am - Reply: 'Re: Worn Cam... replace or too late '
apesa63
Former Member
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Hillsboro, OR - USA

Vette(s):
1975 L48 4sp. Coupe... Rebuilt Motor

Joined: 7/20/2015
Posts: 44
I just ordered a cam from Edelbrock that matches the performer intake I have, Cam number 2117. It'll be here in 5 days or so. Meanwhile I just moved the car outside and degreased the underside of the engine, tranny and the front. Its much cleaner now and will be easier to work with. I am getting a new pan since the old one is beat up and I am going to go with a new oil pump.

I thought about dropping and cleaning the pan, remounting it w/o a gasket. draining new oil into the galley and down into the pan and then use the oil pump/distributor drive to run oil through the engine and through a new filter. Maybe do that twice to make sure most of the debris is out before installing the cam and buttoning it up.

Right now Its back in the heated garage drying off, I am going to get into the front of the motor and pan tomorrow after it is dried. We'll see what the pan looks like, I am going to look at the inside of the filter that just came off too. That oil was fairly new and I am hoping to see the filter holding most of the gunk..

@F4Gary, I considered a roller cam, but for this application a roller cam would be similar to putting lip stick on a pig and it would be another $200 that goes into this engine on top of what i already have in it. BTW, the F4 Phantom has and always will be my favorite military aircraft.



Thanks,
Pat


|UPDATED|3/24/2016 7:06:31 AM (AZT)|/UPDATED|


____________________________________
Daytona Yellow '75 350 Muncie 4 spd
'73 454 on the engine stand.


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3/23/16 5:07pm - Reply: 'Re: Worn Cam... replace or too late '
F4Gary Gold Member
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Grapevine, TX - USA

Vette(s):
1972 LT-1 convertible with factory air.

Joined: 8/26/2006
Posts: 869
apesa63 said: I just ordered a cam from Edelbrock that matches the performer intake I have, Cam number 2117. It'll be here in 5 days or so. Meanwhile I just moved the car outside and degreased the underside of the engine, tranny and the front. Its much cleaner now and will be easier to work with. I am getting a new pan since the old one is beat up and I am going to go with a new oil pump.

I thought about dropping and cleaning the pan, remounting it w/o a gasket. draining new oil into the galley and down into the pan and then use the oil pump/distributor drive to run oil through the engine and through a new filter. Maybe do that twice to make sure most of the debris is out before installing the cam and buttoning it up.

Right now Its back in the heated garage drying off, I am going to get into the front of the motor and pan tomorrow after it is dried. We'll see what the pan looks like, I am going to look at the inside of the filter that just came off too. That oil was fairly new and I am hoping to see the filter holding most of the gunk..

@F4Gary, I considered a roller cam, but for this application a roller cam would be similar to putting lip stick on a pig and it would be another $200 that goes into this engine on top of what i already have in it. BTW, the F4 Phantom has and always will be my favorite military aircraft.

Thanks,
Pat


Mine too! Thumbs Up


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4/1/16 4:17pm - Reply: 'Re: Worn Cam... replace or too late '
Trent Gold Member
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Bellefontaine, OH - USA

Vette(s):
1975 L-48 4spd Bright Blue tilt/tele/cruise/pw/Holly Carb.

Joined: 10/2/2014
Posts: 21
apesa63 said: I just ordered a cam from Edelbrock that matches the performer intake I have, Cam number 2117. It'll be here in 5 days or so. Meanwhile I just moved the car outside and degreased the underside of the engine, tranny and the front. Its much cleaner now and will be easier to work with. I am getting a new pan since the old one is beat up and I am going to go with a new oil pump.

I thought about dropping and cleaning the pan, remounting it w/o a gasket. draining new oil into the galley and down into the pan and then use the oil pump/distributor drive to run oil through the engine and through a new filter. Maybe do that twice to make sure most of the debris is out before installing the cam and buttoning it up.

Right now Its back in the heated garage drying off, I am going to get into the front of the motor and pan tomorrow after it is dried. We'll see what the pan looks like, I am going to look at the inside of the filter that just came off too. That oil was fairly new and I am hoping to see the filter holding most of the gunk..

@F4Gary, I considered a roller cam, but for this application a roller cam would be similar to putting lip stick on a pig and it would be another $200 that goes into this engine on top of what i already have in it. BTW, the F4 Phantom has and always will be my favorite military aircraft.



Thanks,
Pat




  + on the F4 Phantom



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4/6/16 1:35pm - Reply: 'Re: Worn Cam... replace or too late '
apesa63
Former Member
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Hillsboro, OR - USA

Vette(s):
1975 L48 4sp. Coupe... Rebuilt Motor

Joined: 7/20/2015
Posts: 44
So I finally got the cam, took a couple days. This is a stock type hydraulic with more lift and duration than factory. I am going to replace the timing chain and was considering whether to go with a timing chain setup or a gear drive setup. I'm fine with the gear noise and I know they're noisier.. in a good way than a  timing chain.

Was wondering if anyone had replaced the stock chain with a gear drive and if they liked it..

tia, 
pat




____________________________________
Daytona Yellow '75 350 Muncie 4 spd
'73 454 on the engine stand.


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4/6/16 9:19pm - Reply: 'Re: Worn Cam... replace or too late '
Adams' Apple Lifetime Member
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Duncanville, TX - USA

Vette(s):
#1-1974 L-48 4spd Cp Med Red Metallic/Black deluxe int w/AC/tilt/tele./p/w-p/b/ Am-Fm/map light National/Regional/Chapter NCRS "Top Flight" #2-1985 Bright Red/Carmine Cp.L-98/auto Member: NCRS, NCRS Texas, Corvette Legends of Texas

Joined: 11/8/2003
Posts: 19457
To be honest, gear drives are no good for anything other than making noise to impress someone. The only REAL, quality set-up that actually improves anything is the single idler types that require a special timing cover, and are a pita to do correctly, or the sets that have only the two gears, where the cam gear meshes directly with the crank gear. The floating, dual idler set-ups are not reliable, and usually create timing issues.
Imho, I'd stay with the tried & true Cloyes double roller chain/gear setThumbs Up

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Joel Adams
C3VR Lifetime Member #56    
My Link


(click for Texas-sized view!)
             NCRS

"Money can't buy happiness -- but somehow it's more comforting to cry in a CORVETTE than in a Kia"
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4/8/16 8:59am - Reply: 'Re: Worn Cam... replace or too late '
apesa63
Former Member
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Hillsboro, OR - USA

Vette(s):
1975 L48 4sp. Coupe... Rebuilt Motor

Joined: 7/20/2015
Posts: 44
Adams' Apple said: 
Imho, I'd stay with the tried & true Cloyes double roller chain/gear setThumbs Up

You're right, had to entertain the option tho. I ended up with the Cloyes double roller and a new timing chain cover. I have all the parts and will have it running this weekend. Can't wait. 

New Edelbrock Cam, rebuilt heads with 2.02/1.60 valves, new oil pump and Pan. And while it was laid up and in the air I installed a new Borgeson steering box, new front and rear anti-sway bars and a new rear spring. 

Can't wait till the cam is broken in.....



____________________________________
Daytona Yellow '75 350 Muncie 4 spd
'73 454 on the engine stand.


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4/9/16 3:50pm - Reply: 'Re: Worn Cam... replace or too late '
danascar
Standard Member
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Germansville, PA - USA

Vette(s):
1974 Coupe 358ci 4 speed Black w/Medium Saddle interior w/79 custom leather seats. 1999 Covertible, 6 speed, Atomic orange, Oak interior

Joined: 1/28/2010
Posts: 763
Had a gear drive in my engine for awhile, got tired of people telling me my power steering pumpwas bad.Unhappy I still have it, Pete Jackson.

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Dan T
 

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4/19/16 10:15am - Reply: 'Re: Worn Cam... replace or too late '
apesa63
Former Member
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Hillsboro, OR - USA

Vette(s):
1975 L48 4sp. Coupe... Rebuilt Motor

Joined: 7/20/2015
Posts: 44
So I got the Cam/Lifters and heads installed and the motor is back together. Started on first try. When I pulled the pan I did not remove the starter, I just removed all the bolts for the inspection cover so I could get the pan down. That left the inspection cover hanging while I cleaned the pan and installed the cam, etc.. When I was rolling the motor over while adjusting the valves I could hear what I thought was the flywheel rubbing against that dangling inspection plate. Nothing major since I was manually rolling the motor over and I figured that would be gone once I buttoned up the oil pan and reinstalled the inspection cover bolts. 

But that clanging sound is still there and was not there when I started this project. I am going to pull the starter and inspection plate and have a look, but I wanted to run this by the forum to see if anyone can provide more detail / info.

Tia,
Pat


____________________________________
Daytona Yellow '75 350 Muncie 4 spd
'73 454 on the engine stand.


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4/19/16 4:05pm - Reply: 'Re: Worn Cam... replace or too late '
apesa63
Former Member
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Hillsboro, OR - USA

Vette(s):
1975 L48 4sp. Coupe... Rebuilt Motor

Joined: 7/20/2015
Posts: 44
Found the problem. When I tried to cut some time by leaving the starter in and the inspection plate hanging I bent the inside flange on the inspection plate when I was adjusting the valves. When I bolted the plate back on it allowed the crank flange to hit the bent part of the inspection plate creating that terrible noise. Pulled it apart, cleaned and repaired and painted the inspection plate and I'm done except for the hood. Just ran the cam in at 2k rpm for 20 minutes and then put 150 miles on the new cam at highway speeds. Great to be back on the road. Also the borgeson upgrade is worth every penny spent. @f4gary I have reconsidered the roller cam and would def spend the extra cash for the sake of breakin worries. I used a ton of assembly lube and breakin lube as well as Chevys OES supplement recommended by edelbrock. Fingers crossed. It's done right. Take care and thanks Pat

____________________________________
Daytona Yellow '75 350 Muncie 4 spd
'73 454 on the engine stand.


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4/19/16 7:17pm - Reply: 'Re: Worn Cam..'
skytop
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Joined: 4/17/2016
Posts: 1
apesa63:  I enjoyed reading your account of diagnosing and rebuilding your engine. Glad you are rock'n and roll'in again!  Thanks for sharing with us.
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