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6/12/11 11:17pm - Original Message: '82 CFI Fuel Pump'
kwoody
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Tucson, AZ - USA

Vette(s):
1982 Black/Tan Leather Build Code C09E Bronze TTop CrossFire Fuel Injection L83 85 Fuel Pump Auto Axle 2.72 Firestone Firehawk Indy500

Joined: 7/11/2010
Posts: 415
Hello All!
I've recently ran into the same kind of hesitation and sudden drop in engine power while at cruse speeds that I have seen before.  I replaced the fuel filter in the tank with no change.  I'm thinking about replacing the in-tank fuel pump again.  I replaced it (the in tank fuel pump) about 1 1/2 years ago after moving to Arizona.  It was having the same kind of problem.  I used a stock replacement from a local parts store.  That fixed the problem. 

Somewhere I remember a comment or two about using a 84 or 85 model year AC Delco pump.  I saw that after I had replaced and solved the problem.  Now, with everything pointing to a failing fuel pump, I think I'll go that route.  I seem to remember that the newer model pump puts out a higher pressure and that the 82 CFI system is very sensitive to fuel pressure.  The original (so I seem to remember) was a lower pressure or fuel flow. 

Any thoughts.  I really enjoy working on my baby now that the garage is complete. 

Thanks for the help.
Keith


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6/13/11 7:40am - Reply: '82 CFI Fuel Pump'
crossfire1982
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Cramerton, NC - USA

Vette(s):
black 1982 coupe slate gray interior, 350 crossfire, 1985 fuel pump, Steeroids R&P conversion

Joined: 8/22/2006
Posts: 1094
The 82 and 84 pumps put out about 12 PSI and that pressure is "adequate" for the throttle bodies unless the pump has degraded and dropped lower.  The 85 fuel pump outputs about 45 PSI, much more than the throttle bodies need.  The drivers side throttle body has a built in pressure regulator that was factory set at about 11 PSI and will prevent the excess pressure from getting to the injectors, the overpressure will simply return to the tank via the return line.  If you install the 85 pump I recommend that you rebuild your throttle bodies.  This is really a simple task using a kit readily available for less than $100.  The reason I recommend this is if the original 30 year old diaphrams are in place the added pressure may cause a problem.  If your 82 pump is weak you should notice an immediate difference in the stumbling problem when you change pumps but to reap the full benefits of the 85 pump you will need to modify your drivers side throttle body to make the fuel pressure regulator adjustable.  I modified my pressure regulator and adjusted it to 14 psi and it made a huge difference.  Ive done this mod twice and there was a very noticeable difference on both vettes.  If you decide to make the fuel pressure mod, let me know.  I have some info that will be beneficial to you. You have a PM.Crossfire19822011-06-13 04:52:45

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6/13/11 10:08am - Reply: '82 CFI Fuel Pump'
kwoody
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Tucson, AZ - USA

Vette(s):
1982 Black/Tan Leather Build Code C09E Bronze TTop CrossFire Fuel Injection L83 85 Fuel Pump Auto Axle 2.72 Firestone Firehawk Indy500

Joined: 7/11/2010
Posts: 415
Great information Chip.  Thanks for the detailed PM.  That looks like something I can do.  I also noticed the fuel pressure rig that fits under the air cleaner.  I'll get one of those assy from DCS.  Any thoughts on using AC Delco as opposed to any other brand.  Generally, are there brands to stay away from?

Thanks for the help.
Keith


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6/13/11 11:06am - Reply: '82 CFI Fuel Pump'
crossfire1982
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Cramerton, NC - USA

Vette(s):
black 1982 coupe slate gray interior, 350 crossfire, 1985 fuel pump, Steeroids R&P conversion

Joined: 8/22/2006
Posts: 1094

I much prefer using a Delco pump.  The crossover line pressure gauge from DCS is a well made piece and makes tuning the fuel pressure much easier.  Give me a shout if you have any questions.



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6/13/11 11:42am - Reply: '82 CFI Fuel Pump'
kwoody
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Tucson, AZ - USA

Vette(s):
1982 Black/Tan Leather Build Code C09E Bronze TTop CrossFire Fuel Injection L83 85 Fuel Pump Auto Axle 2.72 Firestone Firehawk Indy500

Joined: 7/11/2010
Posts: 415
Thanks again Chip.  I'll give DCS a call after 9am.  Their web site shows the pressure assy "out of stock".  They may just whip those up as ordered.  I can't see them being huge demand item since 82 are a sub-set of the corvettes out there and the 84-85s are different.  Did you have to adjust the bends in the pipes any when installing?  I know the assy should stay in place and clear the air cleaner.

Thanks,
Keith


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6/13/11 12:53pm - Reply: '82 CFI Fuel Pump'
crossfire1982
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Cramerton, NC - USA

Vette(s):
black 1982 coupe slate gray interior, 350 crossfire, 1985 fuel pump, Steeroids R&P conversion

Joined: 8/22/2006
Posts: 1094
No bending required.  The fittings allow some adjustment of the gauge but the tubing is bent precisely and fits perfectly.  The only problem is removal of the original crossover line, they are very difficult to remove in one piece.  I ended up heating / bending / grinding an open end wrench to hold the fittings on the throttle bodies themselves while I removed the fittings of the original crossover line.

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6/13/11 1:24pm - Reply: '82 CFI Fuel Pump'
kwoody
Former Member
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Tucson, AZ - USA

Vette(s):
1982 Black/Tan Leather Build Code C09E Bronze TTop CrossFire Fuel Injection L83 85 Fuel Pump Auto Axle 2.72 Firestone Firehawk Indy500

Joined: 7/11/2010
Posts: 415
Ok, I get the picture.  I had experience with oil lines going to the generators on the F-15s.  I've talked with Jim at DCS and the pressure assys are two weeks out.  So, I'll start PB Blasting the fittings to free them up a bit.  I have an ok from the wife to get a grinder "When you need to" since she insisted we give away my old one when we moved from Mass.

I'm just now getting all my tools divided into like groups.... wrenchy things... ratachie things and so on....  not really doing the metric/ English separation yet.  We really purged the stuff when we moved - mostly my stuff....

Keith


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6/13/11 4:04pm - Reply: '82 CFI Fuel Pump'
DaveM Lifetime Member
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Flanders, NJ - USA

Vette(s):
1982 Black, ZZ4, Hooker Side Pipes, 3.55 Rear, Rebuilt & upgraded 700R4, All new suspension, brakes, & new Charcoal interior.

Joined: 1/27/2004
Posts: 2530
Hey Keith, even if you just put in a '85 pump without doing anything else you wil  see a difference.  The '85 pump will deliver a higher volume of fuel and you won't get any starvation at higher RPMs.
Doing what Chip says will only help even more.


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6/13/11 9:11pm - Reply: '82 CFI Fuel Pump'
kwoody
Former Member
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Tucson, AZ - USA

Vette(s):
1982 Black/Tan Leather Build Code C09E Bronze TTop CrossFire Fuel Injection L83 85 Fuel Pump Auto Axle 2.72 Firestone Firehawk Indy500

Joined: 7/11/2010
Posts: 415
Thanks Dave.  I found an ACDelco 85 pump in stock at a parts store downtown Tucson.  The counter guy looked up the specs on both the 85 and 82 pump.  The 82 was rated at 15 lbs and the 85 is rated at 50 lbs.

It was a little too hot for me to do anything this afternoon so I'll replace it on Wed early AM and see what happens. These days I don't drive anywhere with out 5 or 6 bottles of water in the car.  You really don't want to get stranded in the desert this time of year with out some H2O.

Thanks for all the help.
Keith


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6/14/11 2:04am - Reply: '82 CFI Fuel Pump'
tb2k82ce Lifetime Member
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Lemon Grove, CA - USA

Vette(s):
1982 C3 Collectors Edition 44000 miles, sat in the sun most of it's life, My wife purchased it for me for fathers day in 2007 from her girl friend that had it for 19 years. It is on the road again. I'm retired but it is now my daily driver.

Joined: 10/17/2007
Posts: 2007
85 pump and a pressure gage works great.  Do you have the special tool to adjust your fuel pressure?  That thing cost a little bit.
 
I was wondering if the milage suffers if you have 14 PSI instead of 11 or 12PSI.  My CE only gets about 11 miles per gallon. I know it depends on how you drive but I do not think I'm that bad.
 
 


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6/14/11 7:15am - Reply: '82 CFI Fuel Pump'
crossfire1982
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Cramerton, NC - USA

Vette(s):
black 1982 coupe slate gray interior, 350 crossfire, 1985 fuel pump, Steeroids R&P conversion

Joined: 8/22/2006
Posts: 1094
There is a special tool which is a "J" shape available from DCS they are well made but they are $$.  I have a buddy who has one of the DCS tools and it looks good laying in the toolbox but its a very rarely used tool.  I took the buba way out and made one from a piece of copper tubing (carefully bent to match the DCS tool) and a $10 flex shaft carburator adjusting tool from pepboys.  Mine isnt nearly as pretty as the DCS model but it works just as well.  I havent checked my mileage on a road trip but around town cruising I get a little better than 17 mpg on my crossfire, the same as before the fuel pump / pressure modification.  There is a ton of info on the fuel pump and fuel pressure modification on the crossfire injection vault at   http://www.crossfire.homeip.net/

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6/14/11 7:19am - Reply: '82 CFI Fuel Pump'
crossfire1982
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Cramerton, NC - USA

Vette(s):
black 1982 coupe slate gray interior, 350 crossfire, 1985 fuel pump, Steeroids R&P conversion

Joined: 8/22/2006
Posts: 1094
In case other 82 owners are interested, here is a detailed post with pics on rebuilding the throttle bodies and removing the block off plate to the fuel pressure regulator. I have experience with only two crossfires that have been modified this way but both results were good.
Since the 85 fuel pump puts out much more pressure it's wise to replace the rubber fuel lines with high pressure fuel injection hose and good quality clamps at the connections.  If you consider adjusting the pressure on the regulator I highly recommend you replace the "O" rings, diaphrams and other goodies in the throttle bodies at the same time, after all, the originals are 30 years old.  I also HIGHLY recommend taking pictures at each step of the process to make sure you will have a reference to put things back.
 
I apologize for the length of this post but it takes this much to explain the process. Im sure I have left something out and if you have questions, send me a PM and Ill clarify if I can.  IF you decide to make the fuel pressure regulator adjustable the info below will be helpful.  The pics will be helpful if you just decide to rebuild the throttle bodies, its not difficult at all.  The pressure adjustment tool in the photos is a $50 bought one belonging to a buddy.  I made mine from a piece of copper tubing and an old carburator adjustment tool with a flex shaft on it.  You may decide to balance your throttle bodies which may help performance as well. It's important for the throttle bodies to operate exactly at the same time and to the same degree. This is not a difficult task but does take a little time.  I have a step by step procedure for this also if you are interested. OK, here goes.

Making the fuel pressure adjustable is not rocket science or really difficult, it just takes a little time and patience to do. You will need to order a throttle body rebuild kit before you start because you will be disassembling parts with gaskets between them. The kit is available from Ecklers as well as other suppliers. Once the gaskets are disturbed, you will need to clean the surfaces and install new gaskets and "O" rings. Pay careful attention to how everything goes together so you will know how to reassemble. Taking pictures as you go is a wise idea. 

First off, you will NOT need to remove the throttle body bases from the intake. You will need to remove the injector "pods" or "towers" from the bases. This can easily be one with the bases on the car. You will need to remove the 5 screws that hold the top of the tower to the tower itself. All of these screws are not the same length, keep track of which screw came from where. Once the 5 screws are out, you may need to tap the top the cover with a screwdriver or small hammer to jar it loose from the tower. After it is loose, remove the top and attached fuel fuel pressure regulator. Removing the injector itself is easy, just use a screwdriver to pry it out, here you see me using ahandle of a pair of pliers as a fulcrum for the lever. Pay PARTICULAR attention to the "O" rings and metal ring. These MUST be installed exactly right when you reassemble. Getting the injector back into its place with the spacer and "O" rings will be a difficult chore. It MAY be possible to leave the injector in place but scraping off the old gasket will be difficult but there are "O" rings and a screen filter on the injector itself that you will probably want to replace. You will next need to remove the the fuel pressure reguator from the lid. This will be done by removing the 4 screws that hold it in place. There is a STRONG spring in the regulator that mut be contained as you unscrew the 4 screws. This can be done either by mechanical clamps or with your hand . The spring is strong but not to the point that you cant hold it. Release all the parts that are inside and day attention to how the parts are arranged.  Be aware that the diaphrams are different for the drivers side and passengers side throttle bodies. When disassembling the pressure regulator DO NOT turn the screw on the pressure adjustment until everything is back together and you have a pressure gauge installed.  If the screw is left at its original position you should have the same pressure 11-12 pounds after reassembly as when you disassembled it. There is a "plug" in the bottom of the regulator that blocks the adjustment of the fuel pressure.  This plug must be removed by using a punch to drive it off, it will not give much resistance. Once the plug is removed, the regulator can be reassembled just as it was before. With the plug removed, you will be able to get to the adjustment stud. You now should be able to see how the tool works. By turning the stud, it moves the washer inside of the regulator and increases or decreases the spring tension inside of the regulator. Once the tower is reassembled onto the base and the injector is reinstalled, the tool is used to reach under the throttle body, engage the stud and adjust the pressure. The pressure you are looking for is 14 - 14.5.
Crossfire19822011-06-14 04:43:53

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6/14/11 8:43pm - Reply: '82 CFI Fuel Pump'
kwoody
Former Member
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Tucson, AZ - USA

Vette(s):
1982 Black/Tan Leather Build Code C09E Bronze TTop CrossFire Fuel Injection L83 85 Fuel Pump Auto Axle 2.72 Firestone Firehawk Indy500

Joined: 7/11/2010
Posts: 415
Thanks again Chip for sharing the information.  I'll do as you recommend and take lots of pictures.  I think I can put up with driving the RV around for a few weeks.  It does have a Dodge V8 350ci in it and curses right along. Well, once it gets going that is. The early AM here is still very nice and cool.  I'll post my progress.

Keith


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Nobody ever waves when I'm driving the Explorer.
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6/15/11 1:11pm - Reply: '82 CFI Fuel Pump'
kwoody
Former Member
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Tucson, AZ - USA

Vette(s):
1982 Black/Tan Leather Build Code C09E Bronze TTop CrossFire Fuel Injection L83 85 Fuel Pump Auto Axle 2.72 Firestone Firehawk Indy500

Joined: 7/11/2010
Posts: 415
Hello all.  The 85 pump install went smoothly. She sure is a lot perkier now and no hesitation.  An extended leak check went fine and now I'm just waiting for rebuild kit and pressure meter assy.  Thanks again for all the help.

Gilbert:  I'm planing to make up an adjustment tool. I don't plan to do any extended driving until I get the TB rebuild kit and the DCS pressure assy.  I'm looking at the water pressure metering articles to also build a meter for setting the balance on the TBs.  Mine are still factory set and the engine really runs smoothly and does not make any disturbing sounds.  Mostly, I get the remark: "She runs quiet!" from passer-bys.  As you know everybody has a vette story they want to tell you.....
Keith
kwoody2011-06-15 10:27:43

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6/15/11 2:29pm - Reply: '82 CFI Fuel Pump'
crossfire1982
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Cramerton, NC - USA

Vette(s):
black 1982 coupe slate gray interior, 350 crossfire, 1985 fuel pump, Steeroids R&P conversion

Joined: 8/22/2006
Posts: 1094
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6/16/11 2:03pm - Reply: '82 CFI Fuel Pump'
tb2k82ce Lifetime Member
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Lemon Grove, CA - USA

Vette(s):
1982 C3 Collectors Edition 44000 miles, sat in the sun most of it's life, My wife purchased it for me for fathers day in 2007 from her girl friend that had it for 19 years. It is on the road again. I'm retired but it is now my daily driver.

Joined: 10/17/2007
Posts: 2007
If you want to borrow my fuel adjustment tool let me know and I will mail it to you.  We are almost neighbors being I'm a bedroom community to San Diego. 
 
Gilbert


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6/16/11 2:15pm - Reply: '82 CFI Fuel Pump'
kwoody
Former Member
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Tucson, AZ - USA

Vette(s):
1982 Black/Tan Leather Build Code C09E Bronze TTop CrossFire Fuel Injection L83 85 Fuel Pump Auto Axle 2.72 Firestone Firehawk Indy500

Joined: 7/11/2010
Posts: 415
Thanks Gilbert.  That would be fantastic.  I was trying to find a good picture with a size reference so I could home brew one. 
I'll PM you with my info.  I'm considering the life membership and getting another C3 for the future. I thought I was gonna sell baby and get a plane but, those thoughts have vanished. 
Keith


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6/20/11 11:01am - Reply: '82 CFI Fuel Pump'
kwoody
Former Member
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Tucson, AZ - USA

Vette(s):
1982 Black/Tan Leather Build Code C09E Bronze TTop CrossFire Fuel Injection L83 85 Fuel Pump Auto Axle 2.72 Firestone Firehawk Indy500

Joined: 7/11/2010
Posts: 415
Hello All.

My TB rebuild kit should arrive tomorrow and I have removed and cleaned the IACs and the air ports where they mount .  I cleaned out a lot of gunk from the air ports.  I also found the HEI ignition coil cracked so, I replaced that and cleaned and deoxied the connectors in the ignition circuit. 

The Monument fire in Southern Arizona is about 80 miles SE of my location.  Evacuations are wide spread in the Seria Vista area.  A new fire has crossed the boarder at Sasabe.  That is SW of my location and may be a factor if it gets out of hand.  I want to get the Baby running again as soon as possible in case we have to get out fast.

Keith


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6/20/11 12:24pm - Reply: '82 CFI Fuel Pump'
chronos51
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Phoenix, AZ - USA

Vette(s):
1982 corvette crossfire production numer C5101985. Color is silver and claret. All original numbers match. slight mods to crossfire for better efficiancy and power balanced and added fuel pressure assembly between throttle bodies,

Joined: 6/12/2011
Posts: 139
The tool for the adjustment is the hardest thing to come across, i keep checking with the dcs site and they are always out of stock on the fuel line and the tool.
I wound up spitting my fuel line and putting a jeggs 15lb fuel pressure guage between the throttle bodies.
the Gm Double D tool I retrieved from a co-worker's friend.
 
Crossfire Injection Forum has a detailed tech artical on how to adjust the fuel pressure from start to finsih
 
 
I would recomend this link to anyone who is looking at adjusting their stock fuel pressure, they have taken good pics and give step by step instructions on how to do it.
 
Marcus


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6/20/11 1:49pm - Reply: '82 CFI Fuel Pump'
kwoody
Former Member
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Tucson, AZ - USA

Vette(s):
1982 Black/Tan Leather Build Code C09E Bronze TTop CrossFire Fuel Injection L83 85 Fuel Pump Auto Axle 2.72 Firestone Firehawk Indy500

Joined: 7/11/2010
Posts: 415
Thanks Marcus,
Again Welcome to C3VR. 

Yeah, I am a member of the Vault and have been for about 6 months.  I don't see a lot of activity there but, the archived articles are great.  Thanks for the info on the tool.  I'll be able to fabricate something along the lines of the DCS tool. 

This is my first dealing with DCS.  Jim said the pressure assys were 2 week out when I talked with him a few days ago.  He has my number and email.  I have to give him the benefit of the doubt.  DCS has had outstanding reviews so, I'll wait the 2 weeks and give him another call. 

With the wild fire situation here in Southern Arizona, I have to keep Baby ready to make a quick escape but, I'm not driving her until I get the rebuild kit in and most likely until I pull the plugs, clean and re-gap them.

Thanks for the input and I hope you stick around.

All the best!

Keith


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Nobody ever waves when I'm driving the Explorer.
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