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2/2/12 10:41pm - Original Message: 'Started by not starting... then a TBI leak and then....'
kwoody
Former Member
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Tucson, AZ - USA

Vette(s):
1982 Black/Tan Leather Build Code C09E Bronze TTop CrossFire Fuel Injection L83 85 Fuel Pump Auto Axle 2.72 Firestone Firehawk Indy500

Joined: 7/11/2010
Posts: 415

This trouble started in the parking lot of the near by International Airport.... and in the Engine Forum.

First Baby started up ok but, when I slipped into reverse she just stopped.  Got her back to the garage via
AAA and noticed a gas smell and she would not crank over.  I was thinking starter...Got pointed in the direction
of a TBI leak into the intake manifold  ( Throttle Body Injector it is a 82 )  and there it was.... a gusher.  While removing the TBI I twisted and broke the fuel feed line to the front TBI.  So, now I'm in the fuel forum....

I've worked with large oil lines on aircraft but, this is the first gas line in a car for me.  I can get stock from the
ACE hardware downtown. I have a flare/bender kit on the way.  I have heard of using sand inside the line
while bending it.  I have also heard of freezing water inside the line and then bending.  Any advice on ether?

I live in the desert so, sand is no problem.  I was thinking heating it up a bit before bending...

Thanks,

Keith

Oh yeah,  I found the connector from the spark module in the distributor going to the HEI coil in the cap had failed and that was the running problem.  Those parts came in and really by the amount of the TBI leak, it was good Baby was not running when the gusher started...


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2/2/12 11:08pm - Reply: 'Re: Started by not starting... then a TBI leak and then....'
Adams' Apple Lifetime Member
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Duncanville, TX - USA

Vette(s):
#1-1974 L-48 4spd Cp Med Red Metallic/Black deluxe int w/AC/tilt/tele./p/w-p/b/ Am-Fm/map light National/Regional/Chapter NCRS "Top Flight" #2-1985 Bright Red/Carmine Cp.L-98/auto Member: NCRS, NCRS Texas, Corvette Legends of Texas

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Don't ya just hate it when that happens? Censored

I've also heard of the sand trick. Never used it meself, as I have tubing a bender. Never heard of freezing it with water in it....don't sound like a good idea to me...that's how things get broke! LOL

I think I would wait until I got the tubing bender, and just use that....


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Joel Adams
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2/3/12 7:00pm - Reply: 'Re: Started by not starting... then a TBI leak and then....'
kwoody
Former Member
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Tucson, AZ - USA

Vette(s):
1982 Black/Tan Leather Build Code C09E Bronze TTop CrossFire Fuel Injection L83 85 Fuel Pump Auto Axle 2.72 Firestone Firehawk Indy500

Joined: 7/11/2010
Posts: 415


Yeah Joel, sometimes I just make more work for myself.   Well, this is why I built the garage.  I decided to
do it in two sections.  Cut the original out.  Shape both ends (bottom one goes to a hose with a clamp)
use a coupler in between in a straight section.  I won't need to get the clamp out and everything will be
easy to put together.

A neighbor suggested to heat the sand first and then pour it in the tube.  That will make sure it is nice
and dry.  Sounds like a plan.  I picked up 2 lines complete with flares and connectors on both ends. I'll
just cut one end for the hose connection. This might end up working ok.

Still having fun in the desert.


Keith


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K Woody
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2/4/12 6:49am - Reply: 'Re: Started by not starting... then a TBI leak and then....'
crossfire1982
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Cramerton, NC - USA

Vette(s):
black 1982 coupe slate gray interior, 350 crossfire, 1985 fuel pump, Steeroids R&P conversion

Joined: 8/22/2006
Posts: 1094
Keith,  Which throttle body is leaking?  Can you tell where it is leaking from? Did you replace the diaphragms a while back when you replaced the fuel pump? Ive seen the hard tubes to the throttle bodies broken before, usually from twisting, the connectors just don't want to let go of the tubes when they start to unscrew.  The crossover line is a real pain to get off without twisting. 

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2/4/12 5:17pm - Reply: 'Re: Started by not starting... then a TBI leak and then....'
kwoody
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Tucson, AZ - USA

Vette(s):
1982 Black/Tan Leather Build Code C09E Bronze TTop CrossFire Fuel Injection L83 85 Fuel Pump Auto Axle 2.72 Firestone Firehawk Indy500

Joined: 7/11/2010
Posts: 415
Hi Chip.

The front TBI and or the line that I broke was leaking.   I was planning to put the DCS meterd cross pipe
on the engine.  So, I loosened all of the lines.  When that did not happen, I senched them all up again
and drove away into the sunset.

When I rebuilt the TBIs  I replaced all of the gaskets including the diaphragm on both TBIs.  No leaks.
I did not increase the pressure by much. 9.5 to 14.5 lbs is what I'm running.  The front TBI is fed from the
fuel tank feed and then the path goes via the crossing pipe to the rear TBI then back to the return
return line.  I have the crossing pipe out now and cleaned it up.  It is ok.  The engine has been running
very smoothly and I'm sorta fortunate that the HEI connector failed when it did. 

I have a complete rebuild Kit so, I'll be replacing everything in that TBI since I will have it apart.

UPDATE3PM

Well, I didn't need the second section.  The $5 bending tool and warm sand did a pretty good job. 
I've run out of time for today but, a promising start.  The bottom of the hard line ends just about
in the same spot the original did.    The original was easy to remove after I got the saws all out!

Thanks 
Keith


|UPDATED|2/4/2012 3:17:10 PM (AZT)|/UPDATED|


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2/9/12 8:29pm - Reply: 'Re: Started by not starting... then a TBI leak and then....'
kwoody
Former Member
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Tucson, AZ - USA

Vette(s):
1982 Black/Tan Leather Build Code C09E Bronze TTop CrossFire Fuel Injection L83 85 Fuel Pump Auto Axle 2.72 Firestone Firehawk Indy500

Joined: 7/11/2010
Posts: 415
Hello.

Again, I am amazed at the help you guys have provided me.  Thanks to all that sent PMs and offered advice.   The starter turned out to be just fine.  I did find a much larger leak in the TBI than I had originally suspected.   The diaphragm was split just along the interior metal slug.  I had one so that was an easy fix. 

The hot sand and the inexpensive bending tool worked just fine.  I had a bit of trouble getting the new line to seat properly but, it eventually did and passed the leak test a 30 mile test drive.  

The spark module and connector, condenser and pigtail was easy to replace.  I just pulled the distributor cap, rotor and removed the old one and cleaned the mounting area.  I used the silicon heat sink compound and it went back together with no problems. 

I did squirt a little engine oil down the spark plug holes into the cylinders.  Maybe, a bit too much...
She did smoke a bit when she first started. The smoking went away quickly and after several start and stops to tweak the leaking line, I got her off the jacks and out on the road. 

The fuel leaking into the intake manifold must have washed the oil from the piston oil rings...  For a moment there I didn't think she would crank... But, she did and eventually started! 

Thanks again.  Still having fun in the desert.

Keith



|UPDATED|2/9/2012 6:29:46 PM (AZT)|/UPDATED|


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Nobody ever waves when I'm driving the Explorer.
K Woody
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2/10/12 8:02am - Reply: 'Re: Started by not starting... then a TBI leak and then....'
DaveM Lifetime Member
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Flanders, NJ - USA

Vette(s):
1982 Black, ZZ4, Hooker Side Pipes, 3.55 Rear, Rebuilt & upgraded 700R4, All new suspension, brakes, & new Charcoal interior.

Joined: 1/27/2004
Posts: 2530
That's good to hear Kieth. I don't eveny you guys that stick with the CrossFire. I gave up on mine, got tired of flat beds. When all is good it is a nice running car. You really need to learn to tune it yourself, 'cause there is VERY few shops out there that know these systems. Good luck,
Dave


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Lifetime Member #116
Dave's '82


   
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2/12/12 11:15am - Reply: 'Re: Started by not starting... then a TBI leak and then....'
kwoody
Former Member
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Tucson, AZ - USA

Vette(s):
1982 Black/Tan Leather Build Code C09E Bronze TTop CrossFire Fuel Injection L83 85 Fuel Pump Auto Axle 2.72 Firestone Firehawk Indy500

Joined: 7/11/2010
Posts: 415
Thanks Dave.     I've tried to learn as much about it as I can and built the garage to work on her.

I tried using an old diaphragm in the place of the one that ruptured.  That did not hold.  I got a second trip home via AAA.  I have new ones on order. 

I'm thinking about using a different pressure regulator set up.  Blank off panels and gaskets are available to remove the TBI mounted regulator and I'm not quite sure what the front diaphragm does.  It does get the full output of the fuel pump when the switch is turned on and before start.  So, I'm thinking along those lines for the future. I'd have to find a regulator and mount it somewhere along the fuel line path.  At first I'm thinking I'll blank off that first diaphragm (front TBI) and see what happens.  The role of the diaphragm may provide some pressure relief or stabilization as the injector shuts off. 

Oh well,  thanks again for the help.


Keith




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Nobody ever waves when I'm driving the Explorer.
K Woody
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2/12/12 9:39pm - Reply: 'Re: Started by not starting... then a TBI leak and then....'
DaveM Lifetime Member
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Flanders, NJ - USA

Vette(s):
1982 Black, ZZ4, Hooker Side Pipes, 3.55 Rear, Rebuilt & upgraded 700R4, All new suspension, brakes, & new Charcoal interior.

Joined: 1/27/2004
Posts: 2530

The pressure regulator is easy, I had to go to one when I put the new engine in, since it has a carb. I use an '85 fuel pumpwhich is about 50 psi and I need 6-7 at the carb.

Make sure you get one with a return line.
I think if you rebuild the stock one it should be fine. But that's up to you'
Dave


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Lifetime Member #116
Dave's '82


   
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2/16/12 10:45pm - Reply: 'Re: Started by not starting... then a TBI leak and then....'
kwoody
Former Member
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Tucson, AZ - USA

Vette(s):
1982 Black/Tan Leather Build Code C09E Bronze TTop CrossFire Fuel Injection L83 85 Fuel Pump Auto Axle 2.72 Firestone Firehawk Indy500

Joined: 7/11/2010
Posts: 415
Thanks Dave,

I think that will be the long run solution.  I put the new diaphragms and another set of gaskets
in today.  This set is from a new supplier I found on ebay.  I've had two orders with him and the stuff
looks good and he gets the orders out fast.  

His ebay handle: 

dctrumpet ( 1540Feedback score is 1000 to 4,999)

He has a lot of other stuff for CrossFire too. Communication with him was good.  There was a problem with my last order and he took care of it in a matter or minutes. 

This set looks a bit heavier than the first set I got through AutoZone. It looked like it had been packaged back in the day.  Hopefully, these will last longer. They certainly look like new manufacture.

I also backed off the tension on the fuel pressure spring on the rear TBI.  I took it on a short 15 mile test drive and no hesitation, no leaks and lots of acceleration that I'm use to.  Felt good! 

Chip, I took a look at my air door and actuator and it is frozen shut.  Next things - Next!

All the Best from Tucson.

Keith



|UPDATED|2/16/2012 8:45:27 PM (AZT)|/UPDATED|


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Nobody ever waves when I'm driving the Explorer.
K Woody
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2/17/12 6:11am - Reply: 'Re: Started by not starting... then a TBI leak and then....'
crossfire1982
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Cramerton, NC - USA

Vette(s):
black 1982 coupe slate gray interior, 350 crossfire, 1985 fuel pump, Steeroids R&P conversion

Joined: 8/22/2006
Posts: 1094
Glad she is back on the road Keith.  If your air door still has the big round solenoid attached, it would be a little difficult to push it in manually.  You can test it by using a jumper wire on the diagnostic port under the ash tray, just like you check for trouble codes. As soon as you jumper the diagnostgic port to check for codes, the door should pop open and stay open until you turn the key off.  Otherwise, it only opens on wide open throttle.

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2/17/12 7:52am - Reply: 'Re: Started by not starting... then a TBI leak and then....'
DaveM Lifetime Member
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Flanders, NJ - USA

Vette(s):
1982 Black, ZZ4, Hooker Side Pipes, 3.55 Rear, Rebuilt & upgraded 700R4, All new suspension, brakes, & new Charcoal interior.

Joined: 1/27/2004
Posts: 2530
If you can't fix that door you can remove it so it's always open, no harm.
Dave


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Lifetime Member #116
Dave's '82


   
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2/17/12 7:54pm - Reply: 'Re: Started by not starting... then a TBI leak and then....'
kwoody
Former Member
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Tucson, AZ - USA

Vette(s):
1982 Black/Tan Leather Build Code C09E Bronze TTop CrossFire Fuel Injection L83 85 Fuel Pump Auto Axle 2.72 Firestone Firehawk Indy500

Joined: 7/11/2010
Posts: 415
Thanks guys,

I'll try that really soon.  We just got back from a big tour of downtown Tucson including a jaunt
down the freeway.  I found a total of four speed bleeder valves for the rear calipers and made my
every once-in-a-while tour of the music stores in town.  A little networking never hurts in the
music business. 

No troubles to report.  I'm happy to say that AAA was not needed!  I do think we will renew our
membership which expires at the end of this month. I clearly need to get her cleaned up from
sitting in the garage for a couple of months. 

Thanks again for all the help.

Still having fun in the desert.

Keith




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Nobody ever waves when I'm driving the Explorer.
K Woody
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