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1/12/16 4:40pm - Original Message: 'Good News, Good News, BAD News'
Vman73
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Gig Harbor, WA - USA

Vette(s):
1973 L82 4 Speed Coupe - Very original, well documented driver/survivor. 2016 Bend Regional NCRS Top Flight.

Joined: 10/2/2014
Posts: 362
Good News - I joined the NW Chapter of the NCRS in June of last year. Very interested in getting my car judged for Flight Judging since it is a little beyond the Bow Tie phase. The issue I had been having was our group is mainly C1, C2 guys that are very used to looking at a nicely restored car, not a crusty 'ol C3 like mine.

I attended several events to show my interest and my willingness to participate in the group, not just get my car judged and move on. I have been also helping a good friend who has a Top Flight '65 and has been a NW member longer than I have. He lobbied with the group and arranged to have a "Judging School" on my car, we would focus on Condition.

NFRC Flight Judging is based on five different areas - Chassis, Exterior, Interior, Mechanical and Operations. The first four of the categories are broken into Originality and Condition. Operation is basically does it work properly or not.

Over the past year plus I have had a pretty good handle on the Originality and Operations of my car, the biggest "what if" was Condition. How would my very original rusty, crusty parts be viewed by the judges. That became the purpose of our gathering last Saturday.

As stated before, most of our group is C1, C2 guys with some pretty high buck cars so when it was announced that we were going to have a Judging School on my '73 I was pretty worried about who and how many would show up. My buddy and I set the car up in his hangar and we were expecting a medium turnout perhaps 10 to 12 people. We were astonished that 35 to 40 members attended !! Don't know if it was the nice weather and a bit of cabin fever but we had many more than expected and they were very enthusiastic about looking at my car.

Good News - after the group spent about four hours on the car they returned the score sheets. This event was considered a school so nothing official would be awarded. I was just looking for reasonable feedback on how the group would score my car on Condition. I had done some preliminary backwards math and based on my estimation of Originality and Operations, I would need to get approx. 66% of the Condition points to achieve a 3rd Flight, the lowest award possible. After tallying up the numbers yesterday, I actually achieved 78% of the condition points so I've got a bit of breathing room for a different group of judges or perhaps I could stretch that to a Second Flight !!

So now its time for the BAD NEWS - while moving cars around for a few weeks and getting ready for this event, my car developed a bit of a knock on the lower end. Started out very small and goes away after warm up, but it's getting louder !! Crap - out comes the motor !! I have been desperately trying not to do the pull and rebuild and it has been running great for approx. 1500 miles over 18 months, but something is letting go on the bottom end. Thought I was in great shape for the Bend, OR. Regional and the C3VR Gathering this summer, now I've got some work to do !!  


____________________________________
John Sigmund
valkman57@sbcglobal.net
NCRS Member 61302
NW NCRS Chapter Member



Duct tape is the new Black !!
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1/12/16 7:45pm - Reply: 'Re: Good News, Good News, BAD News'
johnu
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Eagan, MN - USA

Vette(s):
1981 Corvette Two-Tone Claret color, 4 spd, C7 Vert

Joined: 5/23/2007
Posts: 507
Murphy's Law!
Sorry to read this.


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      Only 23 years together
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1/12/16 11:20pm - Reply: 'Re: Good News, Good News, BAD News'
Tooch1
Former Member
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Vette(s):
1973 Convertible, L48, 4 Speed, PS, Numbers Matching, Mille Miglia Red, Dark Red Interior NCRS Top Flight Award Chapter/ June 2016

Joined: 11/29/2015
Posts: 47
Sorry to hear about the engine issue John. Like I always say, it just never ends with these older classics. It was nice to see that there was a larger than expected turnout for the judging school and that your car did better than you expected. I'm sure you gathered some valuable information about the judging process. Will you be doing the work on the engine yourself, or will you be sending it out? Good luck, and feel free to email me with updates. Tooch

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Tooch1 Pittsburgh Tri State Chapter NCRS Laurel Valley Corvette Club
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1/13/16 12:01am - Reply: 'Re: Good News, Good News, BAD News'
2tone82vette Lifetime Member
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Newton, NJ - USA

Vette(s):
1978 Indy Pace Car. All original. A true survivor. 2nd owner Only 300 miles.

Joined: 1/26/2010
Posts: 113
Best of luck!

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1/13/16 12:42pm - Reply: 'Re: Good News, Good News, BAD News'
Adams' Apple Lifetime Member
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Duncanville, TX - USA

Vette(s):
#1-1974 L-48 4spd Cp Med Red Metallic/Black deluxe int w/AC/tilt/tele./p/w-p/b/ Am-Fm/map light National/Regional/Chapter NCRS "Top Flight" #2-1985 Bright Red/Carmine Cp.L-98/auto Member: NCRS, NCRS Texas, Corvette Legends of Texas

Joined: 11/8/2003
Posts: 19457
Condition takes a back seat to originality. First time I had my '74 Judged, I hadn't done ANY detailing or cleaning under the hood, or under the car. Squeaked it thru with a Top Flight.  Of course, different Judges on different days will give a different outcome, but congrats on the test run, and results.

Are you SURE it's an engine noise you're hearing? Does it change, or go away when you press the clutch pedal down? 
Does it change if the engine is under a load?
Does it change as the rpms go higher?
Do you feel any vibrations associated with the noise?


____________________________________
Joel Adams
C3VR Lifetime Member #56    
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             NCRS

"Money can't buy happiness -- but somehow it's more comforting to cry in a CORVETTE than in a Kia"
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1/17/16 7:01pm - Reply: 'Re: Good News, Good News, BAD News'
Vman73
Standard Member
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Gig Harbor, WA - USA

Vette(s):
1973 L82 4 Speed Coupe - Very original, well documented driver/survivor. 2016 Bend Regional NCRS Top Flight.

Joined: 10/2/2014
Posts: 362
Adams' Apple said: Condition takes a back seat to originality. First time I had my '74 Judged, I hadn't done ANY detailing or cleaning under the hood, or under the car. Squeaked it thru with a Top Flight.  Of course, different Judges on different days will give a different outcome, but congrats on the test run, and results.

Are you SURE it's an engine noise you're hearing? Does it change, or go away when you press the clutch pedal down? 
Does it change if the engine is under a load?
Does it change as the rpms go higher?
Do you feel any vibrations associated with the noise?

Hey Joel, I wish it wasn't, but I'm pretty sure it's a rod bearing. Started out a low growl then became a knock that got stronger each time I started it.

No change clutch in or out, neutral or in gear. 
No major change under load but I haven't put much load on it.
Noise itself stays the same at higher RPM's, just faster.
Vibration - not too bad yet, but I'm not chancing it.

Tear out starts tomorrow !! 



|UPDATED|1/17/2016 5:01:14 PM (AZT)|/UPDATED|


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John Sigmund
valkman57@sbcglobal.net
NCRS Member 61302
NW NCRS Chapter Member



Duct tape is the new Black !!
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1/17/16 8:00pm - Reply: 'Re: Good News, Good News, BAD News'
F4Gary Gold Member
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Grapevine, TX - USA

Vette(s):
1972 LT-1 convertible with factory air.

Joined: 8/26/2006
Posts: 869
Could it be a crack in an exhaust manifold.  It warms up, seals, and goes away.


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1/18/16 1:59pm - Reply: 'Re: Good News, Good News, BAD News'
Vman73
Standard Member
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Gig Harbor, WA - USA

Vette(s):
1973 L82 4 Speed Coupe - Very original, well documented driver/survivor. 2016 Bend Regional NCRS Top Flight.

Joined: 10/2/2014
Posts: 362
F4Gary said: Could it be a crack in an exhaust manifold.  It warms up, seals, and goes away.



Hey Gary, I'll double check the exhaust manifolds as I am taking it apart but it definitely has that "knock" about it down low. That's the same one that you feel in the pit of your stomach when you hear it in your engine.

____________________________________
John Sigmund
valkman57@sbcglobal.net
NCRS Member 61302
NW NCRS Chapter Member



Duct tape is the new Black !!
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2/13/16 7:00pm - Reply: 'Re: Good News, Good News, BAD News'
Vman73
Standard Member
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Gig Harbor, WA - USA

Vette(s):
1973 L82 4 Speed Coupe - Very original, well documented driver/survivor. 2016 Bend Regional NCRS Top Flight.

Joined: 10/2/2014
Posts: 362
So my engine and trans has been out to the experts for about three weeks.................Engine had a bad wrist pin on one cylinder (probable source of my knock) and the upper end of the rear main bearing was toast. Builder says it will be an easy rebuild once he finds a set of new forged pistons and an L82 cam. Overall he said it was in good shape but it was only going to get worse........................My trans guy had about the same thing to say about the Muncie, all there and working well but definitely getting more than a bit tired. Bearings were original but worn, 1st and second syncros were paper thin and the shifter shaft seals were toast. Everything is supposed to be ready to put back in late next week or early the following week...................In order to keep me and my wallet busy in the mean time, I decided to pull the entire front suspension. New bushings, bearings and a well needed clean up................... Everything is sorted, cataloged and pictured, but I'll sure feel a whole lot better when it starts going back together. I'd hate to be the only one that shows up to the 2016 Gathering in a Jeep !!!

____________________________________
John Sigmund
valkman57@sbcglobal.net
NCRS Member 61302
NW NCRS Chapter Member



Duct tape is the new Black !!
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