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9/30/12 10:07am - Original Message: 'Borgeson Install'
Sarge81 Lifetime Member
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WEST SENECA, NY - USA

Vette(s):
1981 Blue Ice Met. w/pearl ghost flames TKO500 5speed. LS1 Swap 3.45 Dana 44.

Joined: 12/3/2001
Posts: 2376
I just completed my install of the Borgeson power steering box in my '81.

Was is worth it??? Hell yeah!

I ordered it on ebay for $670. free shipping. This was the cheapest I could find one of these kits.

Since I have access to a lift it made it much easier to install of course. Everything is pretty much straight forward except for a couple "pitfalls" I ran into. The instructions are very vague for semi mechanically inclined I'd say.
Here is a few details on my install.

First thing I did once it was up in the air was disconnect the lines at the pump and let it drain out.

Then disconnected the fluid lines from the steer cylinder and removed the cylinder.

Next was to separate the control valve from the pitman arm, then remove the pitman arm from the steering box.

To make it easier to un-thread the control valve from the drag link while leaving the fluid lines still connected to it, I separated the drivers side outer tie rod end to allow the drag link to drop down enough to spin the valve off. Once the control valve was off I spun the new drag link to pitman arm adapter that take the place of the control valve. 
(Don't tighten the clamp until you have the steering box and pitman arm installed. This way you can "clock" it straight and not cockeyed when you get to this step. Then tighten the pinch clamp down.)

Then I took the pinch bolts off of the rag joint and spray lubed the steering column shaft.

Then I unbolted the steering box from the frame and being my car is a manual transmission the steering box won't drop out from the bottom. So I had to remove the alternator on mine to allow enough room to slide it out.

The rag joint then was removed from the steering shaft. Spray the shaft up real good with lube so when you start to collapse the column it goes in easier. I actually got my steering shaft to slide in and out fairly easy.

They recommend to remove the steering column, but I was able to loosely bolt in the new steering box and slide the steering shaft into the new supplied rag joint. ******Check to see if your new steering box is "centered" first. I checked mine before I connected it together and the box was at full right lock. *******

The new power steering fluid lines are very beefy. So they will be hard to bend/flex around to connect the fittings. Be patient and take your time. You don't want to cross thread a brand new part. They supply inverted flaired brass fittings to eliminate the original o-ring fittings. Be very careful tapping these brass flairs in. They are soft. Use a brass drift to gently tap them in. Start all your fittings by hand. Once you start tightening the fittings down it will finish seating the brass flares. These are much better than the OEM o-ring setup. If anyone wants pics of how I routed the lines let me know. I'll email you pics.

Then I re installed the alternator, filled the power steering pump up. Do not use transmission fluid. Power steering fluid only. With the front wheels off the ground, start the engine and slowly turn from left to right. If you hear the pump "growl" shut it off immediately and refill fluid. Repeat bleeding procedure until there is no more noise and your fluid level is just above full cold.

I went around the block for a preliminary test. I couldn't believe my steering wheel was almost perfectly straight. But it will be sent off for a proper 4 wheel alignment. It is recommended to add 3-4 degrees of chamber for help the steering wheel return to center while driving.

Pitfall #1 : clutch z-bar hit the new Borgeson steering box. I had to remove the clutch return spring, heat the arm and give it a slight bend to ensure it cleared the box. Once cooled I gave it a quick shot of paint and reinstalled the clutch return spring. Worked like a charm. Automatic transmission cars or manual transmission cars with hydraulic clutch conversion shouldn't have this problem.

Pitfall #2 : had to remove alternator to remove steering box. An issue with manual transmission cars. Automatics and hydraulics clutch cars shouldn't have this issue.

Pitfall #3 : there are no illustration on how to rout your new power steering lines. It took me a couple times to figure out a routing that was to my standards.

The car steers so easy now and the ratio is pretty quick. No more vague feeling. No more darty steering. Turning radius is the same as original. I'm very happy with their product.

The only problem I'm having is the steering column has a little squeak in it when I turn right just before hitting the lock. I think it may be a lubrication issue inside the column. No big deal. Well fix that later. lol.

Sarge


|UPDATED|9/30/2012 7:07:36 AM (AZT)|/UPDATED|


____________________________________

GEN III 5.7L "LS6" Engine swap
TKO500 5 spd.
3.54 Dana 44
'69 "N11" Sidepipes
Borgeson Steering Box
Born 8/1981
Sequence #3975




Click here to see more pics of my Vette on CarDomain.


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9/29/12 10:42pm - Reply: 'Re: Borgeson Install'
daveo76
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Vancouver, WA - USA

Vette(s):
1976 Silver/Firethorn. L48, 4spd. Original 2 bolt, vortec heads, 9.4:1 CR, Speed Pro Cam: 224/224@0.050, 112 LSA, Eagle Steel Crank.

Joined: 8/25/2005
Posts: 830
Great write-up!  I'll have to dig this up some day in the future when I do this to mine.  Glad to hear that it went fairly smoothly minus a few pitfalls.  I'd love to be able to get rid of the cylinder and control valve in the original system.  

So what is the ratio compared to stock?  


____________________________________

 

1976 Silver/Firethorn.  L48, 4spd.  Original 2 bolt, vortec heads, 9.4:1 CR, Speed Pro Cam: 224/224@0.050, 112 LSA, Eagle Steel Crank.
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9/30/12 12:18am - Reply: 'Re: Borgeson Install'
F4Gary Gold Member
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Grapevine, TX - USA

Vette(s):
1972 LT-1 convertible with factory air.

Joined: 8/26/2006
Posts: 862
So the steering column slides in and out?  I thought you had to collapse the energy absorbing column and once in, it wouldn't come back out.  I'll be.  I also thought they engineered this enough so as to not rub on an existing clutch part.  Hmm. 

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9/30/12 9:40am - Reply: 'Re: Borgeson Install'
The Rook Lifetime Member
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Pittsburgh, PA - USA

Vette(s):
1979 L-82, 3 spd auto, car was originally Lt. Beige currently painted Sportsman Red, Doeskin leather interior, 103,000 miles......

Joined: 12/4/2002
Posts: 600
Sounds great Sarge...
One of my pitfalls was having to remove the drivers side header in order to get the pitman arm off and the box out. Probably wouldn't be an issue with manifolds.
 
I hope you are as satisfied/impressed with the borgeson unit as I am.
 
It is amazing how differently it makes the car handle.


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LIFETIME MEMBER #183
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9/30/12 10:11am - Reply: 'Re: Borgeson Install'
Sarge81 Lifetime Member
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WEST SENECA, NY - USA

Vette(s):
1981 Blue Ice Met. w/pearl ghost flames TKO500 5speed. LS1 Swap 3.45 Dana 44.

Joined: 12/3/2001
Posts: 2376
daveo76 said:

So what is the ratio compared to stock?  
Thanks "daveo76"

I believe the stock ratio is around 16:1 = about 4 turns lock to lock.
The Borgeson steering box ratio is 12.7:1= 3 turns lock to lock


____________________________________

GEN III 5.7L "LS6" Engine swap
TKO500 5 spd.
3.54 Dana 44
'69 "N11" Sidepipes
Borgeson Steering Box
Born 8/1981
Sequence #3975




Click here to see more pics of my Vette on CarDomain.


Lifetime Member #26
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9/30/12 10:27am - Reply: 'Re: Borgeson Install'
Sarge81 Lifetime Member
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WEST SENECA, NY - USA

Vette(s):
1981 Blue Ice Met. w/pearl ghost flames TKO500 5speed. LS1 Swap 3.45 Dana 44.

Joined: 12/3/2001
Posts: 2376
F4Gary said: So the steering column slides in and out?  I thought you had to collapse the energy absorbing column and once in, it wouldn't come back out.  I'll be.  I also thought they engineered this enough so as to not rub on an existing clutch part.  Hmm. 

Yeah at first it was tight tapping it in. I cleaned up the shaft a bit then sprayed it up with some penetrating oil. Then I tapped it in a bit. Then I took a pair of large vise grips and clamped on to the shaft giving me a point I could lever my pry bar against allowing me to slide the shaft outward. After a few times of doing this the shaft slid in and out very nicely. I actually had the shaft slide up all the way into the column. I about fainted at that point. But I was able to stick a large square file into the end and latch onto it to yank it back out.
***Use a rubber or plastic mallet*** The shaft is very soft and will get dinged up easily. Don't ask me how I know.

I read through some old posts on other forums about the clutch lever hitting the box. It happened on some other cars but not all. I have torches, so I just adjusted the flame to about a pin point and heated across the lever between the return spring hole and were the lever is welded to the bar. I removed the clutch return springs since the heat would have ruined it in seconds. It was a 5 minute fix.



____________________________________

GEN III 5.7L "LS6" Engine swap
TKO500 5 spd.
3.54 Dana 44
'69 "N11" Sidepipes
Borgeson Steering Box
Born 8/1981
Sequence #3975




Click here to see more pics of my Vette on CarDomain.


Lifetime Member #26
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9/30/12 6:19pm - Reply: 'Re: Borgeson Install'
Redwingvette Lifetime Member
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Waterford, MI - USA

Vette(s):
1973 Red coupe

Joined: 9/13/2002
Posts: 1674
Glad you are happy with the Borgeson box. I am as well. I did not have the luck of moving the steering shaft in as you did. I had to pull the column and smack it pretty good. Once it moved I was able to move it in/out fairly easy.

____________________________________
Brian - NCM Lifetime Member
          
73 coupe L48, Flat-top pistons, Performer RPM Heads, Crane Cam and roller rockers, Holley 650 vac sec. Performer intake,
3.55 gear BTO 200-4R trans,
Leather seats, F-body seatbelts, Pioneer CD player
Magnaflow Exhuast System
Dewitt radiator and dual electric fans
Borgeson Steering box
Click here for Brian's Home Page 



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9/30/12 9:11pm - Reply: 'Re: Borgeson Install'
Sarge81 Lifetime Member
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WEST SENECA, NY - USA

Vette(s):
1981 Blue Ice Met. w/pearl ghost flames TKO500 5speed. LS1 Swap 3.45 Dana 44.

Joined: 12/3/2001
Posts: 2376
I checked out your Car Domain Brian. Very good pics and info.

So how long ago did you put the Borgeson box in you vette? Any quirks or issues?


____________________________________

GEN III 5.7L "LS6" Engine swap
TKO500 5 spd.
3.54 Dana 44
'69 "N11" Sidepipes
Borgeson Steering Box
Born 8/1981
Sequence #3975




Click here to see more pics of my Vette on CarDomain.


Lifetime Member #26
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10/1/12 8:19pm - Reply: 'Re: Borgeson Install'
Redwingvette Lifetime Member
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Waterford, MI - USA

Vette(s):
1973 Red coupe

Joined: 9/13/2002
Posts: 1674
I put it in last fall after I returned from Labor Day at NCM. I have had no issues since the install and would do it again if I ever bought another C3. 

____________________________________
Brian - NCM Lifetime Member
          
73 coupe L48, Flat-top pistons, Performer RPM Heads, Crane Cam and roller rockers, Holley 650 vac sec. Performer intake,
3.55 gear BTO 200-4R trans,
Leather seats, F-body seatbelts, Pioneer CD player
Magnaflow Exhuast System
Dewitt radiator and dual electric fans
Borgeson Steering box
Click here for Brian's Home Page 



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10/1/12 9:23pm - Reply: 'Re: Borgeson Install'
Sarge81 Lifetime Member
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WEST SENECA, NY - USA

Vette(s):
1981 Blue Ice Met. w/pearl ghost flames TKO500 5speed. LS1 Swap 3.45 Dana 44.

Joined: 12/3/2001
Posts: 2376
Thanks Brian.

My car is down at the shop for it alignment tomorrow.
I can't wait to give this system a workout this weekend at our Northeast "Fall Fest."


____________________________________

GEN III 5.7L "LS6" Engine swap
TKO500 5 spd.
3.54 Dana 44
'69 "N11" Sidepipes
Borgeson Steering Box
Born 8/1981
Sequence #3975




Click here to see more pics of my Vette on CarDomain.


Lifetime Member #26
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10/24/12 7:35pm - Reply: 'Re: Borgeson Install'
Sarge81 Lifetime Member
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WEST SENECA, NY - USA

Vette(s):
1981 Blue Ice Met. w/pearl ghost flames TKO500 5speed. LS1 Swap 3.45 Dana 44.

Joined: 12/3/2001
Posts: 2376
Well I have to say I'm impressed with the Borgeson steering box. I noticed right from the get go I don't have to make those "sub conscience" corrections to the steering wheel while cruising.

1: The only issue I'm having is the turn signal does not cancel unless I really turn the wheel farther than I normally used to.

Now I did have the shop disassemble the column to tighten up the bolts on the tilt knuckle and look things over before they did the alignment.

Is there something that was overlooked or put together wrong as where the turn signal won't cancel itself as it did prior to disassembly?

2: The other issue I'm having is the steering column developed a squeak in it after the conversion. It still has a squeak after they disassembled and lubed it.

Any ideas on fixing these issues?

(10 days later...Bueller...Bueller)



|UPDATED|10/24/2012 4:35:57 PM (AZT)|/UPDATED|


____________________________________

GEN III 5.7L "LS6" Engine swap
TKO500 5 spd.
3.54 Dana 44
'69 "N11" Sidepipes
Borgeson Steering Box
Born 8/1981
Sequence #3975




Click here to see more pics of my Vette on CarDomain.


Lifetime Member #26
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10/24/12 10:39pm - Reply: 'Re: Borgeson Install'
Adams' Apple Lifetime Member
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Duncanville, TX - USA

Vette(s):
#1-1974 L-48 4spd Cp Med Red Metallic/Black deluxe int w/AC/tilt/tele./p/w-p/b/ Am-Fm/map light National/Regional/Chapter NCRS "Top Flight" #2-1985 Bright Red/Carmine Cp.L-98/auto Member: NCRS, NCRS Texas, Corvette Legends of Texas

Joined: 11/8/2003
Posts: 19449
Turn siggys not cancelling could be that they just tightened the 3 screws holding the signal switch in too tight.

A squeaking after the install, and still after disassembling the column...hmmmm....can you tell where in the column the noise is coming from? Top, bottom? Continuous squeak, or only at certain places in the travel? Make any difference if the column is tilted up or down all the way, or pulled all the way in or out?
If I remember right, the only mod you did to the column(for the install) was to collapse the lower shaft up into the upper shaft, to make the column shorter, right? That shouldn't in itself make a noise start.....




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Joel Adams
C3VR Lifetime Member #56    
My Link


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             NCRS

"Money can't buy happiness -- but somehow it's more comforting to cry in a CORVETTE than in a Kia"
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10/25/12 11:43am - Reply: 'Re: Borgeson Install'
Sarge81 Lifetime Member
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WEST SENECA, NY - USA

Vette(s):
1981 Blue Ice Met. w/pearl ghost flames TKO500 5speed. LS1 Swap 3.45 Dana 44.

Joined: 12/3/2001
Posts: 2376
Adams' Apple said: Turn siggys not cancelling could be that they just tightened the 3 screws holding the signal switch in too tight.

A squeaking after the install, and still after disassembling the column...hmmmm....can you tell where in the column the noise is coming from? Top, bottom? Continuous squeak, or only at certain places in the travel? Make any difference if the column is tilted up or down all the way, or pulled all the way in or out?
If I remember right, the only mod you did to the column(for the install) was to collapse the lower shaft up into the upper shaft, to make the column shorter, right? That shouldn't in itself make a noise start.....




Hello Joel,
 Yes the only mod to the column is to collapse it a few inches on itself.  After the install I noticed the squeak. It was still there after the shop torn it down and rebuilt it.
The squeak main happens when a turn to the right. It seems to get louder when I'm nearing the lock of the right turn. 

I will try today to see if it still squeaks with the column in different position and see if it is at the bottom, middle or top when my helper gets home from work.

The turn signal will cancel only after I turn the wheel further than normal. Do you think this could be due to the faster steer ratio? It went from 4 turns to 3 turns lock to lock.

Thanks for helping me out.


____________________________________

GEN III 5.7L "LS6" Engine swap
TKO500 5 spd.
3.54 Dana 44
'69 "N11" Sidepipes
Borgeson Steering Box
Born 8/1981
Sequence #3975




Click here to see more pics of my Vette on CarDomain.


Lifetime Member #26
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10/25/12 12:43pm - Reply: 'Re: Borgeson Install'
Adams' Apple Lifetime Member
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Duncanville, TX - USA

Vette(s):
#1-1974 L-48 4spd Cp Med Red Metallic/Black deluxe int w/AC/tilt/tele./p/w-p/b/ Am-Fm/map light National/Regional/Chapter NCRS "Top Flight" #2-1985 Bright Red/Carmine Cp.L-98/auto Member: NCRS, NCRS Texas, Corvette Legends of Texas

Joined: 11/8/2003
Posts: 19449
The turn sig cancel cam don't know what ratio you have, nor should it matter. The cam is on the steering wheel end, and no matter how many turns lock/lock you have, the actual  steering wheel travel needed to cancel should be the same. Now it's possible that you are just not having to turn the steering wheel as far as before to turn the front wheels the same amount, so that could certainly explain it. So in that case, yeah, it's prolly due to the different ratio gear box.(dam....that train took a LONG time to get to the station, dint it?)LOL

On the noise, you need to figure out WHERE in the column it's coming from. Since the steering shaft runs thru the center of the mastjacket, it shouldn't be a problem with the shaft rubbing on the firewall pass-thru or anything. I've seen that before, and it only required unbolting the lower column and shifting it around a bit. On yours tho....Idano....unless some of the nylon/plastic "weld" from between the two shafts broke loose, and is rubbing on something, but that should all be on the outside of the cabin...not inside. Weird....
Ya might try loosening the upper column bolts just a little, and see if the noise goes away...maybe the column is in some sort of a slight bind, and just needs to be relieved....
Just throwing idears out there....Big smile
 



____________________________________
Joel Adams
C3VR Lifetime Member #56    
My Link


(click for Texas-sized view!)
             NCRS

"Money can't buy happiness -- but somehow it's more comforting to cry in a CORVETTE than in a Kia"
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10/25/12 1:38pm - Reply: 'Re: Borgeson Install'
DaveM Lifetime Member
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Flanders, NJ - USA

Vette(s):
1982 Black, ZZ4, Hooker Side Pipes, 3.55 Rear, Rebuilt & upgraded 700R4, All new suspension, brakes, & new Charcoal interior.

Joined: 1/27/2004
Posts: 2530
I know what the problem is, it's that loose nut behind the wheel! Wink
Dave


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Lifetime Member #116
Dave's '82


   
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10/26/12 11:35am - Reply: 'Re: Borgeson Install'
Sarge81 Lifetime Member
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WEST SENECA, NY - USA

Vette(s):
1981 Blue Ice Met. w/pearl ghost flames TKO500 5speed. LS1 Swap 3.45 Dana 44.

Joined: 12/3/2001
Posts: 2376
I think Dave is on to something there. LOL

Thanks for the feedback Joel. Now yesterday it hardly even squeaked when I was driving it. Weird. This is when I don't like old cars.
Well unfortunately I had to make a last minute decision and put the car away yesterday for the winter. The weather is starting to turn. Lots of rain for the whole week, cold temps and maybe some snow. Unhappy
So I will have to chase this problem down at a later date.

I was thinking of rotating the steering shaft 180 degrees and clock the steering wheel back and see if that makes a difference on the turn signal issue.
Do you think that may help the issue?

Thanks again! Thumbs Up


____________________________________

GEN III 5.7L "LS6" Engine swap
TKO500 5 spd.
3.54 Dana 44
'69 "N11" Sidepipes
Borgeson Steering Box
Born 8/1981
Sequence #3975




Click here to see more pics of my Vette on CarDomain.


Lifetime Member #26
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