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3/5/05 7:28pm - Original Message: 'I hate timing lights'
cthulhu Lifetime Member
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Hot Springs, AR - USA

Vette(s):
69 Conv #'s Match 427, TKO-600, 3.36HD-Posi, T/T, PS, PB, PW, SP, Lthr, Comp Mag 270 & Pro Rlr Rockers, Edel Air-Gap RPM, BG SD 750 MS, MSD 6AL+Tach Dist+ Blaster SS+Wires, Hly Bl Fuel Pump, K&N, Jet-Hot Hkr Side-Pipes,Steeroids, Al Rad, Spal Fans

Joined: 4/24/2004
Posts: 3194

okay..  I got my new intake today for my truck..  replaced it..  (took a little under two hours, would have been quicker but i spent 15 minutes looking for a pipe thread plug)

cranked it..  the extender tube for the oil sender broke at some point in the process..  replaced it..  cranked it up..  couldnt find my trusty vaccum gauge to retime it

grabbed my timing light just to get it close..  set it to 15 deg advance, then drove over to my friends house to pick up the vac gauge i loaned him.  ran like a gutless wonder the whole way..  and got very hot. 

hooked up the vac gauge..  got 12 lbs...  this thing has a stock cam so i knew this wasnt right...  timed it to peak..  19 lbs..  and now it runs like a scalded dog.

put the light on it just for fun..  it says im running 30 deg initial time..

POS needs to be recalibrated and its only about two years old.  I hate timing lights.  This is why I NEVER use them to time a car if I am able to use a vac gauge.

even if your vac gauge shows the wrong figure..  doesnt matter as long as you can find a peak..

 

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3/5/05 8:02pm - Reply: 'I hate timing lights'
cthulhu Lifetime Member
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Hot Springs, AR - USA

Vette(s):
69 Conv #'s Match 427, TKO-600, 3.36HD-Posi, T/T, PS, PB, PW, SP, Lthr, Comp Mag 270 & Pro Rlr Rockers, Edel Air-Gap RPM, BG SD 750 MS, MSD 6AL+Tach Dist+ Blaster SS+Wires, Hly Bl Fuel Pump, K&N, Jet-Hot Hkr Side-Pipes,Steeroids, Al Rad, Spal Fans

Joined: 4/24/2004
Posts: 3194

btw..  just went back down to retune again..  decided to recheck idle mix with new intake..

got the vac up to 19.5 from about 18.75 at idle..  so it made a difference.. 



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3/5/05 8:31pm - Reply: 'I hate timing lights'
Lynne73
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Easton, PA - USA

Vette(s):
1973 Coupe 350 Auto.T-Tops L48,65450 miles.

Joined: 11/6/2003
Posts: 232

 Ben, when were kids we use to set our timing by ear to the highest RPM.When you use a vacuum gauge do you hook it direct on the intake or a port on the carb?. Your talking vacuum at idle.I'm gonna try it and compare it to a timing light,and see which way runs better. 

  Dave

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3/5/05 9:40pm - Reply: 'I hate timing lights'
cthulhu Lifetime Member
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Hot Springs, AR - USA

Vette(s):
69 Conv #'s Match 427, TKO-600, 3.36HD-Posi, T/T, PS, PB, PW, SP, Lthr, Comp Mag 270 & Pro Rlr Rockers, Edel Air-Gap RPM, BG SD 750 MS, MSD 6AL+Tach Dist+ Blaster SS+Wires, Hly Bl Fuel Pump, K&N, Jet-Hot Hkr Side-Pipes,Steeroids, Al Rad, Spal Fans

Joined: 4/24/2004
Posts: 3194

yeah i used to time by ear also..  just that I usually got it too high..

i use direct manifold vacuum..  and if im feeling espeically anal retentive that day ill unhook and plug all other vacuum accessories.

i always remove vac advance line and plug it.  then turn timing to peak vacuum..  it will turn quite bit without change at the peak..  i turn it back down until it drops again.. then back up just enough to hit peak again..

this works very well for me.

if you do this and find that you get a little detonation under load..  (i did this evening) then replace your distributor advance springs.  i did this.. no more detonation..  i dont think the springs had ever been replaced in my truck..  they were very weak. unless youve replaced them recently i would try this before turning timing down a little.

the higher the manifold vacuum.. the "hungrier" the engine is..



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3/6/05 11:00am - Reply: 'I hate timing lights'
Redwingvette Lifetime Member
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Waterford, MI - USA

Vette(s):
1973 Red coupe

Joined: 9/13/2002
Posts: 1674

Ben, What did you use on the botl threads? I have used Permatex #2 in the past but the last time I put the intake on I used the paste that ARP recommends and most of them are leaking now. I plan to go back to Permatex.

  



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Brian - NCM Lifetime Member
          
73 coupe L48, Flat-top pistons, Performer RPM Heads, Crane Cam and roller rockers, Holley 650 vac sec. Performer intake,
3.55 gear BTO 200-4R trans,
Leather seats, F-body seatbelts, Pioneer CD player
Magnaflow Exhuast System
Dewitt radiator and dual electric fans
Borgeson Steering box
Click here for Brian's Home Page 



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3/6/05 3:00pm - Reply: 'I hate timing lights'
cthulhu Lifetime Member
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Hot Springs, AR - USA

Vette(s):
69 Conv #'s Match 427, TKO-600, 3.36HD-Posi, T/T, PS, PB, PW, SP, Lthr, Comp Mag 270 & Pro Rlr Rockers, Edel Air-Gap RPM, BG SD 750 MS, MSD 6AL+Tach Dist+ Blaster SS+Wires, Hly Bl Fuel Pump, K&N, Jet-Hot Hkr Side-Pipes,Steeroids, Al Rad, Spal Fans

Joined: 4/24/2004
Posts: 3194
[QUOTE=Redwingvette]

Ben, What did you use on the botl threads? I have used Permatex #2 in the past but the last time I put the intake on I used the paste that ARP recommends and most of them are leaking now. I plan to go back to Permatex.

[/QUOTE]

do you mean the pipe threaded plugs for unused manifold ports ? i used high temp plumbers thread tape



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3/6/05 4:18pm - Reply: 'I hate timing lights'
Redwingvette Lifetime Member
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Waterford, MI - USA

Vette(s):
1973 Red coupe

Joined: 9/13/2002
Posts: 1674
No Imean the intake bolts that screw into the heads. The threads ar open to the inside of the motor and oil usually finds it way up the bolts and puddles on the top of the intake if the threads are not sealed with some type of sealent.

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Brian - NCM Lifetime Member
          
73 coupe L48, Flat-top pistons, Performer RPM Heads, Crane Cam and roller rockers, Holley 650 vac sec. Performer intake,
3.55 gear BTO 200-4R trans,
Leather seats, F-body seatbelts, Pioneer CD player
Magnaflow Exhuast System
Dewitt radiator and dual electric fans
Borgeson Steering box
Click here for Brian's Home Page 



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3/6/05 5:03pm - Reply: 'I hate timing lights'
cthulhu Lifetime Member
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Hot Springs, AR - USA

Vette(s):
69 Conv #'s Match 427, TKO-600, 3.36HD-Posi, T/T, PS, PB, PW, SP, Lthr, Comp Mag 270 & Pro Rlr Rockers, Edel Air-Gap RPM, BG SD 750 MS, MSD 6AL+Tach Dist+ Blaster SS+Wires, Hly Bl Fuel Pump, K&N, Jet-Hot Hkr Side-Pipes,Steeroids, Al Rad, Spal Fans

Joined: 4/24/2004
Posts: 3194
oh..  just plain old silicone

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3/6/05 5:32pm - Reply: 'I hate timing lights'
Redwingvette Lifetime Member
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Waterford, MI - USA

Vette(s):
1973 Red coupe

Joined: 9/13/2002
Posts: 1674
Thanks. I might try that.

____________________________________
Brian - NCM Lifetime Member
          
73 coupe L48, Flat-top pistons, Performer RPM Heads, Crane Cam and roller rockers, Holley 650 vac sec. Performer intake,
3.55 gear BTO 200-4R trans,
Leather seats, F-body seatbelts, Pioneer CD player
Magnaflow Exhuast System
Dewitt radiator and dual electric fans
Borgeson Steering box
Click here for Brian's Home Page 



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3/6/05 11:35pm - Reply: 'I hate timing lights'
kstyer Lifetime Member
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CUYAHOGA FALLS, OH - USA

Vette(s):
1975 C3 Red, T-Tops, Black Interior. All I need is time and money! Getting there!

Joined: 12/2/2003
Posts: 6410
That's what I use.

____________________________________
On the "Tail of the Dragon"
(some day, no strike that, October 2008 it turned red, still in progress!)

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3/15/05 9:36pm - Reply: 'I hate timing lights'
Tumarr
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Batavia, IL - USA

Vette(s):
496 big block, Dragvette 6 link, 12 bolt IRS conversion, Going for fastest Vette IRS E/T

Joined: 3/27/2003
Posts: 622
Well today I got my vette out from storage and thought I might try the vaccum timing method. I bought a vacuum gauge from the zone and plugged it in to the carb and blocked all the other hoses. At 800 rpm it was reading 14 so I moved the distributor until I got a peak of 18 lbs. I locked it down and went for a test drive. Wow! Is all I can say! The Vette feels like I gained 50 hp. I have a hard time not squeeling the tires at lights now! The dyno shop didn't even get it to feel this good. Thanks for the tip Ben!

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3/15/05 11:33pm - Reply: 'I hate timing lights'
cthulhu Lifetime Member
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Hot Springs, AR - USA

Vette(s):
69 Conv #'s Match 427, TKO-600, 3.36HD-Posi, T/T, PS, PB, PW, SP, Lthr, Comp Mag 270 & Pro Rlr Rockers, Edel Air-Gap RPM, BG SD 750 MS, MSD 6AL+Tach Dist+ Blaster SS+Wires, Hly Bl Fuel Pump, K&N, Jet-Hot Hkr Side-Pipes,Steeroids, Al Rad, Spal Fans

Joined: 4/24/2004
Posts: 3194

you're welcome tom.. 

my grandfather taught me that method..  he was "old school"

for curiousity what does your light say..



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3/16/05 2:18am - Reply: 'I hate timing lights'
Tumarr
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Batavia, IL - USA

Vette(s):
496 big block, Dragvette 6 link, 12 bolt IRS conversion, Going for fastest Vette IRS E/T

Joined: 3/27/2003
Posts: 622
Heh I didnt even use a light to look to see where its at. but I'll put the light on it tomorrow if I can dig it out of my box.

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5/11/05 6:02pm - Reply: 'I hate timing lights'
YellowLT1
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Louisville, KY - USA

Vette(s):
1971 LT1 Convertible PS PB 43K miles

Joined: 11/11/2003
Posts: 97

cthulhu

Hooked up the vac guage to the line running between the carb and the distributor.  Turned distributor to peak vacume (went from 10 to 17).   Car idled higher so I turned it back down to 800 rpm with idle screw.  Car did not run well when I accelerated - rough.  What did I do wrong?  I read your comment about replacing distributor springs.  Do I even have those in a transistorized ignition (71 LT1)?

Thanks for any suggestions

Rgds Neil

 

 

 

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5/11/05 6:54pm - Reply: 'I hate timing lights'
kstyer Lifetime Member
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CUYAHOGA FALLS, OH - USA

Vette(s):
1975 C3 Red, T-Tops, Black Interior. All I need is time and money! Getting there!

Joined: 12/2/2003
Posts: 6410

You don't want the vacuum line from to the distributor.  You want a manifold vacuum.

And yes, the car does have the springs.  You will find them under the distributor rotor.



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On the "Tail of the Dragon"
(some day, no strike that, October 2008 it turned red, still in progress!)

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5/11/05 8:04pm - Reply: 'I hate timing lights'
YellowLT1
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Louisville, KY - USA

Vette(s):
1971 LT1 Convertible PS PB 43K miles

Joined: 11/11/2003
Posts: 97

Thanks Ken

Now for the question I'm sure you knew was coming.  Where do I find "manifold vacume".  Sorry for being such a DA but I have never done anything with vacume and don't know much about it. Thought it might be an easier way than using a timing light.  Just bought the guage yesterday.  Can I get distributor advance springs from Autozone etc?

Thanks again
Neil

 

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5/11/05 8:45pm - Reply: 'I hate timing lights'
kstyer Lifetime Member
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CUYAHOGA FALLS, OH - USA

Vette(s):
1975 C3 Red, T-Tops, Black Interior. All I need is time and money! Getting there!

Joined: 12/2/2003
Posts: 6410

Any vacuum souce connected directly to the intake manifold.

Examples:  Vacuum line to the transmission.  To the brake booster if you have power brakes.  PCV valve.  If you have a Q-Jet, the top passenger side corner of the carb where the line connects to go to  any air filter connector.  Any line connected directly to the intake, and not the carb.

AutoZone does not have the advance springs.  NAPA might.  Summit, Jegs etc. will.  At one time these were common, but it getting more limited due to drop in demand for the cars that use them, and are still being driven.



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On the "Tail of the Dragon"
(some day, no strike that, October 2008 it turned red, still in progress!)

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5/11/05 10:11pm - Reply: 'I hate timing lights'
YellowLT1
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Louisville, KY - USA

Vette(s):
1971 LT1 Convertible PS PB 43K miles

Joined: 11/11/2003
Posts: 97

Thanks Ken

I'll try the power brake booster vacume line tommorow. 

Rgds Neil

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5/12/05 11:49am - Reply: 'I hate timing lights'
cthulhu Lifetime Member
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Hot Springs, AR - USA

Vette(s):
69 Conv #'s Match 427, TKO-600, 3.36HD-Posi, T/T, PS, PB, PW, SP, Lthr, Comp Mag 270 & Pro Rlr Rockers, Edel Air-Gap RPM, BG SD 750 MS, MSD 6AL+Tach Dist+ Blaster SS+Wires, Hly Bl Fuel Pump, K&N, Jet-Hot Hkr Side-Pipes,Steeroids, Al Rad, Spal Fans

Joined: 4/24/2004
Posts: 3194
[QUOTE=YellowLT1]

cthulhu

Hooked up the vac guage to the line running between the carb and the distributor.  Turned distributor to peak vacume (went from 10 to 17).   Car idled higher so I turned it back down to 800 rpm with idle screw.  Car did not run well when I accelerated - rough.  What did I do wrong?  I read your comment about replacing distributor springs.  Do I even have those in a transistorized ignition (71 LT1)?

Thanks for any suggestions

Rgds Neil

[/QUOTE]

did you recheck for peak AFTER you turned the idle back down..  you have to have manifold vacuum peaked at IDLE speed..

it sounds like you peaked it..  then dropped idle..  and didnt re-peak



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5/12/05 3:08pm - Reply: 'I hate timing lights'
YellowLT1
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Louisville, KY - USA

Vette(s):
1971 LT1 Convertible PS PB 43K miles

Joined: 11/11/2003
Posts: 97

cthulhu

OK I peaked vacume (turned distributor counterclockwise) then reset idle then repeaked.  Still runs rough after about 2000 rpm.  Found a vacume advance spring kit at a local speed shop and will try new springs later today as I am pretty sure mine are original.   If that does'nt work for me I can always set it back like it was (distributor about an inch clockwise from where it is now).  I will let you know how it works.

Neil

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