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9/6/09 7:27am - Original Message: 'Cam Shaft ID help'
sulm68
Former Member
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Jacksonville, FL - USA

Vette(s):
1968 convertable 327 300hp All numbers matching, rally red with black interior. A/C, power windows, power brakes. Tremic 5speed

Joined: 8/28/2007
Posts: 44
Hi Guys,

I just pull the cam shaft out of the engine and it looks to be in good shape and not original.  My history on this car only goes by about 8 years so the cam was put in prior to that.  Can anyone help me ID the cam.
  
I 'm trying to see if I could benefit from a Cam swap while the motor is apart.  The cam has CCS2 stamped in the top and MP159 stamped in the bottom of the end.
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9/6/09 8:57am - Reply: 'Cam Shaft ID help'
nosal1 Gold Member
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Dunedin, FL - USA

Vette(s):
1980 Corvette Torch Red with Gold metallic 370HP/350 CU.IN.Turbo 350 w/shift kit.Originally CA.Car with 305 CU.IN.

Joined: 3/21/2006
Posts: 141

Good Morning sulm68

           Regarding your camshaft P/N CCS2,which is made by Melling and has this data related to it's lift etc.
          Cam Spec's are as follows:
                 duration 194/203
                Cam lift @.006  .260/.271
                Gross Valve Lift .390/.410
                Centerline is       112 degrees
                rocker ratio         1.5
       This cam was used in the '68- '72 327 and 350 c.i., 300 hp Vette,Camaro,Chevelle etc. and produced great low end torque..
          I build performance engines and have access to most all cam etc. parts.
          I hope this information will be of help for you..
          Have a great day
            Sal C    member nosal1


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9/6/09 9:32am - Reply: 'Cam Shaft ID help'
sulm68
Former Member
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Jacksonville, FL - USA

Vette(s):
1968 convertable 327 300hp All numbers matching, rally red with black interior. A/C, power windows, power brakes. Tremic 5speed

Joined: 8/28/2007
Posts: 44
Thanks for the quick and informative reply.  Should I consider another cam or leave it alone.  The engine runs pretty good now and I have it apart only because I'm dealing with some leaks.

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9/6/09 11:06am - Reply: 'Cam Shaft ID help'
nosal1 Gold Member
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Dunedin, FL - USA

Vette(s):
1980 Corvette Torch Red with Gold metallic 370HP/350 CU.IN.Turbo 350 w/shift kit.Originally CA.Car with 305 CU.IN.

Joined: 3/21/2006
Posts: 141
Good Morning again,
           I can answer two ways with two questions and that is, are you happy with your Vette's performance and Idle, or would like a bit more horses and torque???
           There is a more performance oriented cam for your Vette and that is the 350 hp 350 c.i. cam normally used in the 1969 Vette and still has the 112 centerline which exhibits a good idle yet produce more torque and horsepower.
           Melling,Clevite,and assorted aftermarket cam manufactures have available,however Melling or Clevite cams are great.
          Melling's # is C-400P  this is what they used in the '69 Vette both 327 and 350 engines and has gross lift of .447/.447.
         Also Melling P/N   C-410-P  gross lift is .450/.460 which was a later development cam for the '73-80 LT 1 engine,also a sneaking fast cam.
          Clevite #'s for the same cams are #229-1713(C-400-P) and 229-1990 (C-410-P)
            These will produce the horsepower and torque you would like without changing torque converter if you have an auto trans.
            The only change will be,depending on your carb,will be you will have to carry a higher idle then your present curb idle instead of the normal for your present cam you will have to use 900 rpm if you have an auto trans instead of the stock setting..No big deal I have an bigger cam and only idle at 1000 rpm with a stock converter,which I should have changed to a stall at the time,albeit I did not and still no problems.......
               I hope this has been some help and I did not confuse the issue.
              Have a great day and good luck with you restoration..
        Sal C    nosal1
 
      PS:  If you replace the cam you must replace lifters, and if you use the cam you have, make sure you get the same lifters in the same hole they came from, or you will have to get new lifters and season them like you would a new cam/lifter setup (24-26 minutes @ 2200-2400 rpm)..............
               Sal C


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9/6/09 12:37pm - Reply: 'Cam Shaft ID help'
sulm68
Former Member
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Jacksonville, FL - USA

Vette(s):
1968 convertable 327 300hp All numbers matching, rally red with black interior. A/C, power windows, power brakes. Tremic 5speed

Joined: 8/28/2007
Posts: 44
Thanks for the reply. It was a big help. What do you think about roller tip rockers?

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9/6/09 2:46pm - Reply: 'Cam Shaft ID help'
aceinthehole Lifetime Member
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Valley Springs, CA - USA

Vette(s):
1978,Metalic Money Green W/Gold emblems,TH350 w/gear splitter,black & grey interior.1978,two tone,Metalic Rootbeer & gold ,Doeskin interior,auto. trans. 1981, Silver w/mirrored T-Tops,4 spd, charcoal interior.

Joined: 11/20/2005
Posts: 3601
I'm not an expert on this and I have gotten advice from Nosal1 on the subject before. Roller rockers are great and will free up a few more horses (less friction and heat on the valve train) I'm a fan, but not without issues. If you have large hi-perf valve springs, some rockers will not clear them. You'll want to decide whether to go with self aligning rockers or regular style and add pushrod guides (and consequently hardened push rods) and hopefully the additional thickness of the guides won't change the geometry of the roller on the valve enough to warrant pushrod length recalibration. The safe and sane way to go would be a set of Comp's roller tip rockers. If you stick with the stock type lock nut and not the poly lock 2 pc. style, I believe they may still fit under the stock valve covers, other wise you have to get tall covers. aceinthehole2009-09-06 11:49:39

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Jimmy B.
Just can't wait to get on the road again.

 
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9/6/09 7:08pm - Reply: 'Cam Shaft ID help'
nosal1 Gold Member
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Dunedin, FL - USA

Vette(s):
1980 Corvette Torch Red with Gold metallic 370HP/350 CU.IN.Turbo 350 w/shift kit.Originally CA.Car with 305 CU.IN.

Joined: 3/21/2006
Posts: 141

sulm68,

           Aceinthehole is quite right on his summations as to some of the drawbacks of the roller rockers,albeit they are the greatest thing since bubble gum,and I have changed many things to use them,however in your case it will not be necessary.If you have the valve covers off and can read the casting numbers on the heads, and they are the original heads then you will have casting # 461 or 462 (last three digits),and if not, if you tell me what casting # they are, I can tell you what you have.
         With the original heads and valve springs that came stock in the heads you can use any of the cam # I had sent you.
          As far as roller tip rockers,you can get the "Stamped Steel" roller lifters (1.5 ratio)which I have in stock for an engine I'm building for a guy who wants to use his stock valve covers, along with the expensive spread, like recommended by aceinthehole (which I have in stock for future builds) along with Cranes roller,Scorpion,and a host of others that the price starts really increases..
            Another trick I use is buy thicker valve cover gaskets from Fel Pro ..They make a thicker cork gasket than the stock gasket.The number escapes me at this time,however then you can use aluminum roller rockers with the poly lock nuts and allen head lockers..
             Like I said send me the casting numbers for the heads and we can go from there..
          Take care and good luck,
                 Sal C   nosal1 


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9/6/09 8:58pm - Reply: 'Cam Shaft ID help'
aceinthehole Lifetime Member
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Valley Springs, CA - USA

Vette(s):
1978,Metalic Money Green W/Gold emblems,TH350 w/gear splitter,black & grey interior.1978,two tone,Metalic Rootbeer & gold ,Doeskin interior,auto. trans. 1981, Silver w/mirrored T-Tops,4 spd, charcoal interior.

Joined: 11/20/2005
Posts: 3601
You da man Sal Thumbs Up . It's great to know we have people around us with your expertise.

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Jimmy B.
Just can't wait to get on the road again.

 
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9/8/09 7:58am - Reply: 'Cam Shaft ID help'
nosal1 Gold Member
Gold Member
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Dunedin, FL - USA

Vette(s):
1980 Corvette Torch Red with Gold metallic 370HP/350 CU.IN.Turbo 350 w/shift kit.Originally CA.Car with 305 CU.IN.

Joined: 3/21/2006
Posts: 141

Jimmy

           Thank  you for the kind words..I hope all is well with you and better..
           Take care of you and "keep on keep'en on" my friend..
         Sal C        nosal1


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9/8/09 1:36pm - Reply: 'Cam Shaft ID help'
sulm68
Former Member
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Jacksonville, FL - USA

Vette(s):
1968 convertable 327 300hp All numbers matching, rally red with black interior. A/C, power windows, power brakes. Tremic 5speed

Joined: 8/28/2007
Posts: 44
Sal and others,

My heads are part no 3917291 which is not what you thought.  Or maybe it was, in anycase does that change the cam recommendations or anything else.


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9/8/09 5:28pm - Reply: 'Cam Shaft ID help'
nosal1 Gold Member
Gold Member
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Dunedin, FL - USA

Vette(s):
1980 Corvette Torch Red with Gold metallic 370HP/350 CU.IN.Turbo 350 w/shift kit.Originally CA.Car with 305 CU.IN.

Joined: 3/21/2006
Posts: 141
3917291....67-68...302/327/350..Camel hump,no accessory holes,64cc chamber

Good Afternoon Sulm68,
       The aforementioned heads (461/462)are the brothers to the 291's. You have great flow characteristics as needed to produced the horses and torque and a step better than the 461/462,which I still have in stock just for a nostalgic build, because of their flow stats. You have a little better set of the 291 series because of the casting date code which, in the event you have not decoded, were cast on Jan,22,1967 and were used on early 302/327 engines and early Camaro 350's not many of these old boy's around. They are as rare and sought after as the 186 that used predominately on Vettes and Camaro Z 28 engines..Please note the intake runners,how nice and rectangular and defined they are which makes them flow excellent....The data above is for your heads.
          Sorry I get a bit long winded....To the main question of these heads for what you want to do, and the answer is a very positive yes.      
          Better than the 461/462 ..
          Someone must have done a valve job or at least changed springs and removed the rotators on the exhaust valves which would indicate they changed the springs to VS 739R springs used also on Z28 and Corvette for performance engines. I can not tell by the photo,however if you look through the spring you should see a flat spiral spring.
             Spring diameter should be 1.2456..
             All information tells me you have the "makin's to keep you shakin' in your Vette
          I hope this is a help and I have been some assistance and feel free to ask any question I may be of help...
           Take care and good luck....
       Sal C           nosal1


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9/8/09 6:41pm - Reply: 'Cam Shaft ID help'
sulm68
Former Member
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Jacksonville, FL - USA

Vette(s):
1968 convertable 327 300hp All numbers matching, rally red with black interior. A/C, power windows, power brakes. Tremic 5speed

Joined: 8/28/2007
Posts: 44
Sal,

I can't thank you enough. Tongue You obviously are extremely knowledgeable and are what make C3 REGISTRY such a great website.  Thanks you too, Adam.

Scott Ulm
sulm68


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9/8/09 6:58pm - Reply: 'Cam Shaft ID help'
nosal1 Gold Member
Gold Member
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Dunedin, FL - USA

Vette(s):
1980 Corvette Torch Red with Gold metallic 370HP/350 CU.IN.Turbo 350 w/shift kit.Originally CA.Car with 305 CU.IN.

Joined: 3/21/2006
Posts: 141
Scott,
     You are very welcome and thank you for your kind comments.
     I just noticed that you must have a manual trans(I noticed the clutch ball bracket) and can run at a lower curb idle 650-750 rpm with the higher lift cam.
       I wish you luck and again if there are any questions please let me know..
             Sal C    nosal1


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9/9/09 5:23pm - Reply: 'Cam Shaft ID help'
sulm68
Former Member
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Jacksonville, FL - USA

Vette(s):
1968 convertable 327 300hp All numbers matching, rally red with black interior. A/C, power windows, power brakes. Tremic 5speed

Joined: 8/28/2007
Posts: 44
I'm planning on going with with the 229-1990 cam and comp cam roller tipped rockers.  The springs do have some type of inner spring so I'm assuming they are all right.  We will probably vacuum test them the valves to confirm their seal.   I hope all this turns out all right.  I'm a little nervous.

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9/9/09 7:03pm - Reply: 'Cam Shaft ID help'
nosal1 Gold Member
Gold Member
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Dunedin, FL - USA

Vette(s):
1980 Corvette Torch Red with Gold metallic 370HP/350 CU.IN.Turbo 350 w/shift kit.Originally CA.Car with 305 CU.IN.

Joined: 3/21/2006
Posts: 141

sulm68  Scott,

             Good choice on the cam and roller rockers.. You will be OK on the springs.
             I assume you are going to get new lifters as well. You should replace timing chain and cam sprocket unless they are new,which is unlikely..
              In any event you should not have any problems with the cam rocker combination.
              As I mentioned before,if you have any questions please let me know.
             Take care
                 Sal C     nosal1


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