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5/23/14 10:31pm - Original Message: 'Need Help Identifying Interior Items'
Jasond56
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Kenosha, WI - USA

Vette(s):
1973 Corvette Stingray Coupe VIN 1Z37J3S418986 350 L-48 Automatic T-Tops St. Louis Assembly, 18,986th car built in 1973, Paint = 976 Mille Miglia Red, Interior = 425 Dark Red Vinyl (Ox Blood)

Joined: 5/7/2014
Posts: 154
Hi All!

The other day, I decided to get a little gutsy and began disassembling some of my interior to see what was going on behind panels.  I'm having issues with my gauges not working (Tach., Water, Oil, Clock and Cigarette Lighter...another ball of wax) and wanted to see if I could find something obvious.  

When I removed the passenger-side map holder panel, I saw a few items I'm not familiar with. See pics below.  
One is a cluster of clipped wires (circled) and a silver apparatus (with the arrow pointing to it). 

Another says "Flasher".    Can someone help identify please?  Could those clipped wires be affecting my gauges?

(So sorry for the HUGE pics.  I have no idea why they will not re-size Wacko )

Thanks in advance!


PIC 1

(modified super-sized pics to links-aapple)



|UPDATED|5/23/2014 7:31:20 PM (AZT)|/UPDATED|


____________________________________
"You know, we always called each other goodfellas. Like you'd say to somebody: You're gonna like this guy, he's all right. He's a goodfella. He's one of us. You understand?"




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5/23/14 9:52pm - Reply: 'Re: Need Help Identifying Interior Items'
Jasond56
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Kenosha, WI - USA

Vette(s):
1973 Corvette Stingray Coupe VIN 1Z37J3S418986 350 L-48 Automatic T-Tops St. Louis Assembly, 18,986th car built in 1973, Paint = 976 Mille Miglia Red, Interior = 425 Dark Red Vinyl (Ox Blood)

Joined: 5/7/2014
Posts: 154
BTW - I did replace all of the interior fuses that I COULD FIND...all the fuses in the fuse panel right above the gad pedal, and the fuse behind the removable foot panel with the rear heat/AC control knob on it.  Still no dice with the non-working gauges.




____________________________________
"You know, we always called each other goodfellas. Like you'd say to somebody: You're gonna like this guy, he's all right. He's a goodfella. He's one of us. You understand?"




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5/23/14 10:33pm - Reply: 'Re: Need Help Identifying Interior Items'
Adams' Apple Lifetime Member
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Duncanville, TX - USA

Vette(s):
#1-1974 L-48 4spd Cp Med Red Metallic/Black deluxe int w/AC/tilt/tele./p/w-p/b/ Am-Fm/map light National/Regional/Chapter NCRS "Top Flight" #2-1985 Bright Red/Carmine Cp.L-98/auto Member: NCRS, NCRS Texas, Corvette Legends of Texas

Joined: 11/8/2003
Posts: 19449
The first pic is of the radio amplifier. The wires in question also appear to be part of the radio system.
The second pic is of the Emergency/Hazzard Flasher.


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Joel Adams
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5/24/14 10:20am - Reply: 'Re: Need Help Identifying Interior Items'
Jasond56
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Kenosha, WI - USA

Vette(s):
1973 Corvette Stingray Coupe VIN 1Z37J3S418986 350 L-48 Automatic T-Tops St. Louis Assembly, 18,986th car built in 1973, Paint = 976 Mille Miglia Red, Interior = 425 Dark Red Vinyl (Ox Blood)

Joined: 5/7/2014
Posts: 154
Ah okay, thanks! So in other words, nothing to do with my gauges. The clipped wires do make sense now that I know what they are. There is an aftermarket radio and speakers in the vette. The installer must have bypassed those wires for some reason. Neat to know that is the factory amplifier!

____________________________________
"You know, we always called each other goodfellas. Like you'd say to somebody: You're gonna like this guy, he's all right. He's a goodfella. He's one of us. You understand?"




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5/24/14 10:38am - Reply: 'Re: Need Help Identifying Interior Items'
Adams' Apple Lifetime Member
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Duncanville, TX - USA

Vette(s):
#1-1974 L-48 4spd Cp Med Red Metallic/Black deluxe int w/AC/tilt/tele./p/w-p/b/ Am-Fm/map light National/Regional/Chapter NCRS "Top Flight" #2-1985 Bright Red/Carmine Cp.L-98/auto Member: NCRS, NCRS Texas, Corvette Legends of Texas

Joined: 11/8/2003
Posts: 19449
The center dash wasn't deep enough to put in a "normal" GM/Delco radio....they had to separate it into two parts to make it small enough to fit.  Tongue

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Joel Adams
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5/25/14 9:20am - Reply: 'Re: Need Help Identifying Interior Items'
dyoes
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Zachary, LA - USA

Vette(s):
1974 L-48 Auto. Just your basic Vette. GM crate motor w/vortec heads and intake. Crane cam. Scorpion rockers, Edelbrock carb. Lots of parts still in boxes... :(

Joined: 1/27/2013
Posts: 201
Jason,

Is your fuel gauge working?  The fuel, oil, and water gauge all get power from the same PINK wire that runs behind the dash.  (At least I think that's true for your car...  I'm not sure what year they went from a mechanical to electrical oil pressure gauge.)  The clock not working is typically Corvette.  It's rare that you find any of them still working.  But, the wire that powers your clock is also tied to your cigarette lighter (12v on continuously). 

The tach is cable driven on your car and not electronic.  Look for a heavy black cable running from the base of your distributor running inside the car.  If it's not there, or a previous owner has installed a modern HEI ignition that didn't have a cable drive, that explains the tach.  (A decent HEI dizzy is about $150, vice $500 for one with a cable drive.  A lot of these cars have the tachs disconnected for that reason.)

And speaking of the tach, does the "brake" light bulb work when you engage your ebrake?  That's also powered from the pink wire.

Do me a favor, and post a picture of your distributor.  Is is relatively small and round, with a separate coil?  Or larger, with only eight plug wires and no center coil wire?  I have a hunch...  If someone put a modern HEI dizzy in, they would have to have run a new, non-resistor wire to it which means they hacked into the harness somewhere.  That could explain all of your symptoms.


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5/25/14 11:39pm - Reply: 'Re: Need Help Identifying Interior Items'
Jasond56
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Kenosha, WI - USA

Vette(s):
1973 Corvette Stingray Coupe VIN 1Z37J3S418986 350 L-48 Automatic T-Tops St. Louis Assembly, 18,986th car built in 1973, Paint = 976 Mille Miglia Red, Interior = 425 Dark Red Vinyl (Ox Blood)

Joined: 5/7/2014
Posts: 154
First let me just say THANK YOU for the detailed reply! This instrument panel issue keeps me up at night :) Second, please don't think I'm ignoring your request for pics. I'm out of town currently for the holiday and away from the Vette. As soon as I get back in town I will get those pics up! Again, thank you!

____________________________________
"You know, we always called each other goodfellas. Like you'd say to somebody: You're gonna like this guy, he's all right. He's a goodfella. He's one of us. You understand?"




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5/26/14 1:30am - Reply: 'Re: Need Help Identifying Interior Items'
stingrayjim jr Lifetime Member
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SHELBYVILLE, TN - USA

Vette(s):
1976 L48 auto

1978 L82 4speed

1994 LT1 6speed

Joined: 7/5/2002
Posts: 3934
not tooo familiar with the 73 model year, but 76 isn't too far off, there is a  ground wire that runs from one of the starter bolts to the dash, I know I have mistakenly hooked the ground to one of the hot wires on the starter(made sense to me at the time, who would put a ground wire down there??)  all my gauges went funky, and I think the wipers came on by themselves, but..  only took a few minutes to realize what I did wrong...  actually thinking that the wire was suppose to be on a bellhousing bolt and probably got forgotten in a transmission removal and was 'relocated' to one of the bolts for the starter... but, just a thought that you might have a ground issue....  cause there is no body ground for the dash... maybe take a  test light and make sure you are getting juice to the gauges and go from there.. :) 

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StingrayJim
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Stingray's '76                             StingrayJr's '78                           Lil Red '94

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5/30/14 9:30pm - Reply: 'Re: Need Help Identifying Interior Items'
Jasond56
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Kenosha, WI - USA

Vette(s):
1973 Corvette Stingray Coupe VIN 1Z37J3S418986 350 L-48 Automatic T-Tops St. Louis Assembly, 18,986th car built in 1973, Paint = 976 Mille Miglia Red, Interior = 425 Dark Red Vinyl (Ox Blood)

Joined: 5/7/2014
Posts: 154










Okay, finally able to get under the hood today to answer your questions.  I have also attached the pics you requested (and a few extra).

To answer your questions:
-The Fuel gauge seems to float.  I went to gas station today thinking I was near empty because that's what the gauge read, opened my gas cap, peered in, and had a nearly full tank.

-Clock not working...it actually started working today!  I was messing with the clock knob, and the second hand started ticking!  Messed with the knob a bit more to try and set the time, and the second hand stopped.  I think it wants to work, but there is a "sweet spot" with that knob that I just cannot figure out.

-Lighter does not work.  

-Brake light...does not work when E-brake is activated (I took a pic of the only pink wire I see.  It runs from where you see in the picture, across the rocker arm cover and into the cockpit)

-Tach...I took a few pictures of the only black wire I see coming from the base of the distributor, it does not run into the cockpit, but onto the top of the (what I believe is) ignition coil.

-I also attached a picture of a melted wire harness I found in the passenger-side engine compartment.  There are green and black wires running into and out of this (for lack of better word) harness.

I hope I have given you all you requested.  THANKS AGAIN for any help!  




(images resized - Norsky)


|UPDATED|5/30/2014 6:30:15 PM (AZT)|/UPDATED|


____________________________________
"You know, we always called each other goodfellas. Like you'd say to somebody: You're gonna like this guy, he's all right. He's a goodfella. He's one of us. You understand?"




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5/30/14 2:05pm - Reply: 'Re: Need Help Identifying Interior Items'
F4Gary Gold Member
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Grapevine, TX - USA

Vette(s):
1972 LT-1 convertible with factory air.

Joined: 8/26/2006
Posts: 862
Picture no. 4 is your A/C fuse

Picture no. 5 is your idle stop soleniod.

Need to take a pic of the base verticle shaft of your distributor showing from the intake manifold up to the bottom of the big part of the dist.  That is where the tach drive is.


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5/31/14 9:52am - Reply: 'Re: Need Help Identifying Interior Items'
cinor Lifetime Member
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, - Canada

Vette(s):
1975 L48 Stingray 1992 LT1

Joined: 12/24/2013
Posts: 277
its is hard to see how many wires are there but those ends should clip in to the back side of the consul parts for example on your cluster one could go to fuel gauge one to pressure gauge or perhaps a different part of counsul as in one to flasher one to park light etc   can you start at fuse box and follow backwards, the colors of wiring could also help ex park brake alarm is pink, lh  signal is light blue.  if you plan on doing a lot of work yourself the assembly manual is very helpful I got mine at faxon literature

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5/31/14 11:53am - Reply: 'Re: Need Help Identifying Interior Items'
Jasond56
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Kenosha, WI - USA

Vette(s):
1973 Corvette Stingray Coupe VIN 1Z37J3S418986 350 L-48 Automatic T-Tops St. Louis Assembly, 18,986th car built in 1973, Paint = 976 Mille Miglia Red, Interior = 425 Dark Red Vinyl (Ox Blood)

Joined: 5/7/2014
Posts: 154
Thanks for the reply! I haven't decided if I'm going to attempt major work like electrical or if I'm going to farm it out. I did pickup a Chiltons manual and a Haynes manual to look at electric diagrams. It's like reading a foreign language. I can't tell up from down lol!

____________________________________
"You know, we always called each other goodfellas. Like you'd say to somebody: You're gonna like this guy, he's all right. He's a goodfella. He's one of us. You understand?"




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5/31/14 11:54am - Reply: 'Re: Need Help Identifying Interior Items'
Jasond56
Former Member
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Kenosha, WI - USA

Vette(s):
1973 Corvette Stingray Coupe VIN 1Z37J3S418986 350 L-48 Automatic T-Tops St. Louis Assembly, 18,986th car built in 1973, Paint = 976 Mille Miglia Red, Interior = 425 Dark Red Vinyl (Ox Blood)

Joined: 5/7/2014
Posts: 154
Thank you for identifying those items! Chiltons and Haynes did not mention them so I was like, "huh". I will try to get you the pic you requested today!

____________________________________
"You know, we always called each other goodfellas. Like you'd say to somebody: You're gonna like this guy, he's all right. He's a goodfella. He's one of us. You understand?"




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6/1/14 3:49pm - Reply: 'Re: Need Help Identifying Interior Items'
Jasond56
Former Member
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Kenosha, WI - USA

Vette(s):
1973 Corvette Stingray Coupe VIN 1Z37J3S418986 350 L-48 Automatic T-Tops St. Louis Assembly, 18,986th car built in 1973, Paint = 976 Mille Miglia Red, Interior = 425 Dark Red Vinyl (Ox Blood)

Joined: 5/7/2014
Posts: 154
F4Gary said: Picture no. 4 is your A/C fuse

Picture no. 5 is your idle stop soleniod.

Need to take a pic of the base verticle shaft of your distributor showing from the intake manifold up to the bottom of the big part of the dist.  That is where the tach drive is.


Okay, here is the only other black wire.  It's underneath the distributor.  Runs from that silver female piece (which seems wet for some reason) and into the cockpit.  What is that silver female piece and is this the tech cable?


Also, I found this cluster of taped wires under the car, passenger side.  Could this have any bearing on my electrical issues?


Thanks again for any help/advice!


____________________________________
"You know, we always called each other goodfellas. Like you'd say to somebody: You're gonna like this guy, he's all right. He's a goodfella. He's one of us. You understand?"




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6/1/14 11:24pm - Reply: 'Re: Need Help Identifying Interior Items'
dyoes
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Zachary, LA - USA

Vette(s):
1974 L-48 Auto. Just your basic Vette. GM crate motor w/vortec heads and intake. Crane cam. Scorpion rockers, Edelbrock carb. Lots of parts still in boxes... :(

Joined: 1/27/2013
Posts: 201
I think that is the tach cable.  That silver piece should have a larger knurled nut on the end that screws into the base of the distributor.  Your stuff looks stock (or stock replacement, anyway), my theory of a swapped ignition and distributor doesn't hold up. 

Anyway, you can safely say that your tach issue is probably not related to the rest of the gauges.  If you're a contortionist, get your hand up behind the dash and make sure the cable is plugged into the tach.  The tach cable could be broken or the tach itself bad. 

The oil gauge appears to be mechanical also; I think I saw the oil pressure line in one of your pics and there is no electrical gauge shown on the '73 wiring diagram.  No idea why it isn't working.

So I think you have several different issues going on here...

The pink wire feeds the following:

- Door ajar light.  (Does it work?  Probably a silly question, I know!)
- Fuel gauge.  (If it's floating around some, I'd venture that it has power, and the sender or ground is not good.  But without power, it pegs low, I think.)
- Water temp.  (Does it work at all?)
- Parking brake light (Gets power from the ignition, and a ground whenever the park brake is pulled or the system has a low pressure.)

The clock is junk.  Not just yours, but all of them.  If the lighter isn't working, it's probably disconnected in the center console or just broken.  Does a phone charger work if you plug it in?

That power comes from the ignition switch via a fuse.  It's the fuse on the bottom right on my '74, a 10 amp.  With the ignition on, see if you have voltage on BOTH sides of the fuse.  Voltage on one side tells you the fuse is bad, voltage on neither side is an uh-oh in the wiring somewhere.  Voltage on both sides of the fuse means you're good to that point.

Taking out that center stack is not for the faint of heart.  You'll teach yourself swear words that'll make a Navy man blush.

Dad and I have swapped all of the center stack gauges in our cars for AutoMeter 2" units.  They actually work and are reliable!!  If you find the wiring intact behind the dash and don't mind taking the car non-stock, it's an easy swap (and easy to put back again if you choose to later). 





|UPDATED|6/1/2014 8:24:38 PM (AZT)|/UPDATED|


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"Let them that don't want none have memories of not gettin' any."
- Brother Dave Gardner

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6/2/14 10:40am - Reply: 'Re: Need Help Identifying Interior Items'
Jasond56
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Kenosha, WI - USA

Vette(s):
1973 Corvette Stingray Coupe VIN 1Z37J3S418986 350 L-48 Automatic T-Tops St. Louis Assembly, 18,986th car built in 1973, Paint = 976 Mille Miglia Red, Interior = 425 Dark Red Vinyl (Ox Blood)

Joined: 5/7/2014
Posts: 154
dyoes said: I think that is the tach cable.  That silver piece should have a larger knurled nut on the end that screws into the base of the distributor.  Your stuff looks stock (or stock replacement, anyway), my theory of a swapped ignition and distributor doesn't hold up. 

Anyway, you can safely say that your tach issue is probably not related to the rest of the gauges.  If you're a contortionist, get your hand up behind the dash and make sure the cable is plugged into the tach.  The tach cable could be broken or the tach itself bad. 

The oil gauge appears to be mechanical also; I think I saw the oil pressure line in one of your pics and there is no electrical gauge shown on the '73 wiring diagram.  No idea why it isn't working.

So I think you have several different issues going on here...

The pink wire feeds the following:

- Door ajar light.  (Does it work?  Probably a silly question, I know!)
- Fuel gauge.  (If it's floating around some, I'd venture that it has power, and the sender or ground is not good.  But without power, it pegs low, I think.)
- Water temp.  (Does it work at all?)
- Parking brake light (Gets power from the ignition, and a ground whenever the park brake is pulled or the system has a low pressure.)

The clock is junk.  Not just yours, but all of them.  If the lighter isn't working, it's probably disconnected in the center console or just broken.  Does a phone charger work if you plug it in?

That power comes from the ignition switch via a fuse.  It's the fuse on the bottom right on my '74, a 10 amp.  With the ignition on, see if you have voltage on BOTH sides of the fuse.  Voltage on one side tells you the fuse is bad, voltage on neither side is an uh-oh in the wiring somewhere.  Voltage on both sides of the fuse means you're good to that point.

Taking out that center stack is not for the faint of heart.  You'll teach yourself swear words that'll make a Navy man blush.

Dad and I have swapped all of the center stack gauges in our cars for AutoMeter 2" units.  They actually work and are reliable!!  If you find the wiring intact behind the dash and don't mind taking the car non-stock, it's an easy swap (and easy to put back again if you choose to later). 







To answer your questions:
-The door ajar light does work
-Water temp gauge does work, meaning it does move while I'm driving (not sure what is correct, I need to research how it should behave when operating normally)
-Parking brake light - Car is on, in park and I set the brake (which sets VERY easily, not sure if that's a concern) but the BRAKE light does not come on
-Fuel gauge as you said floats quite a bit.  How can I check the Sender and Ground?
-Phone charger to cigarette lighter...brilliant!  Never thought to try that!

Stupid question, when you mention check one side side of the fuse then the other, do you mean while the fuses are in the fuse box, or take the fuses out of the box and check them individually?  I assume I'm using a volt meter of some sort?

Finally, "center stack" = Center panel with all the gauges?  Or the panel with tach and speedometer? 



____________________________________
"You know, we always called each other goodfellas. Like you'd say to somebody: You're gonna like this guy, he's all right. He's a goodfella. He's one of us. You understand?"




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6/2/14 10:54am - Reply: 'Re: Need Help Identifying Interior Items'
Jasond56
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Kenosha, WI - USA

Vette(s):
1973 Corvette Stingray Coupe VIN 1Z37J3S418986 350 L-48 Automatic T-Tops St. Louis Assembly, 18,986th car built in 1973, Paint = 976 Mille Miglia Red, Interior = 425 Dark Red Vinyl (Ox Blood)

Joined: 5/7/2014
Posts: 154
Oops, one more question...any idea about that taped wire cluster in the 2nd pic?  Looks a little "bubba" Dead

____________________________________
"You know, we always called each other goodfellas. Like you'd say to somebody: You're gonna like this guy, he's all right. He's a goodfella. He's one of us. You understand?"




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6/2/14 12:12pm - Reply: 'Re: Need Help Identifying Interior Items'
dskopp
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Oak Creek, WI - USA

Vette(s):
1981 Great White Shark. Red Interior, 350/190hp. PS, PB (SS), A/C CC, T-Tops, Going to remain as Stock as possible. Served three years in Active Duty Army, then Retired Air Force after 34 years! Badger State Vetts Car Club. 175,000 Original miles!!

Joined: 5/21/2008
Posts: 1956
Cinor said: its is hard to see how many wires are there but those ends should clip in to the back side of the consul parts for example on your cluster one could go to fuel gauge one to pressure gauge or perhaps a different part of counsul as in one to flasher one to park light etc   can you start at fuse box and follow backwards, the colors of wiring could also help ex park brake alarm is pink, lh  signal is light blue.  if you plan on doing a lot of work yourself the assembly manual is very helpful I got mine at faxon literature


Nice looking "family" you got, Cindy!!  No mail from you.....yet !


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6/2/14 12:25pm - Reply: 'Re: Need Help Identifying Interior Items'
Adams' Apple Lifetime Member
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Duncanville, TX - USA

Vette(s):
#1-1974 L-48 4spd Cp Med Red Metallic/Black deluxe int w/AC/tilt/tele./p/w-p/b/ Am-Fm/map light National/Regional/Chapter NCRS "Top Flight" #2-1985 Bright Red/Carmine Cp.L-98/auto Member: NCRS, NCRS Texas, Corvette Legends of Texas

Joined: 11/8/2003
Posts: 19449
  
 






|UPDATED|6/2/2014 9:25:33 AM (AZT)|/UPDATED|


____________________________________
Joel Adams
C3VR Lifetime Member #56    
My Link


(click for Texas-sized view!)
             NCRS

"Money can't buy happiness -- but somehow it's more comforting to cry in a CORVETTE than in a Kia"
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6/2/14 8:28pm - Reply: 'Re: Need Help Identifying Interior Items'
dyoes
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Zachary, LA - USA

Vette(s):
1974 L-48 Auto. Just your basic Vette. GM crate motor w/vortec heads and intake. Crane cam. Scorpion rockers, Edelbrock carb. Lots of parts still in boxes... :(

Joined: 1/27/2013
Posts: 201

To answer your questions:
-The door ajar light does work
-Water temp gauge does work, meaning it does move while I'm driving (not sure what is correct, I need to research how it should behave when operating normally)
-Parking brake light - Car is on, in park and I set the brake (which sets VERY easily, not sure if that's a concern) but the BRAKE light does not come on
-Fuel gauge as you said floats quite a bit.  How can I check the Sender and Ground?
-Phone charger to cigarette lighter...brilliant!  Never thought to try that!

Stupid question, when you mention check one side side of the fuse then the other, do you mean while the fuses are in the fuse box, or take the fuses out of the box and check them individually?  I assume I'm using a volt meter of some sort?

Finally, "center stack" = Center panel with all the gauges?  Or the panel with tach and speedometer? 


Sorry... Center stack: yes, center panel with the gauges.  Not sure that's the official term!  Wink

If the door ajar light works, and the fuel and temp gauges work, you've got ignition voltage to the gauge cluster.  Ignore checking the fuse, it's good.

I'd guess that the gauge issues are individual ones... Not one big, easy fix, unfortunately. 

The coolant gauge sensor is in the driver side cylinder head, a single green wire attached.  With the ignition on and the car hot (watch your hands!) unplug it, and see if the gauge pegs low.  Ground the wire to a piece of metal under the hood and it should peg high.  That temperature gauge is really just a voltmeter; the sending unit varies resistance with temperature and translates it to temperature.

Under the bottom of your fuel tank there are two wires: a tan one, and a black one.  With the ignition on, unplug the tan one and see what the gauge does (it should peg).  Then, ground it and look again (should be on empty).  The fuel gauge is (you guessed it) just a volt meter.

Oil pressure: you got me.  It's mechanical.  If it's hooked up, it should work.  Not much to go wrong. 

Tach: Here is a suggestion. 



Unplug it from the distributor.  You should see the end on the left of the picture.  Hook up a power drill to it and spin it (in reverse on speedos, I'm assuming the same for the tach).  See if it works.  If it does, it's the tach drive on the distributor (doubtful).  If it doesn't, it's between the cable and the instrument itself.

Brake light: could just be a bulb. 

Good luck with it all!  Trial and error, and getting your hands dirty.  Two joys of being a classic Corvette owner.




____________________________________


"Let them that don't want none have memories of not gettin' any."
- Brother Dave Gardner

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