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11/25/11 10:01pm - Reply: 'Re: Rotor resurface or replace'
corvette440hp Lifetime Member
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Posts: 8205
Now this is one that you need to see about the grooving of the rotors. It's what you were looking for..................

http://www.oeqf.com/techinfo/scratching/scratching_lg.htm



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corvette440hp
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11/26/11 3:43pm - Reply: 'Re: Rotor resurface or replace'
tb2k82ce Lifetime Member
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Lemon Grove, CA - USA

Vette(s):
1982 C3 Collectors Edition 44000 miles, sat in the sun most of it's life, My wife purchased it for me for fathers day in 2007 from her girl friend that had it for 19 years. It is on the road again. I'm retired but it is now my daily driver.

Joined: 10/17/2007
Posts: 2007
That is it.  How in the heck did you find it?? What did you use for a search?
When you think about all the times you turned your rotors it is kind of scary. To think the times I was broke and just replaced my pads I was much better off safety whys. 

|UPDATED|11/26/2011 12:43:14 PM (AZT)|/UPDATED|


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11/26/11 6:55pm - Reply: 'Re: Rotor resurface or replace'
corvette440hp Lifetime Member
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tb2k82ce said: That is it.  How in the heck did you find it?? What did you use for a search?
When you think about all the times you turned your rotors it is kind of scary. To think the times I was broke and just replaced my pads I was much better off safety whys. 


I knew what you were looking for..........I was waitingEvil Smile to see if anyone would come up with it. I guess I'm eboEvil Smile 2 ......(he taught me well).

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corvette440hp
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11/28/11 1:03am - Reply: 'Re: Rotor resurface or replace'
daveo76
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Vancouver, WA - USA

Vette(s):
1976 Silver/Firethorn. L48, 4spd. Original 2 bolt, vortec heads, 9.4:1 CR, Speed Pro Cam: 224/224@0.050, 112 LSA, Eagle Steel Crank.

Joined: 8/25/2005
Posts: 829
That's an interesting video.  Will make me think twice about turning rotors next time, but it sounds like turning is still a viable option if all the conditions are met and the grooves are removed with non-directional finishing.  I'd be interested in finding out more about that procedure.  So is that the kind of thing where you bring them home from the shop and then apply that finish yourself with a hand-held random orbital sander?  Or should that be applied with a special machine while still in the lathe fixture?  I'd be worried about screwing them up worse than before.  I'm not asking for my 'Vette, but my wife's Honda Odyssey is starting to pulsate just a little and I was thinking I'd have the front rotors turned for starters.  

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1976 Silver/Firethorn.  L48, 4spd.  Original 2 bolt, vortec heads, 9.4:1 CR, Speed Pro Cam: 224/224@0.050, 112 LSA, Eagle Steel Crank.
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11/28/11 9:14pm - Reply: 'Re: Rotor resurface or replace'
corvette440hp Lifetime Member
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I would rather they did it where the rotors were resurfaced.........if they can and are willing to do it.

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11/28/11 9:56pm - Reply: 'Re: Rotor resurface or replace'
yostusota
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York, PA - USA

Vette(s):
1969 daytona conv. all original 350 350 380 4 sp w/air..and hard top

Joined: 5/18/2010
Posts: 1518
Depending on the year Honda she has could really make a difference in cut or replace..the older ones had the hubs on the outside and had to press out the bearing to get the rotor off..I would highly suggest some kind of one the car brake lathe..I think its a tool Honda dealers have to have now since all the rotor issues they had..the finish should be done wherever the rotors are cut..

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My first parade at Carlisle 2010
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11/28/11 11:20pm - Reply: 'Re: Rotor resurface or replace'
daveo76
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Vancouver, WA - USA

Vette(s):
1976 Silver/Firethorn. L48, 4spd. Original 2 bolt, vortec heads, 9.4:1 CR, Speed Pro Cam: 224/224@0.050, 112 LSA, Eagle Steel Crank.

Joined: 8/25/2005
Posts: 829
Good to know, Rich!  About what year did they change, do you know?  We have an '07 - the generation started in '05, I think.  

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1976 Silver/Firethorn.  L48, 4spd.  Original 2 bolt, vortec heads, 9.4:1 CR, Speed Pro Cam: 224/224@0.050, 112 LSA, Eagle Steel Crank.
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11/28/11 11:32pm - Reply: 'Re: Rotor resurface or replace'
yostusota
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York, PA - USA

Vette(s):
1969 daytona conv. all original 350 350 380 4 sp w/air..and hard top

Joined: 5/18/2010
Posts: 1518
Yeah when I say old I guess I meant the first Gen..like 95!!.. the 07 is a simple set up..they had issues with the hub not being true so on the car became the norm in 01-02..don't get me started on the trans in that car!!!.In the video of the on car lathe it shows the guy using a wizzer wheel to burnish the surface and that works really good..I have access to the bodyshop sand paper cabinet so I use the 40 grit stuff that really works good for a finish..been using the on the car lathe now for at least 10 years and its worked great everytime.

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My first parade at Carlisle 2010
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11/29/11 2:23pm - Reply: 'Re: Rotor resurface or replace'
Adams' Apple Lifetime Member
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Duncanville, TX - USA

Vette(s):
#1-1974 L-48 4spd Cp Med Red Metallic/Black deluxe int w/AC/tilt/tele./p/w-p/b/ Am-Fm/map light National/Regional/Chapter NCRS "Top Flight" #2-1985 Bright Red/Carmine Cp.L-98/auto Member: NCRS, NCRS Texas, Corvette Legends of Texas

Joined: 11/8/2003
Posts: 19447
Folks, there's no problem with having your rotors turned on a lathe, whether on-the-car, or on a bench lathe. They've been doing them like that for 100 years(drums & rotors). The main issue is operator skill, and lathe quality. I have an antique Accuturn lathe that will turn a rotor just fine. I do use a sanding disc in a die grinder, and knock the grooves down a bit, while the rotor is still turning on the lathe. Haven't had a problem yet. I have also re-done rotors that we had sent out to a machine shop, because they always seem to have too rough of a cut on them....they get in a hurry, so the final results suffers. That's the operator skills part...not a reflection of having them cut on a lathe...
Don't be askeered to have your rotors turned. If they are within the minimum thickness allowance, as marked on the rotor, turning them is fine. You just need to find a shop that is qualified to do it. Thumbs Up


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Joel Adams
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1/11/12 2:17pm - Reply: 'Re: Rotor resurface or replace'
yostusota
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York, PA - USA

Vette(s):
1969 daytona conv. all original 350 350 380 4 sp w/air..and hard top

Joined: 5/18/2010
Posts: 1518
Not to beat a dead horse but here's a rotor I did today on the car..


http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd378/rweaver11/2011-12-02_15-27-32_808.jpg



(large image changed to link-aapple)


|UPDATED|1/11/2012 11:17:03 AM (AZT)|/UPDATED|


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1/8/12 1:52am - Reply: 'Re: Rotor resurface or replace'
daveo76
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Vancouver, WA - USA

Vette(s):
1976 Silver/Firethorn. L48, 4spd. Original 2 bolt, vortec heads, 9.4:1 CR, Speed Pro Cam: 224/224@0.050, 112 LSA, Eagle Steel Crank.

Joined: 8/25/2005
Posts: 829
I was talking to a the owner of a 'Vette resto shop today and he told me the front rotors DO need to be re-riveted on to the hubs.  Even after I told him the Delcos I purchased don't have the rivet holes he suggested I drill them.  I'm wondering if this is the case of him wanting to do the work, because I can't really see a functional need for re-riveting.  I know it'd be important for NCRS stuff, but that's not applicable in my case.  If my new rotors had the holes I'm sure I'd have them re-riveted or tap them for countersunk bolts, but I don't plan on drilling any holes.  Just looking for confirmation here to ease my mind.   Thanks, Dave

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1976 Silver/Firethorn.  L48, 4spd.  Original 2 bolt, vortec heads, 9.4:1 CR, Speed Pro Cam: 224/224@0.050, 112 LSA, Eagle Steel Crank.
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1/8/12 3:26am - Reply: 'Re: Rotor resurface or replace'
yostusota
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York, PA - USA

Vette(s):
1969 daytona conv. all original 350 350 380 4 sp w/air..and hard top

Joined: 5/18/2010
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If I remember right the reason they were riveted on was to have the hub and rotor trued before assembly..make things go faster on the line..plus the next yahoo to work on the car wouldn't take the rotor off and then have brake issues..like caliper or vibration..I think the answer is right there anyhow...you can buy the rivets from many company's...but those same ones sell rotors without the rivets..if there was a true safety issue would anyone be selling rotors without the holes to rivet them back on? I put the NAPA ones on the back if mine..they didn't have holes either.

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1/8/12 11:16am - Reply: 'Re: Rotor resurface or replace'
rod7515 Lifetime Member
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Red Lion, PA - USA

Vette(s):
1974 White 350 Corvette, TH400 Automatic 1972 Tangerine /Go Mango Convertible 383 Stroker, 2004r Automatic

Joined: 10/27/2006
Posts: 1172
I believe the choice to have rivets is with the person that owns the car. In my honest opinion they are not a functional part. As for removing the rotors from the hub I would agree with marking the rotor so they go back on at the same position but once the tire is bolted fast to the hub the rotor is in place just as the rivets would have held them from new. I actually resurface my rotors with an old brake lathe but I bolt them tight to the hub for turning. I make sure that when I put them on the car they go back in the same indexing location as when I turned them. I have not had any issues with mine at all and thats the way they would have been done before there was the new equipment to turn them while they stayed on the car. Dont get me wrong, I am sure that the new equipment today will probably do a better job then an old brake lathe, but if the cutting bits are new and the machine is in good condition a true rotor is a true rotor!
Rodney

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1/8/12 12:37pm - Reply: 'Re: Rotor resurface or replace'
Adams' Apple Lifetime Member
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Duncanville, TX - USA

Vette(s):
#1-1974 L-48 4spd Cp Med Red Metallic/Black deluxe int w/AC/tilt/tele./p/w-p/b/ Am-Fm/map light National/Regional/Chapter NCRS "Top Flight" #2-1985 Bright Red/Carmine Cp.L-98/auto Member: NCRS, NCRS Texas, Corvette Legends of Texas

Joined: 11/8/2003
Posts: 19447
Rotors do NOT have to be riveted to the hubs...period. As far as NCRS, we don't check crap like that anyway, except on Bowtie award cars.

The main reason for them being riveted to start with was, as Rich said, to make sure they were as true as possible, and to make assembly quicker on the line. It was not then, nor is it now, a safety issue. Personally, I prefer to keep the front rotors/hubs together as an assembly...something that is not possible with the rears on our cars. I don;t see the need to drill the rivets out on the fronts. If the rotors are too thin, or damaged to be turned, I'd just as soon replace the rotor/hub assembly as to drill the rivets, and just replace the rotor. That's just my personal thing. The complete hub/rotor assy isn't that much more expensive, imho, than going thru the hassle of drilling the rivets.

As far as re-riveting new rotors back onto a hub, that takes some serious hydraulic pressure/equipment to do correctly...not something most shops will have access to. Get one rivet mashed, with the rotor not fully seated to the hub, and you've got a problem that will never go away.

Thass my story, an I be stickin wid it....Geek


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Joel Adams
C3VR Lifetime Member #56    
My Link


(click for Texas-sized view!)
             NCRS

"Money can't buy happiness -- but somehow it's more comforting to cry in a CORVETTE than in a Kia"
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1/9/12 2:18am - Reply: 'Re: Rotor resurface or replace'
daveo76
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Vancouver, WA - USA

Vette(s):
1976 Silver/Firethorn. L48, 4spd. Original 2 bolt, vortec heads, 9.4:1 CR, Speed Pro Cam: 224/224@0.050, 112 LSA, Eagle Steel Crank.

Joined: 8/25/2005
Posts: 829
Thanks for putting my mind at ease on this, guys.  I'm going to keep them un-riveted/un-bolted for sure.  I've read a lot about this lately and it seems like it was needed to true the hub/rotor as an assembly because the hubs were cast so poorly that there was no way they'd be in spec for runout if the rotors were just slid over the studs like on cars today.  Probably explains why I'm still having runout trouble on one of my new rotors.  I've tried many different combinations of shims around various studs and seem to be chasing my tail.  I'm considering going with one of those tapered shims that slides over the studs.  Rock Auto sells them for cheaper than I was expecting ($14 or so) and they make them for corrections of .003, .006, and .009.  Anyone have any experience with these?  




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1976 Silver/Firethorn.  L48, 4spd.  Original 2 bolt, vortec heads, 9.4:1 CR, Speed Pro Cam: 224/224@0.050, 112 LSA, Eagle Steel Crank.
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1/9/12 2:37pm - Reply: 'Re: Rotor resurface or replace'
rod7515 Lifetime Member
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Red Lion, PA - USA

Vette(s):
1974 White 350 Corvette, TH400 Automatic 1972 Tangerine /Go Mango Convertible 383 Stroker, 2004r Automatic

Joined: 10/27/2006
Posts: 1172
Dave,
Another option would be to remove the hubs and have the rotors turned on the hubs then install them to the car. You shouldn't have to take more then a few thousandths to have them trued. Just a thought.
Rodney


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1/11/12 1:10am - Reply: 'Re: Rotor resurface or replace'
daveo76
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Vancouver, WA - USA

Vette(s):
1976 Silver/Firethorn. L48, 4spd. Original 2 bolt, vortec heads, 9.4:1 CR, Speed Pro Cam: 224/224@0.050, 112 LSA, Eagle Steel Crank.

Joined: 8/25/2005
Posts: 829
Thanks, Rodney.  Yeah, that could be an option to consider.  I'm assuming I'd just bolt the rotor to the hub with all the lug nuts (torqued properly and equally of course)?  I'm a bit ignorant about brake lathes, though - how would the assembly be attached to the lathe?  Do they attach through the hole for the spindle?  

I could also put everything together and once I get this car on the road I could drive it to a shop that has one of those on-car Pro Cut machines that I think Rich has mentioned.  

I'm really close on one side (.003) but on the other I think about the closest I've come is .007.  


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1976 Silver/Firethorn.  L48, 4spd.  Original 2 bolt, vortec heads, 9.4:1 CR, Speed Pro Cam: 224/224@0.050, 112 LSA, Eagle Steel Crank.
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1/11/12 10:24am - Reply: 'Re: Rotor resurface or replace'
yostusota
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York, PA - USA

Vette(s):
1969 daytona conv. all original 350 350 380 4 sp w/air..and hard top

Joined: 5/18/2010
Posts: 1518
Look at it as how much your time is worth..most shops charge 100$ to cut the rotors with the pro cut..just make sure your bearings are seated and adjusted properly..it will cut them if they are a little loose but not to loose..it will take out the bearing play with its automatic adjusting head..but it gets confused if its to loose..if they are not corvette guys pick up some piston holders for the calipers..it will keep them from coming out when the caliper is removed to cut the rotor on the car..they are found in the brake section of pretty much any catalog I've seen..I think they are under the 20$ for a set..if you have those it will take out the difficult corvette factor and then anyone can do it.. But like I said..how much is your time worth..plus the pro cut will only need to kiss the rotor to true it up and your done..if you do get that done make sure you specify that they only take off a minute amount of material..be need to go crazy on new rotors to kick that small amount of rotor run out off.. Your choice on this...you know what I have done..but then again..I got the machine..road trip??

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1/12/12 3:11am - Reply: 'Re: Rotor resurface or replace'
daveo76
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Vancouver, WA - USA

Vette(s):
1976 Silver/Firethorn. L48, 4spd. Original 2 bolt, vortec heads, 9.4:1 CR, Speed Pro Cam: 224/224@0.050, 112 LSA, Eagle Steel Crank.

Joined: 8/25/2005
Posts: 829
Yep, Rich, it sounds like that choice may not be too cost effective. Probably my best bet is to just keep messing around with shims. (I just need to get out there and work on it - haven't been out in the garage since before Christmas) Road trip, hmmm.... The distance between PA and Vancouver, WA may eat up that $100 pretty quick!

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1976 Silver/Firethorn.  L48, 4spd.  Original 2 bolt, vortec heads, 9.4:1 CR, Speed Pro Cam: 224/224@0.050, 112 LSA, Eagle Steel Crank.
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1/12/12 6:04am - Reply: 'Re: Rotor resurface or replace'
yostusota
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York, PA - USA

Vette(s):
1969 daytona conv. all original 350 350 380 4 sp w/air..and hard top

Joined: 5/18/2010
Posts: 1518
The shims you can get it dialed in fine...I just look at everything at what's my time worth..just how I'm wired..I haven't paid anyone to do anything to my cars but I think I may be in a minority just because of what I do and the equipment I have available to me whenever I want to use it.. road trip!!?? Wow that would be a long one!! You ever make it out here and need anything done look me up! Good luck on the last bit of tweaking on the run out!!

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My first parade at Carlisle 2010
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