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6/2/15 3:14pm - Original Message: 'While I've Got That Apart - PROJECT COMPLETE'
Vman73
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Gig Harbor, WA - USA

Vette(s):
1973 L82 4 Speed Coupe - Very original, well documented driver/survivor. 2016 Bend Regional NCRS Top Flight.

Joined: 10/2/2014
Posts: 362
So I'm about to embark on one of my favorite journeys, something I'm sure we've all done at some point on these cars - the classic "While I've Got That Apart".

I need to order a correct set of radiator/heater hoses from Blair's so I can put my rebuilt original water pump back on my '73. Picturing this process in my mind, I immediately see the timing chain cover right behind the WP. Even with only 66k miles on the engine, I know what the 43 year old plastic coated cam gear is going to look like, so add new timing chain and gears to the list. Got to pull the damper, so might as well make sure it's aligned where it's supposed to be and still in good shape.

In order to properly change the timing gear cover and take care of some of those little "drips" on the floor, remove/replace the oil pan gasket and rear main seal. Gee, while the oil pan is off, check the pick up tube, screen and oil pump. While I'm under there, get the correct GM plug wires properly routed through the motor mounts and do some more cleaning. Might as well replace the mounts since they're also caked with 43 years worth of grime and oil.

Then there's the last drip, non motor related (other than me), rebuild the power steering valve. I rebuilt the power steering ram last year, now the valve is leaking. 

So does this cover it all or is there something I'm missing ?? I'd like to stop somewhere before the rear license plate, LOL !!

Correct radiator/heater hoses
Timing chain cover gasket and seal
Timing chain and gear set (true roller ?)
Oil pan gasket (single pc.), new rear main seal (two pc.)
Oil pump and that plastic connector thingy
Correct plug wires
New motor mounts
PS valve rebuild kit

Been a while since I've gone down this path, looking for anyone who's got the hot tip on the latest parts or 
'how to's" to make a return from this journey as smooth as possible. I would also like to complete all tasks with the folks at NCRS in mind.

Thanks in advance for any input !!
 





|UPDATED|6/2/2015 1:14:36 PM (AZT)|/UPDATED|


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John Sigmund
valkman57@sbcglobal.net
NCRS Member 61302
NW NCRS Chapter Member



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4/14/15 3:14pm - Reply: 'Re: While I've Got That Apart'
danascar
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Germansville, PA - USA

Vette(s):
1974 Coupe 358ci 4 speed Black w/Medium Saddle interior w/79 custom leather seats. 1999 Covertible, 6 speed, Atomic orange, Oak interior

Joined: 1/28/2010
Posts: 763
Couple of quick things come to mind to check in the same area are the fuel pump, lines and filters. Look real close at the rubber in the damper, any dry rot get rid of it. Also the rad hoses, much easier to replace with front engine parts out of the way, this is all assuming you haven't already done them.

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4/14/15 3:42pm - Reply: 'Re: While I've Got That Apart'
indy99
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Newport, MI - USA

Vette(s):
1980 L-48 still in the middle of a frame-off.

Joined: 6/9/2005
Posts: 926
since you are about halfway there..... just do a frame off and get it all done.LOL

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Corvettes and women are the same...You want to make love to them but they keep breaking down.
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4/14/15 10:24pm - Reply: 'Re: While I've Got That Apart'
F4Gary Gold Member
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Grapevine, TX - USA

Vette(s):
1972 LT-1 convertible with factory air.

Joined: 8/26/2006
Posts: 870
May as well just pull the motor...

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4/15/15 6:52am - Reply: 'Re: While I've Got That Apart'
manchestershark Lifetime Member
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Equinunk, PA - USA

Vette(s):
1972 conv, 4-speed, 350, 200hp, numbers match, rally wheels, war bonnett yellow w/white top. good condition, nice driver.

Joined: 10/31/2007
Posts: 1901
Thumbs Up  I TOTALLY agree with the last two posts!  Go for broke. You'll not have to do things twice.

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4/15/15 12:00pm - Reply: 'Re: While I've Got That Apart'
Adams' Apple Lifetime Member
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Duncanville, TX - USA

Vette(s):
#1-1974 L-48 4spd Cp Med Red Metallic/Black deluxe int w/AC/tilt/tele./p/w-p/b/ Am-Fm/map light National/Regional/Chapter NCRS "Top Flight" #2-1985 Bright Red/Carmine Cp.L-98/auto Member: NCRS, NCRS Texas, Corvette Legends of Texas

Joined: 11/8/2003
Posts: 19458
Don't even bother replacing the timing chain unless you go with a true double roller set up. Gears and chain. Not worth the effort otherwise, imho. You can get the sets just about anywhere(NAPA, Autozone, etc), but get a name brand, not a plain brown wrapper set. Thumbs Up

Have fun doing the rear main seals. The trick to doing those and them NOT leaking is to off-set the ends of the seals. If you install the seals with the split on the same plane as the rear main cap/block, the seals WILL leak. Don't let anyone tell ya it won't.

Check the hub on the harmonic balancer closely for a groove, right where the front seal rides. If it is grooved, you'll either need to replace the balancer, or get a stainless sleeve to install over the hub.

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Joel Adams
C3VR Lifetime Member #56    
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"Money can't buy happiness -- but somehow it's more comforting to cry in a CORVETTE than in a Kia"
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4/15/15 5:35pm - Reply: 'Re: While I've Got That Apart'
Vman73
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Gig Harbor, WA - USA

Vette(s):
1973 L82 4 Speed Coupe - Very original, well documented driver/survivor. 2016 Bend Regional NCRS Top Flight.

Joined: 10/2/2014
Posts: 362
Thanks for the input, offsetting the seal makes perfect sense. I'll also get the timing cover gasket set that includes the balancer sleeve if I need it. My biggest concern is that the balancer has moved or the rubber liner is toast. Do anybody still rebuild those things ??

I added fuel pump to the list, rubber hoses already replaced. I think it's still the original pump, I'll take it down if only to clean it up decently.

Spoke with Brian and parts from Bair's are on order, now to find a decent local timing chain set and all of the gaskets. I'll update my original post with P/N's for future reference. 

Sorry, no frame off or motor pull this time around !! 

Let me know if anyone thinks of anything else.


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John Sigmund
valkman57@sbcglobal.net
NCRS Member 61302
NW NCRS Chapter Member



Duct tape is the new Black !!
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4/16/15 12:20pm - Reply: 'Re: While I've Got That Apart'
Adams' Apple Lifetime Member
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Duncanville, TX - USA

Vette(s):
#1-1974 L-48 4spd Cp Med Red Metallic/Black deluxe int w/AC/tilt/tele./p/w-p/b/ Am-Fm/map light National/Regional/Chapter NCRS "Top Flight" #2-1985 Bright Red/Carmine Cp.L-98/auto Member: NCRS, NCRS Texas, Corvette Legends of Texas

Joined: 11/8/2003
Posts: 19458
 You do know the "While I'm There" virus is incurable, don't you, John?

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Joel Adams
C3VR Lifetime Member #56    
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"Money can't buy happiness -- but somehow it's more comforting to cry in a CORVETTE than in a Kia"
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4/16/15 2:36pm - Reply: 'Re: While I've Got That Apart'
Vman73
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Gig Harbor, WA - USA

Vette(s):
1973 L82 4 Speed Coupe - Very original, well documented driver/survivor. 2016 Bend Regional NCRS Top Flight.

Joined: 10/2/2014
Posts: 362
Adams' Apple said:  You do know the "While I'm There" virus is incurable, don't you, John?

Hey Joel - incurable virus, addiction, OCD and a few other terms come to mind. The good news is my wife knows what I'm spending my time and money on, and she's all good with that !!

Spent some time yesterday looking for a timing chain set and the rest of the stuff at my local parts stores, that turned out to be a waste of time. Three stores, only two could figure out what I was looking for and both could only get half of what I needed - shocking !! 

Ended up ordering everything I needed from Summit Racing online about midnight last night. Everything in stock, should be here by Tuesday.

I ended up going with a Comp Cams 3100, the latest Fel-Pro gaskets and seals, Sealed Power HV oil pump and new pick up. All in with free shipping $158.00 !! The rest of the stuff is coming from Bair's (at about twice that price) and I'm ready to roll. 

I'm going to try and keep the blinders on while I'm under there, but you know how that goes. I'll post pics and commentary as soon as the project begins.     



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John Sigmund
valkman57@sbcglobal.net
NCRS Member 61302
NW NCRS Chapter Member



Duct tape is the new Black !!
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4/17/15 10:46am - Reply: 'Re: While I've Got That Apart'
dwa175 Gold Member
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oakville, CT - USA

Vette(s):
1979 coupe and now 2007 c-6

Joined: 7/19/2014
Posts: 183
hello   I understand but your the only one that can put stop sign very hard to do .if you keep going there is no end    do what you what to do  must stop somewere.   most its time or money.  have a good time dwa

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4/17/15 11:58am - Reply: 'Re: While I've Got That Apart'
Adams' Apple Lifetime Member
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Duncanville, TX - USA

Vette(s):
#1-1974 L-48 4spd Cp Med Red Metallic/Black deluxe int w/AC/tilt/tele./p/w-p/b/ Am-Fm/map light National/Regional/Chapter NCRS "Top Flight" #2-1985 Bright Red/Carmine Cp.L-98/auto Member: NCRS, NCRS Texas, Corvette Legends of Texas

Joined: 11/8/2003
Posts: 19458
When you get the new oil pump, remove the bottom plate, and flat sand it, to make SURE it is perfectly flat. Do the same with the bottom of the pump itself. You'd be surprised at how many are warped beyond recognition. Then put a small amount of a light grease(lubriplate works well) on the pump gears, inside the pump housing, and on the bottom plate before re-assembling it. This will ensure the pump will pick up oil instantly when you first fire it up, as well as provide some lubrication to an otherwise DRY oil pump, on start-up. Thumbs Up

If you want to verify the outer ring on the balancer, get the #1 piston up on Top Dead Center on the compression stroke, and check the marks. The groove/line on the balancer should be aligned EXACTLY on the "0", or "V" on the timing tab. If it's just a wee bit off, it could simply be the tab is bent, or something like that. If it is off more than a few degrees, the outer ring has moved. Of course, if the rubber is cracked all to hades, you should go ahead and replace it..."while you're there". Wink

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Joel Adams
C3VR Lifetime Member #56    
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             NCRS

"Money can't buy happiness -- but somehow it's more comforting to cry in a CORVETTE than in a Kia"
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4/17/15 1:58pm - Reply: 'Re: While I've Got That Apart'
Vman73
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Gig Harbor, WA - USA

Vette(s):
1973 L82 4 Speed Coupe - Very original, well documented driver/survivor. 2016 Bend Regional NCRS Top Flight.

Joined: 10/2/2014
Posts: 362
Joel - Will do on the new oil pump and the balancer, keep the tips coming !! Wow, Summit Racing just made the top of my preferred vendor's list. Online order placed late Wednesday night about midnight PST, the complete shipment from their Sparks NV warehouse arrived at my door this morning !!

|UPDATED|4/17/2015 11:58:33 AM (AZT)|/UPDATED|


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John Sigmund
valkman57@sbcglobal.net
NCRS Member 61302
NW NCRS Chapter Member



Duct tape is the new Black !!
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4/17/15 11:43pm - Reply: 'Re: While I've Got That Apart'
Tom74
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Eagle Point, OR - USA

Vette(s):
74 Stingray Coupe, T-Tops, Matching Numbers L48/auto, Yellow w/ Black interior

Joined: 6/5/2013
Posts: 15
John, You are right about Summit Racing. I use them a lot for the various cars I work on. Living in southern Oregon I usually get my parts from them the next day. Their customer service is No.1, at least in the Sparks Dist. Center. 
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4/18/15 6:29am - Reply: 'Re: While I've Got That Apart'
cinor Lifetime Member
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, - Canada

Vette(s):
1975 L48 Stingray 1992 LT1

Joined: 12/24/2013
Posts: 285
Thats what i said too and look what happened to me.



http://www.c3vr.com/member_uploads/26301_26400/26343/my-cars-024-(640x460).jpg

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4/18/15 8:02am - Reply: 'Re: While I've Got That Apart'
dwa175 Gold Member
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oakville, CT - USA

Vette(s):
1979 coupe and now 2007 c-6

Joined: 7/19/2014
Posts: 183
a-man    been there  don't want to go back   dwa

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4/18/15 11:09am - Reply: 'Re: While I've Got That Apart'
Vman73
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Gig Harbor, WA - USA

Vette(s):
1973 L82 4 Speed Coupe - Very original, well documented driver/survivor. 2016 Bend Regional NCRS Top Flight.

Joined: 10/2/2014
Posts: 362
Cindy - been there, done that (twice), looks like your doing a great job !! I am desperately trying to keep the body on and engine in this one. Keep us posted on your progress. What your current ETA on completion ??

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John Sigmund
valkman57@sbcglobal.net
NCRS Member 61302
NW NCRS Chapter Member



Duct tape is the new Black !!
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5/22/15 2:12am - Reply: 'Re: While I've Got That Apart'
Vman73
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Gig Harbor, WA - USA

Vette(s):
1973 L82 4 Speed Coupe - Very original, well documented driver/survivor. 2016 Bend Regional NCRS Top Flight.

Joined: 10/2/2014
Posts: 362
So its been a couple weeks since I started my water pump to rear main seal project and I thought I'd post some pics and an update. Overall the project has gone smooth, really smooth. Things were pretty dirty and grimey, but no major problems during the tear down. Nothing busted, stripped or otherwise threw a monkey wrench into the works. I've been taking my time, cleaning, tagging and bagging everything for easy re-assembly. The only real issues I've had so far were some new parts that were close, but required some exchange.

Under the "very glad I did this" column are the timing chain and oil pan.

 

The timing chain was the original and surprisingly the plastic coated cam gear was in still one piece. It was showing a bit of age and had a few cracks in it so I'm glad it's outta there. The chain itself was the worst part - as a result of gear wear, chain stretch or both, it had a strong 1/2" of play on each side. Bye bye Mr. chain !!

The oil pan was the other part of the "glad I did this". The pick-up screen was pretty gritty and there was about 1/4" of gray "bubble gum" sludge in the bottom of the pan. New pick-up installed and pan nice and clean, I also was able to carefully tap out a few dents in the oil pan before a coat of paint.



So now it's time for the new chain and gears, Comp Cams 3100 true roller. Fit like a glove and I've got to say some pretty serious engineering went into getting that wider chain and gears under the stock TC cover. I got out the calipers and the calculator several times to make sure it was going to clear both the block and cover.



 As part of the clean-up effort I removed the fuel pump. It certainly looks original, but I need to do some research into the PN number I found. Anyone got AC fuel pump part number ID codes ?? Removing the fuel pump also made replacement of the RH motor mount much easier. With some clean up and new motor mounts on both sides I could actually see where my new plug wires needed to be routed up to the forward plugs.



Here's a shot of the the top end with TC back on, plug wires routed and PS pump cleaned and ready to go. Just waiting for the return of my harmonic balancer. Found a guy down in Salem OR. that specializes in HB's. Cleaned, reset to original specs and bonded with a special silicone that replaces the original rubber sleeve. Guaranteed for the life of the car and he rebuilt my original balancer, not one from the core pile.



Another shot from the bottom end. PS control valve rebuilt and installed with new pressure and return lines to the pump. Except for some oil and a new filter, the bottom side is ready to go. 

Here's where I ran into a few parts problems. 

First of all the pick-up I ordered was too short and would not clear the internal oil pan baffle, no big deal. Also had to search out a new oil pump. The high volume pump I ordered from Summit came with a warning label that it was high pressure, not what I ordered. Called Summit, they called Sealed Power and assured me the the pump was high volume only and the warning label was inserted by mistake. Looking at the box, which looked as though it had been previously opened, I decided to play it safe and install a standard pressure/volume pump fresh from my local Napa.

The final parts disappointment was the new one piece oil pan gasket by Felpro. I had just used their new t-stat gasket with the built in o-ring and was looking forward to the one piece pan gasket. Out of the box it looked great but as I started to read the instructions and noticed the new set of pan bolts that came in the kit, I knew I had a problem. The new gasket is quite a bit thicker than the standard and they highly recommend the use of the longer bolts for proper thread engagement. Doing a little dry fit, it soon became clear that my original pan bolts wouldn't even come close. Being the original nuts and bolts guy that I am, back to Napa for the std. 4 piece kit. I think the new gasket is a great gasket design and I may use it on other vehicles, just not this one.

More to come when my HB arrives !! 





|UPDATED|5/22/2015 12:12:32 AM (AZT)|/UPDATED|


____________________________________
John Sigmund
valkman57@sbcglobal.net
NCRS Member 61302
NW NCRS Chapter Member



Duct tape is the new Black !!
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5/22/15 6:24am - Reply: 'Re: While I've Got That Apart - PROJECT UPDATE'
Adams' Apple Lifetime Member
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Duncanville, TX - USA

Vette(s):
#1-1974 L-48 4spd Cp Med Red Metallic/Black deluxe int w/AC/tilt/tele./p/w-p/b/ Am-Fm/map light National/Regional/Chapter NCRS "Top Flight" #2-1985 Bright Red/Carmine Cp.L-98/auto Member: NCRS, NCRS Texas, Corvette Legends of Texas

Joined: 11/8/2003
Posts: 19458
The 40769 fuel pump is correct for the car. Same pump was/is used for several year/car models....very common pump.
Looking good!! Thumbs Up


____________________________________
Joel Adams
C3VR Lifetime Member #56    
My Link


(click for Texas-sized view!)
             NCRS

"Money can't buy happiness -- but somehow it's more comforting to cry in a CORVETTE than in a Kia"
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5/22/15 1:05pm - Reply: 'Re: While I've Got That Apart - PROJECT UPDATE'
Vman73
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Gig Harbor, WA - USA

Vette(s):
1973 L82 4 Speed Coupe - Very original, well documented driver/survivor. 2016 Bend Regional NCRS Top Flight.

Joined: 10/2/2014
Posts: 362
Hey Joel, thanks for confirming the fuel pump P/N. I also did some digging and found date code information on the NCRS website - the 305L preceeding the P/N is the Julian date code for the pump. 305 = October 31st, L = 1972, both are perfect for my December 13th, 1972 car !!

____________________________________
John Sigmund
valkman57@sbcglobal.net
NCRS Member 61302
NW NCRS Chapter Member



Duct tape is the new Black !!
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5/24/15 9:24am - Reply: 'Re: While I've Got That Apart - PROJECT UPDATE'
cinor Lifetime Member
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, - Canada

Vette(s):
1975 L48 Stingray 1992 LT1

Joined: 12/24/2013
Posts: 285
Wow looks great, sadly I'm a long way from where you are.  Just finished seeding so hopefully get to sandblasting the frame in June.My hopes are to have suspension all back on car this fall, I do have some of it all redone and just waiting for frame so I can continue.  On the other hand I have been working on my 92, just back from shop where i had the cracks fixed on fenders and a paint job.  Looks like previous owner had fender flares on it and did a poor job of fixing the holes, hence the cracks, now I'm hoping to replace front and rear seal as it has developed oil leaks and that drives me crazy.  Not going to do that I will take it to a shop some things are just worth paying for when you don't have a hoist to work on these cars. Thumbs Up

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