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Topic: '76 Concersion - Tranny trouble

in Forum: C3 Driveline Components


'76 Concersion - Tranny trouble

Posted: 10/19/06 9:11pm Message 1 of 13
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Franklin Square, NY - USA
Joined: 4/18/2004
Posts: 116
Vette(s): ' 76 Customized .Mid year rear window ( ' 67 style ). It has an '80 nose,'80 rear bumper , and a 76 hood . Also , I squeezed in a ' 94 Vette LT1 . Paint is a custom mixed BLACK with RED PEARL mixed in !

Yes, Frankenvette still hasn't seen the road, except for a mere 10 minutes . Seems there is a tranny problem . In short, we put a  '94 Corvette LT1 with the 4L60E tranny into a '76 . Trouble is it shifts from 1st right into 4th .

The shop put it on a dyno and said it went through all 4 gears.
They say it seems to be either the speed sensor or a problem with the computer . They found that either the sensor or computer is feeding a speed twice the normal to the tranny to shift. Sounds odd to me, even wrong .
So, anyone with this set up , doesnt have to be the conversion , ever run into this nightmare ? If so, what's the fix ?Dead



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'76 Concersion - Tranny trouble

Posted: 10/20/06 5:03am Message 2 of 13
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Duncanville, TX - USA
Joined: 11/8/2003
Posts: 20219
Vette(s): #1-1974 L-48 4spd Cp Med Red Metallic/Black deluxe int w/AC/tilt/tele./p/w-p/b/ Am-Fm/map light National/Regional/Chapter NCRS "Top Flight" #2-1985 Bright Red/Carmine Cp.L-98/auto Member: NCRS, NCRS Texas, Corvette Legends of Texas
Bill, how does it work when you manually shift it?
Both solenoids are on in 1st, one goes off for 2nd, both off for 3rd, and one back on for 4th. So, both solenoids work if you have 1st.

A "speed" shift from 1st to 4th would sound like a speed sensor signal boo-boo, but is there any way to put a scanner on your system? If so, check the "output" speed sensor signal. If there is a reading of more than a couple hundred rpms while just rollin along in neutral,(less than 1-2 mph), then you may have the wrong reluctor gear for the trans/ECM combo. What type of gearset does this unit have? Is it a plastic gear drive w/electric sensor, or does it have a metal reluctor gear on the trans, with a magnetic speed sensor?


Joel Adams
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'76 Concersion - Tranny trouble

Posted: 10/27/06 3:24pm Message 3 of 13
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Franklin Square, NY - USA
Joined: 4/18/2004
Posts: 116
Vette(s): ' 76 Customized .Mid year rear window ( ' 67 style ). It has an '80 nose,'80 rear bumper , and a 76 hood . Also , I squeezed in a ' 94 Vette LT1 . Paint is a custom mixed BLACK with RED PEARL mixed in !
Well, took a bit of time for the shop to do anything, but, this is what I found out .
After changing the speed sensor, we now have all 4 gears . Not cheering yet, as we still have a first gear gremlin. First is still shifting too fast . You're in second in a blink of an eye . I watched it on the dyno . The dyno was reading 24mph, and the scanner was reading 60mph !!
As for the reluctor gear, I'm told it's metal . The rear gears are 3:06 ( 3:08 ) ? I'm much better at Mopar gear sets than Vettes , sorry .
It's possible that there is a problem with the computer . Will have to make a call to Street and Performance to see what they say. They reprogrammed it .



'76 Concersion - Tranny trouble

Posted: 10/27/06 4:00pm Message 4 of 13
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Duncanville, TX - USA
Joined: 11/8/2003
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Vette(s): #1-1974 L-48 4spd Cp Med Red Metallic/Black deluxe int w/AC/tilt/tele./p/w-p/b/ Am-Fm/map light National/Regional/Chapter NCRS "Top Flight" #2-1985 Bright Red/Carmine Cp.L-98/auto Member: NCRS, NCRS Texas, Corvette Legends of Texas
Bill, make sure you let the computer programer know what rear ratio you have(3.08), as well as how many "teeth" are on the reluctor gear. There are a couple of different gears. You may have a gear with way too many teeth, and the 'puter thinks it's moving much faster than it actually is.


Joel Adams
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'76 Concersion - Tranny trouble

Posted: 10/27/06 4:21pm Message 5 of 13
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Franklin Square, NY - USA
Joined: 4/18/2004
Posts: 116
Vette(s): ' 76 Customized .Mid year rear window ( ' 67 style ). It has an '80 nose,'80 rear bumper , and a 76 hood . Also , I squeezed in a ' 94 Vette LT1 . Paint is a custom mixed BLACK with RED PEARL mixed in !
Originally , I had only told S&P what gear ratio I had, not anything about the reluctor gear . They needed that and tire roll out to program the computer .
Anything inside the tranny is what was there when I bought it from the bone yard, along with the LT1.
Knowing nothing about that reluctor gear, how would I know which is right ? Confused



'76 Concersion - Tranny trouble

Posted: 10/27/06 8:10pm Message 6 of 13
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Duncanville, TX - USA
Joined: 11/8/2003
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Vette(s): #1-1974 L-48 4spd Cp Med Red Metallic/Black deluxe int w/AC/tilt/tele./p/w-p/b/ Am-Fm/map light National/Regional/Chapter NCRS "Top Flight" #2-1985 Bright Red/Carmine Cp.L-98/auto Member: NCRS, NCRS Texas, Corvette Legends of Texas
That's a good question!
If the folks at S&P know what car gave it's heart & soul up for transplant into your car, they should be able to determine what reluctor tooth count it had. I don't know that for sure, but I would think they would have that info.
In order to see the reluctor and count the teeth you need to remove the speed sensor from the tailhousing, and look into the hole there. you can see the reluctor from there. Then mark one of the teeth, and turn the driveshaft while counting the teeth. It could be 19, 20, 21, etc. Another thing is getting the correct sensor for the (rear)gear ratio. If your car has a different ratio than the donor, the speed signal will be skewed. I know on the earlier electronic speedos, there were different sensors, and you had to order one that matched the rear-end ratio. Those were gear-driven sensors, tho.
I'll check something at the shop tommorrow, and see if/how many different sensors were used for the '94 cars. May git lucky...may not.
S&P should be able to resolve the issue, tho.


Joel Adams
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'76 Concersion - Tranny trouble

Posted: 10/27/06 8:19pm Message 7 of 13
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Franklin Square, NY - USA
Joined: 4/18/2004
Posts: 116
Vette(s): ' 76 Customized .Mid year rear window ( ' 67 style ). It has an '80 nose,'80 rear bumper , and a 76 hood . Also , I squeezed in a ' 94 Vette LT1 . Paint is a custom mixed BLACK with RED PEARL mixed in !
Of all the damn things to hold it back from the road ! Sheesh .
I didn't get the engine/tranny from S&P . They were bought from a Vette bone yard in PA . So, there goes any hope of knowing exactly is in it . No idea what rear was in the donor . All I know is it was a '94 with the LT1 and 4L60E .
Since the speedo in the '76 is mechanical , how much of a difference would it make in the correct speed reading ? Or, does it not make a difference as it should be correct right from the tranny .
Seems S&P are in for a long call .



'76 Concersion - Tranny trouble

Posted: 10/27/06 8:30pm Message 8 of 13
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Duncanville, TX - USA
Joined: 11/8/2003
Posts: 20219
Vette(s): #1-1974 L-48 4spd Cp Med Red Metallic/Black deluxe int w/AC/tilt/tele./p/w-p/b/ Am-Fm/map light National/Regional/Chapter NCRS "Top Flight" #2-1985 Bright Red/Carmine Cp.L-98/auto Member: NCRS, NCRS Texas, Corvette Legends of Texas
I'm guessing your speedo doesn't work anyway, right? It wouldn't make any difference in the signal to the ECM anyway. The signal to the ECM comes directly from the output speed sensor on the trans. Only if the drivetrain came out of a pick-up would there be a problem. The trucks used a "DRAC"(Digital Ratio) module to convert the AC signal from the sensor to a digital sig. to the ECM.


Joel Adams
C3VR Lifetime Member #56    

My Link


(click for Texas-sized view!)
             NCRS

"Money can't buy happiness -- but somehow it's more comforting to cry in a CORVETTE than in a Kia"

'76 Concersion - Tranny trouble

Posted: 10/27/06 8:49pm Message 9 of 13
Former Member
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Franklin Square, NY - USA
Joined: 4/18/2004
Posts: 116
Vette(s): ' 76 Customized .Mid year rear window ( ' 67 style ). It has an '80 nose,'80 rear bumper , and a 76 hood . Also , I squeezed in a ' 94 Vette LT1 . Paint is a custom mixed BLACK with RED PEARL mixed in !

Not so . My speedo does work. If I remember correctly, there is a converter that S&P sells for electric to manual speedos . I've bought  so many custom parts, I really can't keep track without looking up the invoices ! Censored .

Thanks for all the help. Any info is much appreciated . It may finally see the street , before the first snow ! Unhappy.



'76 Concersion - Tranny trouble

Posted: 10/27/06 9:23pm Message 10 of 13
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Duncanville, TX - USA
Joined: 11/8/2003
Posts: 20219
Vette(s): #1-1974 L-48 4spd Cp Med Red Metallic/Black deluxe int w/AC/tilt/tele./p/w-p/b/ Am-Fm/map light National/Regional/Chapter NCRS "Top Flight" #2-1985 Bright Red/Carmine Cp.L-98/auto Member: NCRS, NCRS Texas, Corvette Legends of Texas

Hmmm...in order for your cable-drive speedo to work, you would have to have a gear driven speedo, with an electronic adaptor for the ECM signal. Entirely possible on the trans, as the hole for the sensor is the same size as for a regular gear-drive set-up.
I must be missing something here, if they told you the trans has a metal reluctor gear on it. Don't suppose you could get a pic of it, eh?


Joel Adams
C3VR Lifetime Member #56    

My Link


(click for Texas-sized view!)
             NCRS

"Money can't buy happiness -- but somehow it's more comforting to cry in a CORVETTE than in a Kia"

in Forum: C3 Driveline Components


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