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Topic: clutch pedal free play issue

in Forum: C3 Driveline Components


clutch pedal free play issue

Posted: 7/7/12 11:57pm Message 1 of 13
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Vancouver, WA - USA
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Vette(s): 1976 Silver/Firethorn. L48, 4spd. Original 2 bolt, vortec heads, 9.4:1 CR, Speed Pro Cam: 224/224@0.050, 112 LSA, Eagle Steel Crank.
So today I got the clutch linkage all put together and tried 'er out.  Seems like things are working OK except the pedal won't come back all the way on it's own - it stops at the edge of it's free play, after the clutch fingers are fully relaxed, I'd guess.  It's easy to pull the pedal back with a foot, but something doesn't seem right.  Yes, I do have a new pedal return spring installed that goes between the Z-bar and the firewall steering column bracket.  And I followed the AIM instructions for setting pedal free play.  The total amount of play seems about right, just won't take it up on it's own.  I don't remember having this problem before I took everything apart.  



 

1976 Silver/Firethorn.  L48, 4spd.  Original 2 bolt, vortec heads, 9.4:1 CR, Speed Pro Cam: 224/224@0.050, 112 LSA, Eagle Steel Crank.
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Re: clutch pedal free play issue

Posted: 7/8/12 8:36am Message 2 of 13
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  • Disconnect the clutch return spring at the cross shaft. Push the clutch lever until the pedal is against the rubber stop under the dash. Loosen the two shaft locknuts and push the shaft until the throwout bearing just touches the pressure plate spring. Tighten the top locknut toward the swivel until the distance between it and the swivel is 0.4". Tighten the bottom locknut against the swivel. The pedal free travel should not be 1-1/2".



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    Re: clutch pedal free play issue

    Posted: 7/8/12 10:12am Message 3 of 13
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    Belvidere, IL - USA
    Joined: 10/24/2004
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    Vette(s): 1977 Black T-Top ZZ4 5Sp 16in Wheels
    I cant remember fully, cause I went with Hyd. clutch. But isn't there two spriings, big one on clutch arm and smaller spring on peddle rod!


    Re: clutch pedal free play issue

    Posted: 7/8/12 10:18am Message 4 of 13
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    Vancouver, WA - USA
    Joined: 8/25/2005
    Posts: 869
    Vette(s): 1976 Silver/Firethorn. L48, 4spd. Original 2 bolt, vortec heads, 9.4:1 CR, Speed Pro Cam: 224/224@0.050, 112 LSA, Eagle Steel Crank.
    Larry: yep, that's the procedure I used, same as in the AIM for my '76.

    Dick: I don't see a spring on the peddle rod in the AIM.  I also don't see where one would attach, but it certainly would help with this issue.

    I replaced the rubber boot that goes around the rod at the firewall.  It appears to be bunching up, possibly causing the problem.  I think I'll take it off and see.  Maybe some grease on the rod will make it work better.  




     

    1976 Silver/Firethorn.  L48, 4spd.  Original 2 bolt, vortec heads, 9.4:1 CR, Speed Pro Cam: 224/224@0.050, 112 LSA, Eagle Steel Crank.

    Re: clutch pedal free play issue

    Posted: 7/8/12 7:05pm Message 5 of 13
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    Duncanville, TX - USA
    Joined: 11/8/2003
    Posts: 20218
    Vette(s): #1-1974 L-48 4spd Cp Med Red Metallic/Black deluxe int w/AC/tilt/tele./p/w-p/b/ Am-Fm/map light National/Regional/Chapter NCRS "Top Flight" #2-1985 Bright Red/Carmine Cp.L-98/auto Member: NCRS, NCRS Texas, Corvette Legends of Texas
    Dave, there is an "over center" spring on the pedal assembly for the clutch pedal. It's job is to pull the pedal all the way back up, AND, once the pedal gets about halfway down, it helps push down on it...to try to save your leg muscles. It is a pretty dang stout spring, too. Does your pedal just flop around if you take it loose from the Z bar? It shouldn't. It should stay all the way up. If you were to push down on it with the linkage disconnected, it would slam down on the floor after about 1/2the way down...and usually mash a few fingers in the process. I may have a pic/diagram somewhere...


    Joel Adams
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    Re: clutch pedal free play issue

    Posted: 7/8/12 11:09pm Message 6 of 13
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    Vancouver, WA - USA
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    Vette(s): 1976 Silver/Firethorn. L48, 4spd. Original 2 bolt, vortec heads, 9.4:1 CR, Speed Pro Cam: 224/224@0.050, 112 LSA, Eagle Steel Crank.
    Ruh Roh.  It's floppy if the pedal rod is disconnected from the Z-bar along with the firewall to z-bar spring.  No spring action at all.  The engine has been out for the last year and the clutch pedal has just sat at the floor that whole time.  Guess it's not supposed to be that way.....

    So this return spring... is it on the cross shaft at the top of the pedal that is shared with the brake pedal?  There is an orange spring up there that is obviously doing its job for the brake pedal - no problems with return on that one.  I still can't for the life of me find a sheet in the AIM that shows this.  There are several sheets detailing various parts of the clutch linkage, including some that show the pedal, but none that detail its installation or call out the part numbers (not even for the pedal itself).  I thought I'd find it in the brake section, but the diagram on that sheet is for an automatic car and doesn't detail anything on the clutch pedal.  But, I haven't looked through every page of that crazy book, maybe I'm just missing it.   (I swear there are some major things missing in that book)

    Dare I ask how fun Wacko it will be to replace this puppy?




     

    1976 Silver/Firethorn.  L48, 4spd.  Original 2 bolt, vortec heads, 9.4:1 CR, Speed Pro Cam: 224/224@0.050, 112 LSA, Eagle Steel Crank.

    Re: clutch pedal free play issue

    Posted: 7/9/12 4:36am Message 7 of 13
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    Duncanville, TX - USA
    Joined: 11/8/2003
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    Vette(s): #1-1974 L-48 4spd Cp Med Red Metallic/Black deluxe int w/AC/tilt/tele./p/w-p/b/ Am-Fm/map light National/Regional/Chapter NCRS "Top Flight" #2-1985 Bright Red/Carmine Cp.L-98/auto Member: NCRS, NCRS Texas, Corvette Legends of Texas
    Embarrassed
    Well..my memory has failed me...AGAIN...Embarrassed I should really start checkin stuff before I speak..
    There is no over-center spring on the Shark cars...only the one pull back spring you mentioned, from the Z-bar to the firewall bracket. The earlier cars, with the Borg-Beck style clutch pressure plate needed the over-center spring...the later, diaphragm type pressure plates did not need it. My apologies....
    So...if your pedal has too much free play, check to see that the rubber bumper/stop is still on the pedal bracket. It is there to keep the pedal from banging back against the bracket when you let up on the clutch. If it is missing, or damaged, it will give you more freeplay than normal. Other than that, it is just a matter of adjusting the freeplay out of it. This is where the different height fork pivot balls come into play, as well as different height throw-out bearings...



    Joel Adams
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    Re: clutch pedal free play issue

    Posted: 7/9/12 7:53am Message 8 of 13
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    Vancouver, WA - USA
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    Vette(s): 1976 Silver/Firethorn. L48, 4spd. Original 2 bolt, vortec heads, 9.4:1 CR, Speed Pro Cam: 224/224@0.050, 112 LSA, Eagle Steel Crank.
    Thanks, Joel.  Glad we figured that out!  I was doing some more exploring yesterday, it seems as if the new boot on the fork/bell housing is too stiff for the z-bar return spring to overcome it.  The rubber bumper on the pedal bracket is still there and a gentle pull on the pedal is enough to bring it up against it, but it won't ride there on its own.  What about a stiffer spring for the Z-bar return?  Or maybe an additional, smaller spring inside the main spring?  

    Also, I have to admit I didn't take your advice on the fork pivot ball.  I put in the new one which is slightly longer (~1/8") than the one I took out.  I'm still convinced it should be the correct one for my car, but you never know with these things.  Perhaps the fork and pivot were installed as a matched set, from the factory or later on.  BUT, I am unsure if the longer pivot is helping or hurting in this case.  I need to get under there and study that geometry a little more.  I really don't want to replace it as it looks like bell housing and tranny need to be removed.  If I can figure out a way to get that pedal to return all the way it should be OK.  I hope.




     

    1976 Silver/Firethorn.  L48, 4spd.  Original 2 bolt, vortec heads, 9.4:1 CR, Speed Pro Cam: 224/224@0.050, 112 LSA, Eagle Steel Crank.

    Re: clutch pedal free play issue

    Posted: 7/9/12 10:27am Message 9 of 13
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    Vette(s): #1-1974 L-48 4spd Cp Med Red Metallic/Black deluxe int w/AC/tilt/tele./p/w-p/b/ Am-Fm/map light National/Regional/Chapter NCRS "Top Flight" #2-1985 Bright Red/Carmine Cp.L-98/auto Member: NCRS, NCRS Texas, Corvette Legends of Texas
    Actually, Dave....I think the longer pivot ball would make the linkage "tighter" than the short ball would....you're moving the fork closer to the Z-bar, basically. Not much, be some, and it does effect the geometry some.
    The return spring on the Z-bar to the firewall bracket should be enough to pull the pedal back up...unless the thing is stretched, for some reason...and the constant up/down over the years might certainly do it. You don't really want to start adding more springs to it...unless you have really strong leg muscles! LOL
    I think my '74 pedal has maybe about 1/4" of "flop" right at the top, that the spring doesn't pull all the way back up, but...I've never looked at my rubber bumper up there, either...it may have a groove in it from the pedal bouncing off of it over the years...who knows? 1/4" is acceptable, as far as I am concerned, but your's sounds like it has quite a bit more than that. Even with all of the lower linkage disconnected(to the fork), that spring should be able to pull the pedal all the way up....something is just weird here.(besides ME)


    Joel Adams
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    Re: clutch pedal free play issue

    Posted: 7/9/12 11:43pm Message 10 of 13
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    Vancouver, WA - USA
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    Vette(s): 1976 Silver/Firethorn. L48, 4spd. Original 2 bolt, vortec heads, 9.4:1 CR, Speed Pro Cam: 224/224@0.050, 112 LSA, Eagle Steel Crank.
    I'll agree something is weird, and I don't think it's you!  I did some more investigation tonight and here's what I know:

    1. Pedal and return spring connected to Z-bar, but Z-bar NOT connected to fork: pedal works as expected, returns all the way to the top every time.

    2. Return spring is brand new and it matches the old one, so that's not the problem.

    3. Fork just sitting there with nothing attached: it has a natural place it wants to ride.  A gentle push towards the front (moving TOB back) causes a bit more movement (1/4 to 1/2"), but it will always spring back to that natural spot.  I think it's the new rubber boot on the fork that's causing the spring action and I also think that little bit of movement I get when I push on it corresponds exactly to the missing return of the pedal.  

    4. I can set the adjustment rod so the holes in the fork exactly line up with the hole in the rod that attaches to it with a dowel pin (pin will just drop in without pushing on fork at all).  This causes the pedal to be at full return in that natural state.  Problem solved?  I don't think so.  I'm concerned that there is not enough free play when I do this, 1/2" or so at the pedal pad.  

    Possible solutions:

    1. Stronger or doubled up return spring.  I know this is probably not the right way to go, but it will not take much more force to produce full return.  Perhaps I can just play with some different combos to make it work.  Pedal effort is really not bad now, I could probably live with a little more.  (not double, though)

    2. Possibly modify the fork boot by cutting a bit more relief in it so there is not so much resistance.  

    3. For some weird reason, removing one of the "anti-rattle" springs (the back one) on the rod between Z-bar and fork helps things out - get a better return when I do that.  Maybe I just live with a rattling rod, but I'm not sure this will completely solve the problem either and it would bug me cause it's not right.

    Others?

    Sorry for the long Censored post!




     

    1976 Silver/Firethorn.  L48, 4spd.  Original 2 bolt, vortec heads, 9.4:1 CR, Speed Pro Cam: 224/224@0.050, 112 LSA, Eagle Steel Crank.

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