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Topic: gears and lost acceleration

in Forum: C3 Driveline Components


gears and lost acceleration

Posted: 9/1/06 12:30am Message 1 of 19
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Bismarck, ND - USA
Joined: 10/1/2004
Posts: 380
Vette(s): 1970 stingray, t-top, mulsanne blue with black interior, 406 ci with 444 hp, racing suspension, hooker headers/sidepipes - SOLD :(

so I was talking with a friend the other day...seems that he advised me against running 4.11s with the 700R4 transmission.  says I'm losing acceleration potential because the motor is winding up too fast, and that the car would be faster if I went to something lower, like 3.73s.  he also said that the high gearing is very likely the reason why I don't feel near as much "pinned to the seat" force when I punch the throttle in the corvette, as I do when I hit the throttle in the GTP, even though the corvette has more power.

what do you folks think about this?




Mike

My old Stingray...sure do miss it:


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gears and lost acceleration

Posted: 9/1/06 3:05am Message 2 of 19
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Victor, NY - USA
Joined: 7/12/2004
Posts: 6842
Vette(s): 2004 Commemorative Edition Coupe, Auto w/HUD. 13K miles in 2015. Sold 1982 Red Coupe
I think it makes sense.
Do you loose traction at the tires?
Bottom line is all the motion through the drive line has to be transferred to the pavement.


 
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gears and lost acceleration

Posted: 9/1/06 4:51am Message 3 of 19
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Duncanville, TX - USA
Joined: 11/8/2003
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Vette(s): #1-1974 L-48 4spd Cp Med Red Metallic/Black deluxe int w/AC/tilt/tele./p/w-p/b/ Am-Fm/map light National/Regional/Chapter NCRS "Top Flight" #2-1985 Bright Red/Carmine Cp.L-98/auto Member: NCRS, NCRS Texas, Corvette Legends of Texas
I'm no rocket scientist(but I do play one on TV), but that goes against the laws of physics, and everything I've learned. Lower gear ratios will give you more seat of the pants acceleration, regardless of the trans ratio. If your engine runs out of steam too soon, going to a higher ratio will only make it run out of steam a little later, road-speed wise.
When I first started building the Pinto I used to have, I installed the rear end first. With a 4.88 gear, and the original FOUR CYL, I could take anyone at the stoplights, for at least 60 feet! After that, I was done. With a small block and an automatic(3spd), it ran mid-12s all day long. Not bad for a street car in the late 70s/early 80s.


Joel Adams
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gears and lost acceleration

Posted: 9/1/06 6:45am Message 4 of 19
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Flanders, NJ - USA
Joined: 1/27/2004
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Vette(s): 1982 Black, ZZ4, Hooker Side Pipes, 3.55 Rear, Rebuilt & upgraded 700R4, All new suspension, brakes, & new Charcoal interior.
Adam is right  . The high rear end ratio will give you better acceleration & more torque at the wheels. The problem with the 700R4 trans is 1st gear is 3.08:1 and with a 4.11:1 rear you will be at red line in 1st in a heartbeat, but it will pin you to the seat. It won't be very street friendly with a 4.11 rear and it will lower your top speed a little and will give you worse gas milage. A 3.73:1 rear is a better choice. The 700R4 has the over drive which helps the milage at highway speeds. I have a 3.55:1 rear in mine and it goes like heck in 1st gear.


 

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gears and lost acceleration

Posted: 9/1/06 1:10pm Message 5 of 19
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The Woodlands, TX - USA
Joined: 1/27/2006
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Vette(s): 1969 Coupe, Red, L88 Tribute

     There are many variables that come into play with gear ratios.  I had a 69 Camaro with a mildly modified motor & TH350.  It ran its quickest in the 1/4 mile with 3.73:1 gears.  With 4.11:1 gears the motor was reving past its power curve and was flattening out before I got to the end of the 1/4 mile.  To get the maximum performance from your engine and acceleration, you need a set of gears that keeps your engine within its ideal power band.  You can go too low or too high.  Also keep in mind your tire selection.  This will change your final ratio as well.  I am running 3.70:1 with a 4 spd manual in my current 69 vette.  If I went to 29 inch tall tires, then I would consider a 4.11:1 ratio.  In my 76 vette, I had 3.55:1 ratio, modified 350, TH350 with a 2200 rpm stall.  That car was faster than my 69.

Steve




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gears and lost acceleration

Posted: 9/1/06 2:03pm Message 6 of 19
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Bismarck, ND - USA
Joined: 10/1/2004
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Vette(s): 1970 stingray, t-top, mulsanne blue with black interior, 406 ci with 444 hp, racing suspension, hooker headers/sidepipes - SOLD :(

[QUOTE=Adams' Apple]I'm no rocket scientist(but I do play one on TV), but that goes against the laws of physics, and everything I've learned. Lower gear ratios will give you more seat of the pants acceleration, regardless of the trans ratio. If your engine runs out of steam too soon, going to a higher ratio will only make it run out of steam a little later, road-speed wise.
When I first started building the Pinto I used to have, I installed the rear end first. With a 4.88 gear, and the original FOUR CYL, I could take anyone at the stoplights, for at least 60 feet! After that, I was done. With a small block and an automatic(3spd), it ran mid-12s all day long. Not bad for a street car in the late 70s/early 80s. [/QUOTE]

so...what do you think the difference is between the feeling of acceleration, that seat of the pants feeling, between the corvette and the GTP.




Mike

My old Stingray...sure do miss it:


(click image to see a bigger version)

gears and lost acceleration

Posted: 9/1/06 2:03pm Message 7 of 19
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Bismarck, ND - USA
Joined: 10/1/2004
Posts: 380
Vette(s): 1970 stingray, t-top, mulsanne blue with black interior, 406 ci with 444 hp, racing suspension, hooker headers/sidepipes - SOLD :(

editing this, cause it seems my last post went in twice.

Stingray406SB38961.5868865741


Mike

My old Stingray...sure do miss it:


(click image to see a bigger version)

gears and lost acceleration

Posted: 9/1/06 3:31pm Message 8 of 19
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The Woodlands, TX - USA
Joined: 1/27/2006
Posts: 67
Vette(s): 1969 Coupe, Red, L88 Tribute

Torque is the seat of the pants feel that you are looking for.  The GTP may be producing more torque at low rpm than your 406.  When we start building higher rpm horsepower motors, we loose low rpm torque (1500 - 2800 rpm range).  I don't know anything about your motor, but since you know the RWHP, do you have the torque curve as well?

Steve




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gears and lost acceleration

Posted: 9/1/06 6:27pm Message 9 of 19
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Duncanville, TX - USA
Joined: 11/8/2003
Posts: 20219
Vette(s): #1-1974 L-48 4spd Cp Med Red Metallic/Black deluxe int w/AC/tilt/tele./p/w-p/b/ Am-Fm/map light National/Regional/Chapter NCRS "Top Flight" #2-1985 Bright Red/Carmine Cp.L-98/auto Member: NCRS, NCRS Texas, Corvette Legends of Texas
Steve is right...there is probably a difference in where the most torque is produced(rpm wise) between the two vehicles. You can't really compare a hi-strung, high rpm performer with a torker engine. Some of the big blocks made way more HP, but the LT-1s would kick their booties in the end.
If you have an engine that starts producing it's major torque output at 2500-3000rpm, it's not gonna get off the line very quickly, without the aid of a lower gear ratio.
I would have to agree with the others, here, and swap the 4.11s out to 3.70s, or 3.55s.


Joel Adams
C3VR Lifetime Member #56    

My Link


(click for Texas-sized view!)
             NCRS

"Money can't buy happiness -- but somehow it's more comforting to cry in a CORVETTE than in a Kia"

gears and lost acceleration

Posted: 9/1/06 7:22pm Message 10 of 19
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North Hills, CA - USA
Joined: 6/12/2003
Posts: 515
Vette(s): 1972 T-Top

  There is  a good explanation of this in the September issue of Car Craft under the "Whats your problem?" column. It addresses why the taller gear does not work, especially for pulling at higher speeds.

                                         Reid   '72 T-top





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in Forum: C3 Driveline Components


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