Topic: rear end decoding
in Forum: C3 Driveline Components
Lifetime MemberModerator
Thanks Adams' Apple. This is another indicator that my car was a 427 car from the factory. Maybe you can answer another question. If I was to put a 427 back in the car, even though I cannot document it, would it still be considered a numbers matching car?
Thanks,
[/QUOTE]The term "Numbers Matching" is highly mis-used, these days. You can absolutely put an engine in the car that has all of the "correct" numbers, but it still wouldn't be factory installed, which is the term I prefer to use. There are many people out there that make a living building "nums match" cars, and just as many getting taken when they buy them as such. My personal standard is, "If Zora didn't put it in there, it ain't original"!
I say, if you want a BB in your car, just go for it, and don't worry about the numbers, because it won't be "correct" anyway.(unless you stumble upon the original engine) You can still have just as much fun burnin 'em down with another BB in it's place!
Joel Adams
C3VR Lifetime Member #56 
My Link 
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"Money can't buy happiness -- but somehow it's more comforting to cry in a CORVETTE than in a Kia"
I had one person tell me it was a warranty replacement. The confusing part for me is the 2 and the 69 otherwise I would think it is a 3.36:1 1970 Posi built at the warren plant on April 19
If anyone can help decipher it, I would appreciate it...
Lifetime MemberModerator
A "warranty replacement" diff would probably NOT have added letters to the code, unlike an engine, which they usually DID add identifying coding to the stamp pad....at the engine assembly plant. They were usually stamped with a "CE" code, or similar. I'll see if I can find anything on it, tho....now I'm curious.
Joel Adams
C3VR Lifetime Member #56
My Link
(click for Texas-sized view!) NCRS
"Money can't buy happiness -- but somehow it's more comforting to cry in a CORVETTE than in a Kia"
Lifetime MemberModerator
LATE '69, and '70 diffs had 3 letter codes. CAM is a 3.36 posi for a small block car.The "69" in the code is the year.
Joel Adams
C3VR Lifetime Member #56
My Link
(click for Texas-sized view!) NCRS
"Money can't buy happiness -- but somehow it's more comforting to cry in a CORVETTE than in a Kia"
Lifetime MemberModerator
Joel Adams
C3VR Lifetime Member #56
My Link
(click for Texas-sized view!) NCRS
"Money can't buy happiness -- but somehow it's more comforting to cry in a CORVETTE than in a Kia"
Lifetime MemberSimple answer: No. The engine would have to be the exact one that came out of the car, which means the VIN on the engine block stamp pad must match the VIN of your car. It's very rare, but there have been cases of present owners contacting past owners, asking lots of questions and then locating the original motor in someone's garage. However, those are usually cases where the original motor was less desirable and a more desirable motor was inserted. I can't imagine why anyone would replace a 427 unless the block was badly damaged, althought people do things you wouldn't expect all the time.
With that said, if you are into originality, you can install a 427 cast within 6 months of the build date of your car and have a "correct" engine for your car, according to the NCRS guys, although it still does not carry the higher value of the original motor. Also, on a 40 year old car, there are probably far more components than just the engine that have been replaced with "service replacement" parts that make them no longer original - things like brake calipers, alternators, starters, water pumps, etc. If the majority is not truly original, I'm not so sure having a non-original but correct motor in your car woud add much value. Of course, the smile you'd have when you hit the gas would be priceless ;-)
I suggest that before seriously considering that kind of investment, and 427 blocks, heads, etc., are very expensive, that you get on the technical discussion board at ncrs.org and start asking questions. Or better yet, start by searching their archives, as this exact question comes up all the time. Not only can they give you EVERY possible clue to check to verify the original configuration of a '68 as a 427 or not, they can tell you exactly the date codes needed on all parts to be considered a "correct" car (not #s matching) and the likely investment vs. increase in the car's value.
BTW, love the Vette! Even though I have an '81, if I ever add a 2nd one, it would be a 68 or 69.
I was under the impression that restamping a vin on a correct engine was considered restoration.
Lifetime MemberModerator
RE-stamping, on the original engine would be considered a restoration.
There are two trains of thought on engine stamping...One is that you can stamp a new VIN on a "correct" engine if it is done to where it is not noticeable, AND as long as it is the SAME type engine the vehicle had from the factory. Others think that ANY non-factory stamp is a forgery. The issue has to do with the incredible amount of forgeries taking place these days. It is possible to "build" a low horse small block, no option car into a fully optioned 435 big block...that's the problem. That car now gets sold as a sweet big block car, for a sweet big block price, and the new owner gets to enjoy the loss when it is found out what they bought is a forgery.
Now.....if you have a small block car, with a blown engine, and you find a complete, correctly dated small block of the same hp/trans, stamping the correct VIN isn't frowned on as much, depending on if you try to convince someone it is "numbers matching" or not.
The first time I had my '74 judged at NCRS, some of the judges thought the engine stamp wasn't "original", or correct...."looks fishy". REALLY?!? Why the hell would anyone fake an L-48 engined car????? The issue was, they are so used to seeing the factory broach marks on older engines that were not as detailed on the later engines from the '70s.
It's a tangled web we weave...
|UPDATED|2/2/2015 10:48:34 AM (AZT)|/UPDATED|
Joel Adams
C3VR Lifetime Member #56
My Link
(click for Texas-sized view!) NCRS
"Money can't buy happiness -- but somehow it's more comforting to cry in a CORVETTE than in a Kia"
Lifetime MemberRE-stamping, on the original engine would be considered a restoration.
There are two trains of thought on engine stamping...One is that you can stamp a new VIN on a "correct" engine if it is done to where it is not noticeable, AND as long as it is the SAME type engine the vehicle had from the factory. Others think that ANY non-factory stamp is a forgery. The issue has to do with the incredible amount of forgeries taking place these days. It is possible to "build" a low horse small block, no option car into a fully optioned 435 big block...that's the problem. That car now gets sold as a sweet big block car, for a sweet big block price, and the new owner gets to enjoy the loss when it is found out what they bought is a forgery.
Now.....if you have a small block car, with a blown engine, and you find a complete, correctly dated small block of the same hp/trans, stamping the correct VIN isn't frowned on as much, depending on if you try to convince someone it is "numbers matching" or not.
The first time I had my '74 judged at NCRS, some of the judges thought the engine stamp wasn't "original", or correct...."looks fishy". REALLY?!? Why the hell would anyone fake an L-48 engined car????? The issue was, they are so used to seeing the factory broach marks on older engines that were not as detailed on the later engines from the '70s.
It's a tangled web we weave...
yeah that is consistent withn my understanding of the restamping issue. if you had a blown engine in your l-36 and found another l-36 engine with correct casting numbers and date stamps that you could then sand the vin off and restamp it and it would be restoring it to original condition. if you take that same car and put an l-71 engine in the car with the correct date codes and restamped the vin, you have created a forgery.