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Topic: Had to get towed tonight

in Forum: C3 Electrical

Had to get towed tonight

Posted: 10/22/13 10:38pm Message 1 of 21
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Vancouver, WA - USA
Joined: 8/25/2005
Posts: 869
Vette(s): 1976 Silver/Firethorn. L48, 4spd. Original 2 bolt, vortec heads, 9.4:1 CR, Speed Pro Cam: 224/224@0.050, 112 LSA, Eagle Steel Crank.
Left me stranded just a half mile from my house tonight.  I was driving under power and suddenly she just quit on me.  Tried to get it started again while coasting, no go.  Fortunately had enough momentum to get her into a grocery store parking lot.  Pretty sure it is a no spark situation.  I can see fuel squirting into the primaries and the cranking is very smooth and consistent, not catching at all.  This happened once years ago and I got it towed to my house.  It was the HEI module that time.  Since the symptoms were so similar tonight I took a chance and bought a cheap module from the parts store down the street (even had to borrow a 1/4" socket from them to get the rotor off) and replaced it i the parking lot, under the light of the sodium lamps.  Still no go.  I decided the parking lot repair was not going to happen, so I got it towed home.  All I've done so far is put a voltmeter on the primary wire to the dist and noted that it was 11.4 volts.  Is that low?  I'm assuming even if it is low, it should still be enough to fire the coil?  Other than that, I'm thinking the next two things to look at are the coil and the pickup mechanism.  The coil is only about a year old, but the pickup is original to this dist.  

The dist is a cheap HEI unit.  You see them in the Summit and Jegs catalogs, no-name.  I would not buy one of those again.  Regardless of what the problem here is, I think it may be time for a better HEI or possibly rebuilding my original.  (the pickup failed on the original).  Suggestions?  I might be able to get a Performance DUI from a neighbor at a fair price, we'll see.  Anyone know if the stock ignition shielding will work with a Performance unit?  The cap seems to be taller than the stock versions.  

Only the second tow in 12+ years, not too bad, but still wish I could have got it running in that parking lot!




 

1976 Silver/Firethorn.  L48, 4spd.  Original 2 bolt, vortec heads, 9.4:1 CR, Speed Pro Cam: 224/224@0.050, 112 LSA, Eagle Steel Crank.
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Re: Had to get towed tonight

Posted: 10/23/13 9:50am Message 2 of 21
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Duncanville, TX - USA
Joined: 11/8/2003
Posts: 20214
Vette(s): #1-1974 L-48 4spd Cp Med Red Metallic/Black deluxe int w/AC/tilt/tele./p/w-p/b/ Am-Fm/map light National/Regional/Chapter NCRS "Top Flight" #2-1985 Bright Red/Carmine Cp.L-98/auto Member: NCRS, NCRS Texas, Corvette Legends of Texas
Pull a plug wire and check for spark before going any further.
The "Batt" wire on the dist cap connector should have battery voltage anytime the key is on, AND while cranking. Be sure to check voltage while cranking. You might have it there with the key on, but might loose it while cranking. Also, check it several time while turning the key on/off, and see that it gives the same reading each time.
Coils normally don't fail instantly like that, but it could happen.
The pole piece(pickup) can certainly fail like that, with no/little warning. Check the wires going to it form the module...if they look weird, or you can see bare wires, that's your problem.
Can't recommend any particular aftermarket dist., BUT...if you find the pole piece is bad, replacing it, and the coil, along with the new module you already replaced, would give you basically a new dist anyway. The mechanical part of the dist is just hardware....unless it's broken physically, there's really not much to fail on that.
Sorry about the breakdown, but glad you were close to home, and not 1000 miles away! Thumbs Up



Joel Adams
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Re: Had to get towed tonight

Posted: 10/23/13 6:00pm Message 3 of 21
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Vancouver, WA - USA
Joined: 8/25/2005
Posts: 869
Vette(s): 1976 Silver/Firethorn. L48, 4spd. Original 2 bolt, vortec heads, 9.4:1 CR, Speed Pro Cam: 224/224@0.050, 112 LSA, Eagle Steel Crank.
Thanks, Joel.  After having the batt on trickle charge all night I'm up to 11.6 with key on Run and it goes down to about 9.5 while it's cranking.  I pulled #1 plug wire at the plug and leaned the boot against the stearing gear box so I could see a spark while my wife cranked - nothing.  (embarrassed to ask, but what is the correct, safe way to check?  I've been shocked a few times doing it wrong).  So pretty sure it's a no-spark issue.  And I think it has to be the coil or the pickup or something else electrical in the dist.  I'm going to get the coil tested at the parts store and if it comes up good, I'm just going to get a new dist.  

If I can't get the friend's DUI (Davis Unified Ignition - very good ratings from users on the net) I think I am going to go with a GMPP HEI out of Jegs or Summit.  This is what they sell with some of the crate motors and it sounds like it is made by MSD.  Any experience?  




 

1976 Silver/Firethorn.  L48, 4spd.  Original 2 bolt, vortec heads, 9.4:1 CR, Speed Pro Cam: 224/224@0.050, 112 LSA, Eagle Steel Crank.

Re: Had to get towed tonight

Posted: 10/23/13 7:10pm Message 4 of 21
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Canada
Joined: 6/19/2012
Posts: 230
Vette(s): 1975 Corvette 383 stroker w/Patriot 190 heads, Eagle stroker kit, Comp 279TH7 cam, DUI distributor, Edelbrock 7116 intake, Edelbrock 1806 carb, Hedman Hedders, TH400 w/TCI Breakaway 2400 stall, Transgo 1-2 shift kit.
Sorry to hear of your troubles Dave. I can attest that getting towed home is not a happy experience. I bought a DUI this summer but have not used it yet. They are very well made and a great company to deal with. I think it will fit under the shielding. Look forward to learning from your misfortune if you don't mind.


 
Build Date: May 7, 1975. 383 w/267 RWHP/310 RWTQ

Re: Had to get towed tonight

Posted: 10/23/13 8:03pm Message 5 of 21
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Woodland, WA - USA
Joined: 10/14/2003
Posts: 1171
Vette(s): 1977 T-Top,350,Auto Black Ruby Pearl,Steeroids R&P conversion
Hey Dave  I have a distributor you can use to test, if you what to illuminate that as the problem.
 
You can get at harbor freight a spark plug tester for a few bucks. it just goes in line between the wire an the spark plug and the center will glow letting you now you have spark I have one you can use if needed.
  
That voltage seems low do you have another battery that you could swap in?


|UPDATED|10/23/2013 8:03:52 PM (AZT)|/UPDATED|



Re: Had to get towed tonight

Posted: 10/23/13 9:48pm Message 6 of 21
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Vancouver, WA - USA
Joined: 8/25/2005
Posts: 869
Vette(s): 1976 Silver/Firethorn. L48, 4spd. Original 2 bolt, vortec heads, 9.4:1 CR, Speed Pro Cam: 224/224@0.050, 112 LSA, Eagle Steel Crank.
Thanks guys!  Greg, I'll definitely keep you posted.  Lesson #1 I've already posted: don't buy the knock-off Chinese HEI's.  Even if this one is not the problem, it's still not a very well made part.  I've always had concerns about things like the connectors on this unit - just not quality stuff.  Sounds like you've made it past that lesson by buying the DUI - it does seem like a very good unit based on stuff I've read.  And I think you're right that it will fit under the shielding, their FAQs say it has the same dims as stock.  How come you haven't installed yet?  

Bob, thanks.  I may be taking you up on the loaner distributor.  I'm also concerned about the voltage on the primary wire, especially the drop down to less than 10 when cranking.  Could a bad engine ground cause that?  Other thoughts?  




 

1976 Silver/Firethorn.  L48, 4spd.  Original 2 bolt, vortec heads, 9.4:1 CR, Speed Pro Cam: 224/224@0.050, 112 LSA, Eagle Steel Crank.

Re: Had to get towed tonight

Posted: 10/24/13 6:17am Message 7 of 21
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Hot Springs, AR - USA
Joined: 4/24/2004
Posts: 3236
Vette(s): 69 Conv #'s match 427, TKO-600/.64, 3.36HD-Posi, HT, T/T, PS, PB, PW, SP, Leather, Comp XE264HR & Roller Rockers & Lifters, Air-Gap RPM intake, Holley St Av 770 VS, MSD 6AL+Dist+Blaster SS, K&N, Jet-Hot Hooker Side-Pipes, Steeroids, Al Rad, Spal Fans
daveo76 said: Thanks, Joel.  After having the batt on trickle charge all night I'm up to 11.6 with key on Run and it goes down to about 9.5 while it's cranking.  I pulled #1 plug wire at the plug and leaned the boot against the stearing gear box so I could see a spark while my wife cranked - nothing.  (embarrassed to ask, but what is the correct, safe way to check?  I've been shocked a few times doing it wrong).  So pretty sure it's a no-spark issue.  And I think it has to be the coil or the pickup or something else electrical in the dist.  I'm going to get the coil tested at the parts store and if it comes up good, I'm just going to get a new dist.  

If I can't get the friend's DUI (Davis Unified Ignition - very good ratings from users on the net) I think I am going to go with a GMPP HEI out of Jegs or Summit.  This is what they sell with some of the crate motors and it sounds like it is made by MSD.  Any experience?  



I always use a #2phillips scredriver with insulated handle.  I insert into the plug boot and then hold the handle of screwdriver to get the metal a 1'4" or less from a good ground
 
and antique car ownership is why I own a flat bed trailer with a winch.  ive had to tow way too many times :-(


|UPDATED|10/24/2013 6:17:51 AM (AZT)|/UPDATED|



Re: Had to get towed tonight

Posted: 10/24/13 9:16am Message 8 of 21
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Duncanville, TX - USA
Joined: 11/8/2003
Posts: 20214
Vette(s): #1-1974 L-48 4spd Cp Med Red Metallic/Black deluxe int w/AC/tilt/tele./p/w-p/b/ Am-Fm/map light National/Regional/Chapter NCRS "Top Flight" #2-1985 Bright Red/Carmine Cp.L-98/auto Member: NCRS, NCRS Texas, Corvette Legends of Texas
daveo76 said:  After having the batt on trickle charge all night I'm up to 11.6 with key on Run and it goes down to about 9.5 while it's cranking.

A battery that has been charged all night should have at LEAST 12.5 volts. Voltage under around 10v while cranking leans to the battery not being good. Doubt it is a ground problem, but you can check anyway. Also doubt the low voltage is causing it to die, and not run now, but the battery does need to be tested/replaced. Ouch
On the other hand...low voltage and electronics is a bad combo. If you can get another car up to it, and some jumper cables, you might give that a quick shot to see if the low voltage is keeping it from starting...


|UPDATED|10/24/2013 9:16:06 AM (AZT)|/UPDATED|



Joel Adams
C3VR Lifetime Member #56    

My Link


(click for Texas-sized view!)
             NCRS

"Money can't buy happiness -- but somehow it's more comforting to cry in a CORVETTE than in a Kia"

Re: Had to get towed tonight

Posted: 10/24/13 9:30am Message 9 of 21
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Germansville, PA - USA
Joined: 1/28/2010
Posts: 859
Vette(s): 1974 Coupe 358ci 4 speed Black w/Medium Saddle interior w/79 custom leather seats. . 1999 C5 Convertible, 6 speed, Atomic orange, Oak interior.
I used this company for my distributor on my 74. Seems to be a very well built unit and lifetime guarantees, and the best part very reasonable priced.


   

DanT

Re: Had to get towed tonight

Posted: 10/24/13 11:07am Message 10 of 21
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Woodland, WA - USA
Joined: 10/14/2003
Posts: 1171
Vette(s): 1977 T-Top,350,Auto Black Ruby Pearl,Steeroids R&P conversion
Just thinking. If your Alt is not charging the battery properly, and the battery is now bad. if you where driving with running lights or lights the voltage would drop to a point the car will die. the battery can have a bad cell. once again at idle the alt may not be producing the voltage needed to keep it running. when you try to start it is it cranking slow?


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