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Topic: Hot start blues

in Forum: C3 Electrical


Hot start blues

Posted: 5/3/05 1:32pm Message 1 of 40
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Canada
Joined: 8/6/2004
Posts: 533
Vette(s): Coupe 74 - 454 Drive it like you stole it!
I am having a problem starting when hot.  The car starts well when cold, but there's not click, no nothing when I start hot; have to wait 30 minutes (not too fun when stopping on long trip to fill-up...).
 
I have read the thread Here with a similar problem and I was thinking about trying the insulation (heat shield).  I found 2; Ecklers part # 33895 @ 34.99 and Zip part # MU-2229 @ 17.95.
 
Is there any differences between both, except 17.04$ ? 
Did anybody tried it with good/bad results ?
 
How about a 30$ starter rebuild kit if the heat shield doesnt work?
Would I need a 150$ tool to rebuild a 120$ starter ?
 
This is for a 74 big block.
 
Thanks!



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Hot start blues

Posted: 5/3/05 2:36pm Message 2 of 40
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SOUTHWICK, MA - USA
Joined: 6/26/2003
Posts: 336
Vette(s): 1975, L-48 coupe, 4-speed, light mods

I would not use the insulated wrap. It can cause some strange moisture related issues. I would suggest eckler's part number 26229, it is what I intend to purchase.

You can also get really good rebuilt starters for much less than $120 bucks. Call around. I bought one at Auto Zone, and returned the core for more money off.




Glenn's Bright Blue 75 T-Top
L48, 4 Speed, Dual Exhaust

Hot start blues

Posted: 5/3/05 2:51pm Message 3 of 40
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Newark, DE - USA
Joined: 7/26/2004
Posts: 468
Vette(s): 1968 Conv, 454HO,500HP-600TQ, TKO-600,3:70 HD rear,hotrod air, custom paint & suspension,1973 Ruby Red,T-top, 383 Stroker, TK)-500,frame off restro, 1967 Dodge Coronet, 340 stroker to 406, Dana 60

Had the same problem with my BB ...bought one of those mini starter and haven't had a problem since.

Alan




                                               

Hot start blues

Posted: 5/3/05 6:45pm Message 4 of 40
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Duncanville, TX - USA
Joined: 11/8/2003
Posts: 20214
Vette(s): #1-1974 L-48 4spd Cp Med Red Metallic/Black deluxe int w/AC/tilt/tele./p/w-p/b/ Am-Fm/map light National/Regional/Chapter NCRS "Top Flight" #2-1985 Bright Red/Carmine Cp.L-98/auto Member: NCRS, NCRS Texas, Corvette Legends of Texas
I wouldn't use the wrap-around shield, either. It actually holds the heat in, once the starter gets hot. Make sure you have the factory heat shield on the starter, first. It's a shaped sheet metal piece that bolts onto the rear of the starter, and covers the side that is closest to the exhaust. Big blocks were notorious for having a problem when hot. Before condeming the starter, I'd suggest replacing the solenoid. It is what actually creates the no-start condition, 90% of the time. They are only about $15-20. But be sure you have the metal type heat shield on the starter, whether you replace the starter or not. It will save you a lot of headaches in the end. You could also wire up a remote solenoid, under the hood, that would eliminate this problem 100%. This set-up uses a "brand 'F'" starter solenoid, and I've NEVER seen a big block fail to start with it(for this problem, anyway!). If you want to keep the car 100% correct, this wouldn't do, but it is another way to fix it for good.


Joel Adams
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Hot start blues

Posted: 5/3/05 6:56pm Message 5 of 40
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SHELBYVILLE, TN - USA
Joined: 7/5/2002
Posts: 3942
Vette(s): 1976 L48 auto

1978 L82 4speed

1994 LT1 6speed

Well, more than likely it is the solenoid failing under the heat, however, I once had similar problems years ago with the 76 vett, cruise around and stop somewhere, with nothing when trying to start up again.  I could "cross" the solenoid and turn it over, turned out, it was the neutral/safety switch.  When it got hot, the contacts would not mate(after getting a new one, i took the old one apart to take a peek under its hood,  was tarnished up pretty bad, and the dielectric grease in it was kinda nasty too, probably from being baked over 20 years)... neither in park or in nuetral(its an automatic)..but letting it sit for a little while it would come back to life...  sooo not sure which tranny you have.  Just throwing out a possibility there, slim possibility,  but something to think about. 

Good luck




StingrayJim
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Hot start blues

Posted: 5/4/05 10:19am Message 6 of 40
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Canada
Joined: 8/6/2004
Posts: 533
Vette(s): Coupe 74 - 454 Drive it like you stole it!
Thanks for the replies.
 
I will take another good look at it this weekend and make sure that I
have the heat shield in there (the metal plate one).  If not, I will start by getting one and try it out.
 
From everything I've read so far; there's 3 school of thoughts:
1) heat sheild and that's it
2) replace/rebuild selenoid
3) replace the whole starter
 
At first, it seems that 2 & 3 would fix it right away; BUT I still have a heat problem which will eventually burn another one, so I'm thinking that fixing the heat problem is the way to go and everything else will fall in place.
 
The car is almost all original (which means she's really not a trailer queen) so the heat problem is not only affecting the starter, it is excessive all over.
 
I might make it the next project; insulation overhaul!
 
Again, thanks for your replies.  I'll post an update on the shield once I test it.
 



Hot start blues

Posted: 5/4/05 10:58am Message 7 of 40
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Suffern, NY - USA
Joined: 3/16/2005
Posts: 227
Vette(s): 1976 restored,new interior,custom paint(purple),body kit,rebuilt engine,trans,upgraded sound system

The 76 corvette I just purchased had a starter problem according to

the previous owner. he went thru 3 starters caused by the heat from the headers after they were installed. Solved problem also by

installing a heat shield on the starter

 




Hot start blues

Posted: 5/12/05 9:33pm Message 8 of 40
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Canada
Joined: 8/6/2004
Posts: 533
Vette(s): Coupe 74 - 454 Drive it like you stole it!
Okay, got the heat shield... kind of!
 
I bought the metal plate one; not the insulating wrap.
 
Looks simple; 3 bolts; take the selenoid bolt out and round robin with the other two.  Only problem : can't get there!  Do I really have to take half the engine apart to get there ?
 
Any recommendations about the approach on a 74 big block ?
The service manual is not helping on this one.
I admit, I only looked at it from the top. I can barely fit on hand thru, but then I can't get any light (left hand has the flashlight).
Do I really have to go from under ?
 
After 30 minutes; I abandoned and took her for a ride instead.
Guess what; I had to stay an extra 20 minutes at my friends house since she wouldn't start again!  Should have got the job done instead of going for a ride.
 



Hot start blues

Posted: 5/13/05 4:30am Message 9 of 40
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Grand Blanc, MI - USA
Joined: 8/7/2002
Posts: 544
Vette(s): 1979, 350sb, as my kids affectionately call it "shit brown" Corvette purchased in 1996. 84,000+ miles. Not a show car, but I love her just the same.

In my experience of watching older brothers and their friends work on cars when I was younger (since I have very little mechanical ability of my own), they always did starter work from underneath.

Buy a creeper (if you don't already have one), crack the doors open a bit, release the tension on the T-tops (if you have them), jack that puppy up in the air and slide on under there.  Just remember, starters are heavy!

Good luck!




Hot start blues

Posted: 5/13/05 4:46am Message 10 of 40
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Duncanville, TX - USA
Joined: 11/8/2003
Posts: 20214
Vette(s): #1-1974 L-48 4spd Cp Med Red Metallic/Black deluxe int w/AC/tilt/tele./p/w-p/b/ Am-Fm/map light National/Regional/Chapter NCRS "Top Flight" #2-1985 Bright Red/Carmine Cp.L-98/auto Member: NCRS, NCRS Texas, Corvette Legends of Texas
Sorry........it has to be done from underneath. Make sure you have good jackstands to put under the car to keep it from falling on top of you if something bad happens . Disconnect the batt. before pulling the starter off, too. Good luck, we're all pulling for you!

ps...If you pull the starter off to do this, I would highly recommend you replace the solenoid while you're there. Adams' Apple38485.2018171296


Joel Adams
C3VR Lifetime Member #56    

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"Money can't buy happiness -- but somehow it's more comforting to cry in a CORVETTE than in a Kia"

in Forum: C3 Electrical


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