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Topic: Hot start blues

in Forum: C3 Electrical


Hot start blues

Posted: 5/13/05 6:30am Message 11 of 40
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Canada
Joined: 8/6/2004
Posts: 533
Vette(s): Coupe 74 - 454 Drive it like you stole it!
That's what I thought.
 
I think there's a way to add the plate without removing the starter.
 
If anybody ask for me tonight, I'll be in the garage!
It will do this and replace all weather stripping.
 
I have the stands. I know it holds good, but for some reason I always get nervous when I crawl under.
 
I'll let you guys know how it went.
 
Thanks!



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Hot start blues

Posted: 5/16/05 12:06pm Message 12 of 40
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Canada
Joined: 8/6/2004
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Vette(s): Coupe 74 - 454 Drive it like you stole it!
Update ;
 
I crawled under the hood this weekend to install the heat shield.
Turns out the factory one was already there (couldn't see it from the top the week before).
 
I have a few issues : the overall exterior condition (especially of the selenoid) is not too good and with the headers, it is really tight over there.
 
So as suggested, since I am going to take the starter out completely (I figured I couldn't do it through round-robin of the 3 bolts), replace the solenoid, replace the heat shield (the original one is paper thin) and replace the spark plugs while being so close.
 
This will have to wait another 2 weeks, since I have a pool tournament next weekend.  In the meantime, it gives me 2 weeks to find all the parts I need.
 
Here's my round of questions :
Any recommendations other than replacing the solenoid while being there ? I didn't look at my manuals yet, but am I going to find to worn out gaskets or parts that could be re-greased and such in that area of the starter ? 
 
Stringrayjim, what do you mean by "crossing" the solenoid ?
Knotacare, what is a mini-starter ?
Adam, I did a quick search on parts websites, but couldn't find any remote solenoid ? Do you know any places ?
What specs should I look for other than voltage if non-Delco ?
 



Hot start blues

Posted: 5/16/05 12:34pm Message 13 of 40
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Newark, DE - USA
Joined: 7/26/2004
Posts: 468
Vette(s): 1968 Conv, 454HO,500HP-600TQ, TKO-600,3:70 HD rear,hotrod air, custom paint & suspension,1973 Ruby Red,T-top, 383 Stroker, TK)-500,frame off restro, 1967 Dodge Coronet, 340 stroker to 406, Dana 60

 

 

JEG'S Mini Starters


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Product images may differ from actual product appearance.
Mini Starter With Extra Power!

Hitachi Style Starters
1.9-HP Hitachi style-motor with 3.7:1 gear ratio, full ball bearings, 12 lbs. Power to crank up to 13:1 compression ratio engines. 90 Amp draw.

Heavy Duty Hitachi Starter
Heavy duty Long Body Hitachi Style 2.0kw starter. It has the same features as our 555-10021, such as a 3.7:1 gear ratio and full ball bearings, but with more power to crank over the monster 16:1 compression engines. It will clear all oversized kick-out oil pans, small and big block Chevy's with inline bolt patterns. A lightweight starter weighing only 12lbs and designed for 153 and 168 tooth flywheels. Mounting hardware and shims included. Choice of chrome or natural/black finish. Aluminum adapter with 6 adjustable mounting positions. Shims & bolts included.

The mini starter is smaller & usually used to start high compression engines, but stands up to the heat better & because of the smaller size allows for better air flow. Most places have them I just used Jegs as an example, but I did install this one on my car...no more heat problems...as I had the same problem you're experiencing

Alan




                                               

Hot start blues

Posted: 5/16/05 1:44pm Message 14 of 40
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SOUTHWICK, MA - USA
Joined: 6/26/2003
Posts: 336
Vette(s): 1975, L-48 coupe, 4-speed, light mods

[QUOTE=Adams' Apple]I wouldn't use the wrap-around shield, either. It actually holds the heat in, once the starter gets hot. Make sure you have the factory heat shield on the starter, first. It's a shaped sheet metal piece that bolts onto the rear of the starter, and covers the side that is closest to the exhaust. Big blocks were notorious for having a problem when hot. Before condeming the starter, I'd suggest replacing the solenoid. It is what actually creates the no-start condition, 90% of the time. They are only about $15-20. But be sure you have the metal type heat shield on the starter, whether you replace the starter or not. It will save you a lot of headaches in the end. You could also wire up a remote solenoid, under the hood, that would eliminate this problem 100%. This set-up uses a "brand 'F'" starter solenoid, and I've NEVER seen a big block fail to start with it(for this problem, anyway!). If you want to keep the car 100% correct, this wouldn't do, but it is another way to fix it for good. [/QUOTE]

Can anyone give some more information on the factory heat shield? I found the two pieces (I think) in a box from the previous owner but I don't know how they fit back in the correct position. One is a curved piece the holes for mounting, and the other is a flat piece with a bend in it. Anyone know? Thanks!




Glenn's Bright Blue 75 T-Top
L48, 4 Speed, Dual Exhaust

Hot start blues

Posted: 5/16/05 1:57pm Message 15 of 40
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SOUTHWICK, MA - USA
Joined: 6/26/2003
Posts: 336
Vette(s): 1975, L-48 coupe, 4-speed, light mods

I just found the part that I have in my box. Here is a picture of it on ebay. This is the part that I trying to figure out how it attaches to the starter:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem& ;category=10076&item=4550159276&rd=1&ssPageName= WDVW




Glenn's Bright Blue 75 T-Top
L48, 4 Speed, Dual Exhaust

Hot start blues

Posted: 5/16/05 5:09pm Message 16 of 40
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CUYAHOGA FALLS, OH - USA
Joined: 12/2/2003
Posts: 6424
Vette(s): 1975 C3 Red, T-Tops, Black Interior. All I need is time and money! Getting there!

The voltages should be the same with the original style or the mini starter.

Crossing the solenoid means jumping between the battery cable connector and the small solenoid activation terminal.  This will cause the starter to operate.  Just the same as supplying power to the small terminal with the purple wire.  When you turn the key, you supply power to the purple wire.

kstyer38488.716712963


Hot start blues

Posted: 5/16/05 6:42pm Message 17 of 40
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Frederick, MD - USA
Joined: 2/20/2003
Posts: 548
Vette(s): Frederick County Corvette Club (Maryland) Tan 64 365 Hp Conv 4 sp Red 72 4 sp Conv ..running a '68 327 Blue 76 Coupe L 48 4 sp White 79 Coupe L 82 auto Silver 98 Conv, 6 sp 35th Anniv '88 vette

walk into the parts department of your local Chevy dealer and ask for
a Selinoid spring part number (AcDelco) 1958679....  shopuld cost you about 5 bucks...

Then Just pull the original spring out of your starter and insert the new spring... END OF PROBLEM....    
Honest I have been running this spring in my 72 76 & 79  for about 10 years now and never had the problem once since I replaced the spring...
my 72 and 79 and my 68 BB Chevelle all had the hot start problem UNTIL I changed out the spring... (looks and feels like the original..but it is weaker...hence required much less elecrticity to compress ...

One think I do know however....IF I got stuck like at a friends house I would just ask for a large glass of water...walk out to the car and pour it over the starter.....usually worked...if not I just used a second glass of water... I think 3 glasses is the most it ever took to cool down the started enough so the engine would fire up...

BTW...the Spring number came from a Sprint Car "Crew Cheif" at our local race track... SHE...was good looking and could turn a mean wrench...  honestly  SHE knew her cars....

Bob Griffiths


Bob
64,72 & 98 Corvette Ragtops
76 & 79 & qa 88 ANC Corvette Coupes

Click on any image for larger view!

Hot start blues

Posted: 5/16/05 7:17pm Message 18 of 40
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CUYAHOGA FALLS, OH - USA
Joined: 12/2/2003
Posts: 6424
Vette(s): 1975 C3 Red, T-Tops, Black Interior. All I need is time and money! Getting there!

Now I'm embarrased!    I forgot all about that spring.  Yes, it does help quite a lot.   

It's been a lot of years from the last time I heard about that, or installed one.




Hot start blues

Posted: 5/17/05 7:39am Message 19 of 40
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Canada
Joined: 8/6/2004
Posts: 533
Vette(s): Coupe 74 - 454 Drive it like you stole it!
Thanks for the part number.  I will most likely try that first instead of replacing the whole thing.  If it ain't broken, don't replace it! If you can't fix it; duck it!
 
I will also clean all the connections and maybe test the voltage like I read on another thread.
 
Didn't think about pooring water on it (until I fix it).  Actually, I always carry water with me in case of a breakdown.  You neven know how long you could be bakin' in the sun, and the FL sun is not forgiven.



Hot start blues

Posted: 5/20/05 7:48am Message 20 of 40
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Joined: 8/6/2004
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Vette(s): Coupe 74 - 454 Drive it like you stole it!
I drove in front of ACDelco the other night, but they were already closed.  There was an Autozone across the street, so I stop by to see if they would have that spring.
 
They didn't have it, but I picked up the whole solenoid switch for 12.99$. The brand name is Wells.
 
I am planning to install it tonight and replace the heat shield at the same time (the original one is really thin compare to the Mr. Gasket one I just bought.)
 
Hope it fits, because I think the rounded edge of the original leaves space for the headers.
 
Talking about headers, here's my question; I will most likely have to remove them to get to the starter. I will also take the wheel off to get some elbow space.
 
I have never took the headers off, am I looking for trouble ?  Can I get the whole thing done in 3 hours ?
 
In one of my book, it says that in extreme case, I would have to raise the engine  to get to the starter.  I will not do that just for a starter solenoid.  I think my plan B is to get a remote solenoid, mount it away from the heat and leave the old one in place.
 
Any thought ?
 
Thanks!



in Forum: C3 Electrical


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