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Topic: No crank or click

in Forum: C3 Electrical

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No crank or click (1/25)
9/8/18 10:08pm

Johnny605
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Tuttle, OK - USA

Vette(s):
1982 Corvette Collector Edition

Joined: 12/15/2015
Posts: 18

I have an 1982 CE and after driving it, will turn the car off. Then about five minutes later, try the start the car again, nothing happens. All the courtsey lights work, radio operates, and so does windows. Was at Auto Zone, I had them check my battery and it was at 80% charge. Try to jump the car, nothing. They install a new battery with the same results. After 15 to 20 minuets, try one more time and this time the care started. We still had the new battery, then put my battery back in, and the car started right up. Everything I have read, points to either the neutral safety switch or the starter interupt relay. Dont want to start replacing parts without knowing what is causing the issue. Any ideas where I need to start looking.

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Re: No crank or click (2/25)
9/8/18 10:49pm

73shark
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Overland Park, KS - USA

Vette(s):
1973 Orange Metallic Coupe (orig owner), L82, 4 spd (WR), PS, (A/C & PW (I installed from wrecked 73)), leather, AM/FM Stereo, ran with '65 FI unit earlier & will again some day. 2023 Accelerate Yellow HTC Stingray

Joined: 7/9/2003
Posts: 908

How about the starter itself? Has the voltage at the starter and solenoid been checked with the key in the start position when it doesn't start?

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1973 L-82 4 spd

Re: No crank or click (3/25)
9/9/18 10:56am

Johnny605
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Tuttle, OK - USA

Vette(s):
1982 Corvette Collector Edition

Joined: 12/15/2015
Posts: 18

I�m not sure that the starter or solenoid is the problem. Either they work or they don�t. Check the wiring to both and they all look good.

Re: No crank or click (4/25)
9/9/18 11:36am

Adams' Apple

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Duncanville, TX - USA

Vette(s):
#1-1974 L-48 4spd Cp Med Red Metallic/Black deluxe int w/AC/tilt/tele./p/w-p/b/ Am-Fm/map light National/Regional/Chapter NCRS "Top Flight" #2-1985 Bright Red/Carmine Cp.L-98/auto Member: NCRS, NCRS Texas, Corvette Legends of Texas

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Johnny605 said: Either they work or they don�t.

Not necessarily....a solenoid can work on one start and not the next. Try tapping on the starter while some holds the key to "Start". If it cranks over, your problem is solenoid or starter related.

To test for power, you need to use a multi-meter, or test light. Hook up to the "S" terminal on the solenoid, which will be the purple wire closest to the engine block. With the key in the "Start" position, you should see battery voltage on that wire, whether it cranks or not. If you do NOT see battery voltage there, then you can go to the neutral safety(or clutch) switch and do the same test for battery voltage(purple/white wire) while in the "Start" position. If no batt voltage AT the NSS, then you have an ignition switch(or wiring) issue, or......since this is an '82, you also have the theft deterrent system to deal with, which is another ball game altogether.

|UPDATED|9/9/2018 11:36:42 AM (AZT)|/UPDATED|

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Re: No crank or click (5/25)
9/9/18 7:38pm

Johnny605
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Tuttle, OK - USA

Vette(s):
1982 Corvette Collector Edition

Joined: 12/15/2015
Posts: 18

I�m little confused, the problem only occurs when the engine is hot. If I start the engine when its cold, it starts perfectly. Can the starter or solenoid fail when the engine is hot?

Re: No crank or click (6/25)
9/9/18 8:22pm

Yes.

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1973 L-82 4 spd

Re: No crank or click (7/25)
9/9/18 8:44pm

F4Gary
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Grapevine, TX - USA

Vette(s):
1972 LT-1 convertible with factory air. 2017 Black Rose Grand Sport convertible.

Joined: 8/26/2006
Posts: 1509

Johnny605 said: I�m little confused, the problem only occurs when the engine is hot. If I start the engine when its cold, it starts perfectly. Can the starter or solenoid fail when the engine is hot?

Yes, my '78 did that. Once it cooled down some it would start. Had to replace the solenoid.

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Re: No crank or click (8/25)
9/9/18 9:59pm

Johnny605
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Tuttle, OK - USA

Vette(s):
1982 Corvette Collector Edition

Joined: 12/15/2015
Posts: 18

Thanks, looks like I will be pulling off the starter/solenoid and have it tested.

Re: No crank or click (9/25)
9/9/18 10:17pm

Before you do that, do the tests that Adams Apple proposed. Besides if the starter and/or solenoid only fail when hot, then chances are they will pass testing st room temp. Then you'll have to go back and do the testing.

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1973 L-82 4 spd

Re: No crank or click (10/25)
9/21/18 2:24am

Kentvetteuk
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France

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1978 L48 Auto. Red with Oyster Leather interior. Owned since 1990.

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Johnny, not sure how you've got on with this, I was away and unable to post.

But, it definitely sounds like a problem that seems more common over in the UK than in the US strangely. When the starter/solenoid get hot, the resistance increases and starting doesn't happen. As said, a test will not reproduce the same scenario, so is not conclusive.

I had this issue about 15 years ago and a starter rebuild solved it. But, it began to re-occur recently. I pulled the starter and thoroughly cleaned the solenoid inside and out. But I also went over EVRY wiring connection to the starter, from the battery onwards, cleaning and tightening them all. Once everything was refitted it was test time - the starter nearly turned the whole car over!

So, I'd start with a clean of everything, and see what happens after that.

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Re: No crank or click (11/25)
9/21/18 6:41am

manchestershark

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Equinunk, PA - USA

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1972 conv, 4-speed, 350, 200hp, numbers match, rally wheels, war bonnett yellow w/white top. good condition, nice driver.

Joined: 10/31/2007
Posts: 2465

"IF" you have headers, and no heat protection from the headers to starter, you need to add a shield to the starter. It's pretty common when hot engines with headers put to much heat on starter, and it doesn't work till cool. Big blocks are VERY susceptible to this .

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Re: No crank or click (12/25)
9/21/18 5:53pm

danascar
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Germansville, PA - USA

Vette(s):
1974 Coupe 358ci 4 speed Black w/Medium Saddle interior w/79 custom leather seats. . 1999 C5 Convertible, 6 speed, Atomic orange, Oak interior.

Joined: 1/28/2010
Posts: 859

I've had both problems on different cars over the years and I always find

that the heat soaked starter from headers will try weakly to start like a dead/failing battery but would start when cold, starter shield/cover solves that problem. A total no attempt to start, turn over, no click symptom was always a bad solenoid. Hammer on solenoid usually works for s hort time until solenoid fails completely.

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DanT

Re: No crank or click (13/25)
9/21/18 6:49pm

Johnny605
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Tuttle, OK - USA

Vette(s):
1982 Corvette Collector Edition

Joined: 12/15/2015
Posts: 18

Replace the starter/solenoid and the engine starts much. Still having the same problem, but need to wait a shorter time before the car starts again. I have order a heat shield and will install once it arrives.

|UPDATED|9/21/2018 6:49:11 PM (AZT)|/UPDATED|

Re: No crank or click (14/25)
9/21/18 7:19pm

Hope the heat shield works. I also went to a high torque starter, that may also help.

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DanT

Re: No crank or click (15/25)
9/22/18 1:46am

art-corvette
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Posts: 242

danascar said:

I've had both problems on different cars over the years and I always find

i had exact the same with my 66 mustang. no cranking anymore when engine was hot, had to wait 20 min and car started again. the starter has worn out cause of the heat impact of the headers all those years... a heat shield didn't help anymore, had to replace the starter and problem was solved..

arthur

Re: No crank or click (16/25)
9/22/18 12:40pm

nosal1
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Dunedin, FL - USA

Vette(s):
1980 Corvette Torch Red with Gold metallic 370HP/350 CU.IN.Turbo 350 w/shift kit.Originally CA.Car with 305 CU.IN.

Joined: 3/21/2006
Posts: 262

You might consider using a Ford solenoid system which I have on my Vette/truck.The thing you have to be sure about is the grounding of the solenoid as we don't have an abundance of metal under hood in Vettes..I have this set up for 5 years on "lame" starters on both my Vette and '72 C10 truck..With this set up the staret never has 12 volt to it until you try and start the vehicle,meaning the heavy gauge wire/solenoid is cold and not hot from headers.. nosa1 Sal C

Re: No crank or click (17/25)
9/26/18 1:13am

Kentvetteuk
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France

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1978 L48 Auto. Red with Oyster Leather interior. Owned since 1990.

Joined: 8/21/2002
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Johnny605 said: Replace the starter/solenoid and the engine starts much. Still having the same problem, but need to wait a shorter time before the car starts again. I have order a heat shield and will install once it arrives.

Did you go right through all the electrical connections? Ensure everything is clean, battery terminals included, earth straps etc. A new starter and solenoid shouldn't give issues....

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Re: No crank or click (18/25)
10/10/18 2:27am

StingrayHawaii
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Ellijay, GA - USA

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1996 Collector Edition Coupe, LT4, 6 spd 1982 Red on Red, 60k miles 1970 Convert, Maroon, Lt Saddle, 383 4 spd conv with ac 2016 Z-51 yellow Convert, 7 speed (Sold) 1974 Avanti w/Chevy 350 - 4L60 trans 2020 Polaris Slingshot GT LE

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Had the same problem, have power but not even a click, replaced starter and solenoid and new wiring harness to starter. Same problem. Got a new anti theft relay and wile I was installing it I just unplugged it and tried to start the car. Acted just like my problem. Installed the new relay and it started right up. Unplugged the alarm module and will see if that was shutting off my relay! Update, relay was not the problem finally got it hot and same no click issue. Checked the purple wire going to starter and it is getting current when I hit the starter on the key. So it is the solenoid ! New starter and solenoid, with heat shield and wrapped the header pipe. Looks like the remote solenoid or high torque starter is the next step. Already replaced the wiring harness to the starter so I know that is all good.

|UPDATED|10/10/2018 2:27:56 AM (AZT)|/UPDATED|

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Re: No crank or click (19/25)
9/28/18 9:48am

Before one starts to wholesale replace parts, one needs to check for voltage at the starter and solenoid, and at the other points upstream to see where they're losing voltage if it isn't present at the starter. Otherwise you're just throwing parts at the problem. This could be a very expensive way to troubleshoot a problem. One can get a digital VOM at Harbor Freight for less than $10. A small investment that will pay itself off many times over.

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1973 L-82 4 spd

Re: No crank or click (20/25)
10/1/18 5:02am

vettejack

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Titusville, FL - USA

Vette(s):
1977 Coupe (White), 2006 Convertible (Victory Red). NCM Life Member #2221.

Joined: 12/19/2007
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This happened to me in my 1982. For weeks/months I would venture out for a drive, maybe stopping later on for a drink, or to fill up. All done, ready to go, boom...no start. Waited about 30 minutes every time, then it would start.

My mechanic and I figured out that with the '82 having it's original starter still in place, it may have just simply timed itself out and was that worn. We found that the body of the starter would heat up so bad (resting very close to the dual exhaust pipes) that the housing/casing would expand, which meant the armature actually would be pulled away from the housing/casing, hence, no grounding...which meant no starting until the mechanics of all this mumbo-jumbo would have to be allowed to cool.

In the end, I had a modern, hi-torque, starter installed, with a heat shield installed in/around the starter which increased the heat tolerance between the starter and the exhaust pipe. This all occurred a little over 5 years ago...never a fail to start since then.

On a completely different note...my '82 is for sale...gotta make room for the '77!

|UPDATED|10/1/2018 5:02:45 AM (AZT)|/UPDATED|

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Re: No crank or click (21/25)
10/10/18 4:14am

Adams' Apple

StingrayHawaii said: Checked the purple wire going to starter and it is getting current when I hit the starter on the key. So it is the solenoid ! New starter and solenoid, with heat shield and wrapped the header pipe.

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Re: No crank or click (22/25)
10/27/18 5:59pm

Johnny605
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Tuttle, OK - USA

Vette(s):
1982 Corvette Collector Edition

Joined: 12/15/2015
Posts: 18

Good new, finally was able to solve the problem. First I replace the starer/solenoid, wrap the exhaust pipe near the starter. When for a test drive and upon my return turn off the engine, waited for about 5 minutes, the engine started. Decided to waited additional 5 minutes to make sure the first time was not fluke. To my surprise, the engine started again. Looks like I can get on the road again without worrying if the car is going to start. Thanks to everyone for their input.

Re: No crank or click (23/25)
11/3/18 2:11pm

Waiting is not a good test. Waiting gives the starter time to cool. Test it immediately after shutting it off. If it still starts good you are golden.

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DanT

Re: No crank or click (24/25)
11/9/18 9:11am

Do it both ways, mine starts right up when hot but if it sets a few min the heat builds up and no start. New wires, new starter and solenoid and wrapped pipe with starter heat shield. Going to shield the wire and add additional exhaust wrap below the starter to see if that fixes it. I think the 82s and others with catalytic converters build a lot of heat right after they shut off and sit for a few min. Wait another 20-30 min and it starts right up!

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Re: No crank or click (25/25)
11/9/18 9:28am

Kentvetteuk
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France

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1978 L48 Auto. Red with Oyster Leather interior. Owned since 1990.

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Johnny605 said: Good new, finally was able to solve the problem. First I replace the starer/solenoid, wrap the exhaust pipe near the starter. When for a test drive and upon my return turn off the engine, waited for about 5 minutes, the engine started. Decided to waited additional 5 minutes to make sure the first time was not fluke. To my surprise, the engine started again. Looks like I can get on the road again without worrying if the car is going to start. Thanks to everyone for their input.

Glad you seem to have got the problem sorted Johnny.

The acid test will be to take the car on a decent run - 50 miles or so, then stop for fuel (that would be "gas" to you, "petrol" for me!). The time to fill seems to be the perfect time required to let the problem manifest itself - ask me how I know! If it re-starts when you're ready to leave the station, you've fixed it!

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Stephen J Irons
Corvette Club France

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Corvettes of Southern California
NCM Family Member
Red Corvettes Have More Fun!

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