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Topic: Question about my brakes

in Forum: C3 Engines, Driveline and Handling


Question about my brakes

Posted: 2/20/07 10:07am Message 1 of 13
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Savannah, GA - USA
Joined: 1/20/2005
Posts: 936
Vette(s): 1982CE,32,000 and counting. (fast!!) 1981 Vette, black on black. ZZ4 (quick!!)
I'm getting better at my brake knowladge but still have a lot to learn.My question is.I had to replace both of my rear calipers because one of them was messed up so you couldn't get the inside bleeder to work.Now about every two months I need to bleed the brakes again.I'm not losing any fluid but how can that be.If air can get into the system wouldn't you think that fluid could come out of the same place?


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Question about my brakes

Posted: 2/20/07 10:32am Message 2 of 13
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Victor, NY - USA
Joined: 7/12/2004
Posts: 6842
Vette(s): 2004 Commemorative Edition Coupe, Auto w/HUD. 13K miles in 2015. Sold 1982 Red Coupe
Did you check the runout of the rotors?
Factory spec. is .005" TIR, but I would shoot for .003"
The runout causes the pistons to pump and somehow the air gets in.
And because the air is compressible, you may not see any fluid leaking out.
Are you sure when you bleed the brakes you are getting all the air out?
Are you starting with the bleeder that is the fartherest from the master cylinder?
Is the master cylinder OK?
 



 
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Question about my brakes

Posted: 2/20/07 11:02am Message 3 of 13
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Frederick, MD - USA
Joined: 9/8/2003
Posts: 3398
Vette(s): 1969 convertible L71 427/435 4-speed black interior
What dwright said is the most likely culprits. What you also have to check is something that happened to my '78...one caliper seal didn't properly seal. Instead of leaking fluid, it sucked air in every time I used the brakes. It didn't take too many miles before it showed itself and needed bleeding. Eventually the probelm was discovered and fixed.

It's not always the obvious, but check the obvious first.


Question about my brakes

Posted: 2/20/07 11:06am Message 4 of 13
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Duncanville, TX - USA
Joined: 11/8/2003
Posts: 20225
Vette(s): #1-1974 L-48 4spd Cp Med Red Metallic/Black deluxe int w/AC/tilt/tele./p/w-p/b/ Am-Fm/map light National/Regional/Chapter NCRS "Top Flight" #2-1985 Bright Red/Carmine Cp.L-98/auto Member: NCRS, NCRS Texas, Corvette Legends of Texas
If the rotors are indeed "pumping", as Dave says, there wouldn't be any fluid leakage out of the system. The warped/out of parallel rotors cause the pistons to pump in & out, due to the springs behind the caliper pistons, and this sucks air into the calipers. The design of the seals on the pistons will allow this sucking action, but are not designed to let fluid out the other direction.
Eventually, if you just kept driving without re-bleeding the system, you would have enough air pumped into it to actually apply the brakes on their own, or it would blow a seal on the master cyl.
That being said, be sure to check that there is no fluid loss from the master cyl. into the brake booster. If this is leaking, you wouldn't be able to see the fluid anywhere on the outside. If you take the two nuts holding the master to the booster off, and slide the booster forward, you will be able to tell if the master is leaking there.


Joel Adams
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Question about my brakes

Posted: 2/20/07 1:07pm Message 5 of 13
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Spotsylvania, VA - USA
Joined: 1/20/2007
Posts: 293
Vette(s): 1977 Silver Coupe
Sorry, It sounds like the Calipers are bad. Mine were doing the same thing. I could bleed all the air out, Run the car about a week, and then I had to bleed the system again.
A friend of mine came across and old flyer on the subject. I tried to rebuild the calipers but that didn't help. I Still had the same problem. The Flyer said to replace the calipers with ones that had the Stainless Inserts. That worked.  Oh yea Prior to this I had the car in the shop. I was told that I had ONE bad caliper. (left rear) They replaced it. and bled the system. I came o pick the car up .....You guessed it brakes went to the floor. And then they said Oh, the front needs to be do to. I couldn't get out of there fast enough. I like doing my own work. Its Fun and I know its right.



Question about my brakes

Posted: 2/20/07 1:11pm Message 6 of 13
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Spotsylvania, VA - USA
Joined: 1/20/2007
Posts: 293
Vette(s): 1977 Silver Coupe

I forgot. They will suck air without leaking.




Question about my brakes

Posted: 2/20/07 2:32pm Message 7 of 13
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Savannah, GA - USA
Joined: 1/20/2005
Posts: 936
Vette(s): 1982CE,32,000 and counting. (fast!!) 1981 Vette, black on black. ZZ4 (quick!!)
My MC/Booster are new.It don't feel like a warped rotor.I'll look over all you have said.The rear calipers are SS the fronts are orginal to the car.


Question about my brakes

Posted: 2/20/07 5:17pm Message 8 of 13
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North Charleston, SC - USA
Joined: 3/20/2004
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Vette(s): 1975 L48 AT AC T-top
It only needs to be a few thousandths over spec to cause the calipers to "pump". You won't necessarily feel the brake pedal pulsing. The first step in solving this is checking the runout on the rotors. Putting on new calipers will not solve the problem if the runout is excessive.
Scott



Question about my brakes

Posted: 2/20/07 5:34pm Message 9 of 13
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Saxonburg, PA - USA
Joined: 11/14/2003
Posts: 143
Vette(s): 1982 Black over red, doing a resto.
Make sure you don't have a bad wheel bearing, that will move in and out and do the same thing as a rotor with too much runout.
 
Denny



Question about my brakes

Posted: 2/20/07 6:43pm Message 10 of 13
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Duncanville, TX - USA
Joined: 11/8/2003
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Vette(s): #1-1974 L-48 4spd Cp Med Red Metallic/Black deluxe int w/AC/tilt/tele./p/w-p/b/ Am-Fm/map light National/Regional/Chapter NCRS "Top Flight" #2-1985 Bright Red/Carmine Cp.L-98/auto Member: NCRS, NCRS Texas, Corvette Legends of Texas
Even a new rotor can cause the same symptoms. If the surface of the hub that the rotor sits on is rusty/dirty, it will still not be parallel. Plus, I've gotten new rotors out of the box that were crookeder than snot. I've always turned new rotors, just to be sure they were true...and some piece of mind for me.
Also, it matters not how good/new the calipers are...if the rotors are fluctuating, they(the caliper pistons) will pump air. The only ones that do not are the o-ring type, and they will if there is enough run-out on the rotors, but it would have to be really bad.


Joel Adams
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in Forum: C3 Engines, Driveline and Handling


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