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Topic: '76 L-48 Lean Misfire?

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'76 L-48 Lean Misfire?

Posted: 9/17/07 9:13pm Message 1 of 19
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Vancouver, WA - USA
Joined: 8/25/2005
Posts: 869
Vette(s): 1976 Silver/Firethorn. L48, 4spd. Original 2 bolt, vortec heads, 9.4:1 CR, Speed Pro Cam: 224/224@0.050, 112 LSA, Eagle Steel Crank.
This is my first post to this site, although I've been looking around for awhile and am impressed with the amount of knowledge floating around out there.  Now I'm hoping that knowledge can help me.
 
Car: '76, L-48, 4-speed, bone stock except K&N air filter and dual magna-flow exhaust, no cats.  EGR is still hooked up and presumably operable.  There's no A.I.R. system (no indication there ever was one - I think some 76's didn't have it.)
 
Problem: I'm having what I think is a lean misfire.  It idles strange and erratic (sometimes sounds like a 6 cylinder from the exhaust) and I can hear and feel an inconsistent miss between 1500 and 2500 rpm.  It also has a pronounced backfire (again erratic, though) on deceleration.  Strong smell of hydrocarbons from the exhaust, but idle mixture screws are only 2.5 turns out. 
 
What I've done:  Just rebuilt the Q-jet thinking it was plugged idle passages or a carb vacuum leak.  If anything, problem is now worse.  I've done my best to check for other vacuum leaks - squeezed hoses with pliers, sprayed starting fluid around intake manifold mating surfaces to see if idle changes - nothing.   Runs pretty good on the freeway, I think that would rule out fuel filter, pump, lines, etc.  Also since the miss is erratic it would probably rule out specific ignition wires and plugs (relatively new), valves, low compression on one cylinder, etc?  Timing is set at 8 degrees per spec.  (Vacuum advance disabled, vacuum hose plugged) Could it be a leaking EGR valve?  One other piece of info: I replaced the HEI with a low priced copy.  I've already had to replace a failed module and I question the quality of the rest of the unit.   Could it be distributor problems?  Vacuum advance maybe? 
 
Any suggestions would be appreciated.  I've got an appointment to have it scoped at a speed shop in a few weeks, but if there's something I could try in the meantime that would be cool.  Thanks mucho.




 

1976 Silver/Firethorn.  L48, 4spd.  Original 2 bolt, vortec heads, 9.4:1 CR, Speed Pro Cam: 224/224@0.050, 112 LSA, Eagle Steel Crank.
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'76 L-48 Lean Misfire?

Posted: 9/18/07 5:17am Message 2 of 19
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Duncanville, TX - USA
Joined: 11/8/2003
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Vette(s): #1-1974 L-48 4spd Cp Med Red Metallic/Black deluxe int w/AC/tilt/tele./p/w-p/b/ Am-Fm/map light National/Regional/Chapter NCRS "Top Flight" #2-1985 Bright Red/Carmine Cp.L-98/auto Member: NCRS, NCRS Texas, Corvette Legends of Texas
[QUOTE=daveo76]Just rebuilt the Q-jet thinking it was plugged idle passages or a carb vacuum leak. If anything, problem is now worse...[/QUOTE]

You probably answered your own question...
The carb may have a warped base plate, or top. At the speed you get the mis-fire(1500-2500), it should have already transitioned from the idle circuits to the main jets. If it is actually running that lean, that can/will cause an exhaust backfire under decell.
I'd suggest pulling the plugs and "reading" them. Look for really bright white insulators for a lean condition.
The EGR not functioning could create what would appear to be a vacuum leak if it is stuck open a little, and could also cause a backfire, as it is allowing extra air into the exhaust...
How about the cap/rotor? How do they look? If the cap has "lightning bolts" on the inside, it is bad...same with the rotor. Turn the rotor over, and lok at the bottom of it. If you see any lightning bolts, or dark lines going from the center piece out towards the two screws, it is bad. The plastic the rotors are made from doesn't always stand up to the high voltage, and it will actually allow the voltage from the center piece to arc over to the screws...

I'd suggest taking a look at the cap/rotor first, then the plugs, and go from there...
hth


Joel Adams
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'76 L-48 Lean Misfire?

Posted: 9/18/07 6:20pm Message 3 of 19
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Vancouver, WA - USA
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Vette(s): 1976 Silver/Firethorn. L48, 4spd. Original 2 bolt, vortec heads, 9.4:1 CR, Speed Pro Cam: 224/224@0.050, 112 LSA, Eagle Steel Crank.
Thanks for the response.  Hmmm, warped base plate.... is that common for a Q-jet?  What about the manifold?  (original)   One question I had regarding the carb to manifold interface:  when I took the carb off, there was only a 1/4" thick black spacer as a gasket.  The rebuild kit had the spacer as well as a cardboard gasket with the four holes to match the bores in both manifold and carb.  I only used the spacer gasket, should I have used both?  If so, should the carboard gasket go on top of the spacer or below it?  Interestingly, the original spacer was cracked which is why I thought that was the problem when I removed the carb. 
 
I definitely plan to dig into the ignition next.  I have already tried replacing cap, rotor, and coil with not brand new ones, but other ones I had laying around that seemed to be in good condition - they do not seem to affect the problem one way or the other.   I've also thought about cutting a solid gasket out for the EGR to completely block it off.  Can you get that kind of material to make your own gaskets?  (I'd get a new EGR to try, but at $60 at Napa, seems like an expensive way to test a component). 
 
Thanks again for the response. 
 
 
Dave




 

1976 Silver/Firethorn.  L48, 4spd.  Original 2 bolt, vortec heads, 9.4:1 CR, Speed Pro Cam: 224/224@0.050, 112 LSA, Eagle Steel Crank.

'76 L-48 Lean Misfire?

Posted: 9/18/07 7:11pm Message 4 of 19
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Duncanville, TX - USA
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Vette(s): #1-1974 L-48 4spd Cp Med Red Metallic/Black deluxe int w/AC/tilt/tele./p/w-p/b/ Am-Fm/map light National/Regional/Chapter NCRS "Top Flight" #2-1985 Bright Red/Carmine Cp.L-98/auto Member: NCRS, NCRS Texas, Corvette Legends of Texas
The thicker gasket is correct, if it completely covers all of the open areas of the base plate. You have to really watch, because some of them do not fit every application, and it may leave just a bit uncovered around the front, and sides, and create a vac. leak.

The base plates can, and will warp, if tightened too much, and may even snap the ears on the rear, while warping the top in the front. The base gasket should have little hard plastic inserts around the bolt hole to keep from over torquing, but...
Also, you should always make sure the gasket doesn't interfere with the throttle blades. I've seen many that would actually keep the secondaries stuck open a little.

If your EGR valve is flat on the bottom, you can put a temporary block off plate in there for testing. Just a thin sheet of tin would work for that.



Joel Adams
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'76 L-48 Lean Misfire?

Posted: 9/19/07 10:10pm Message 5 of 19
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Vancouver, WA - USA
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Vette(s): 1976 Silver/Firethorn. L48, 4spd. Original 2 bolt, vortec heads, 9.4:1 CR, Speed Pro Cam: 224/224@0.050, 112 LSA, Eagle Steel Crank.
So if the carb base plate is warped, that pretty much means new carb, doesn't it? 
 
Also, going back to the EGR....  There was an existing gasket on there that looked like asbestos to me (is it?) that was extrememly hard to get off (and kind of scary).  Now I'm worried that I'm not getting a good seal around there with the new gasket I used.  Another reason problem could be worse than when I started..... 
 
Thanks for the help. 
 
Dave 




 

1976 Silver/Firethorn.  L48, 4spd.  Original 2 bolt, vortec heads, 9.4:1 CR, Speed Pro Cam: 224/224@0.050, 112 LSA, Eagle Steel Crank.

'76 L-48 Lean Misfire?

Posted: 9/20/07 5:14am Message 6 of 19
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Duncanville, TX - USA
Joined: 11/8/2003
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Vette(s): #1-1974 L-48 4spd Cp Med Red Metallic/Black deluxe int w/AC/tilt/tele./p/w-p/b/ Am-Fm/map light National/Regional/Chapter NCRS "Top Flight" #2-1985 Bright Red/Carmine Cp.L-98/auto Member: NCRS, NCRS Texas, Corvette Legends of Texas
IF the baseplate is warped/cracked, it can be changed. No need to replace the entire carb for that, if a suitable replacement base can be found.

The EGR gasket is paper-based, similar to intake gaskets, but it does have a metallic/lead-like layer on the outside, and some do have a thin stainless steel core. Normally, if that gasket is leaking, you should be able to hear what amounts to an exhaust leak around the valve, but it could be a small amount of old gasket would create a small vac. leak without being loud enough to hear.
I wouldn't really recommend using starting fluid to check for vac. leaks, tho...use some spry type brake cleaner, (or carb cleaner if you have an aluminuminum intake) as starter fluid could cause a really nasty explosion if the car happens to backfire...


Joel Adams
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'76 L-48 Lean Misfire?

Posted: 9/21/07 8:14am Message 7 of 19
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Badin Lake, NC - USA
Joined: 4/21/2004
Posts: 101
Vette(s): 1979 Red L-48 Corvette with Doeskin interior, 3-speed automatic, 3.55 rear; 1986 L-98 Coupe, 4+3 Manual - Satin Black and Purple (SCCA TT/Hillclimb Car); 1993 White LT-1 Coupe, Black Interior, 6-speed
I had a leaking EGR on my L-48 and made up a little block off plate with some steel sheet. Solved the problem and I guess I never bothered to repiar the EGR valve since it worked well with it blocked off.  Oh well....


C3: 1979 Corvette Coupe, Auto, L-48, Red/Doeskin (my wife's fave);
C4s: 1986 C4 coupe (SCCA road race car), satin black, 4+3, Z51 package, L-98;  & 1993 C4 coupe, white, 6-speed, LT-1.

'76 L-48 Lean Misfire?

Posted: 10/13/07 9:40pm Message 8 of 19
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Vette(s): 1976 Silver/Firethorn. L48, 4spd. Original 2 bolt, vortec heads, 9.4:1 CR, Speed Pro Cam: 224/224@0.050, 112 LSA, Eagle Steel Crank.
I finally got time to do some more troubleshooting on this problem. I had it running today and continued to look for vacuum leaks using the carb cleaner spray method. I found a spot that dramatically increased idle speed if I sprayed - surprisingly to me it was right around the back of the RH exhaust manifold (at the interface between manifold and head for #6 and #8). Is it possible for a leak at the exhaust manifold like this to cause a lean misfire, i.e. sucking in outside air on the intake stroke? No amount of spraying anywhere else changed the idle, and I sprayed a lot at the base of the carb and at the interface between intake and heads.

So a little more background here: A few years ago, I replaced the stock exhaust with 2-1/2" dual Magnaflows. While doing this, I broke an exhaust pipe stud on the manifold in question. I proceeded to remove the manifold, managed to get the stud out and replaced it and reinstalled the manifold. Ever since then, the car has always had a slight backfire on decceleration, but I attributed that to the fact that I eliminated the cat and associated backpressure. I've also been able to see a slight bit of smoke from that corner of the engine - I blamed that on a leaking valve cover gasket, but now I'm thinking I may have been wrong on both assumptions. So if this is indeed the problem (or if it's even possible to cause the symptoms) what should I do? I remember taking that manifold off and reinstalling was kind of a nightmare, but I'm concerned that it may be cracked there.   I'm going to try retorquing bolts first, but should I really take that manifold off and check it? What about using a gasket - stock doesn't have gaskets and I didn't put one in when I reinstalled. Should I have it planed? Also, does anyone have a better locking method than those French lock things?




Finally, I replaced the EGR valve and really cleaned up the mounting surface - eliminated that source of vacuum problems at least. Any help you can give me would be good. Sorry for the long post.


(sig pic)Adams' Apple2007-10-14 08:18:55



 

1976 Silver/Firethorn.  L48, 4spd.  Original 2 bolt, vortec heads, 9.4:1 CR, Speed Pro Cam: 224/224@0.050, 112 LSA, Eagle Steel Crank.

'76 L-48 Lean Misfire?

Posted: 10/14/07 5:58am Message 9 of 19
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Lanoka Harbor, NJ - USA
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Vette(s): 1975 metallic blue coupe with t-tops,L48, t/t steering, black leather interior. 1990 L98, white/red leather interior, auto,a/c
i have never seen and exhaust manifold or any other metal to metal surfaces without a gasket in between them. is it possible that whoever had the car before you left them out. on my 75 when i got it there was one and a half on passenger side. thought i bought a nightmare. i replaced it and the only thing i did was loosen the header from the pipe so i could turn and manuever it. bolted up flat against the head and no problem. whoever worked on the car before was too lazy to do what i did.


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'76 L-48 Lean Misfire?

Posted: 10/14/07 7:14am Message 10 of 19
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North Charleston, SC - USA
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Vette(s): 1975 L48 AT AC T-top
I'm with David on this one. I have owned six Vettes and a few Camaros and I have never had one that did not have exhaust manifold gaskets. I can't believe yours doesn't leak everywhere. I can't imagine the heads and exhaust manifold mating surfaces are so true that you can torque them down metal to metal and they seal.
 
I would buy some good quality exhaust gaskets and have a weekend project. As to whether that is causing your "misfire"...I don't know. Have you loked at you plug wires closely? Maybe an exhaust "jet" has damaged a wire. Maybe you have a minute crack in the head.
 
See if you can get an infared thermometer and shoot each exhaust port. Find the "cool" cylinder. Narrow down your search and trouble shoot from there.
 
Scott



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