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Topic: camshaft what?

in Forum: C3 Engines


camshaft what?

Posted: 9/1/05 10:37pm Message 1 of 14
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Bismarck, ND - USA
Joined: 10/1/2004
Posts: 380
Vette(s): 1970 stingray, t-top, mulsanne blue with black interior, 406 ci with 444 hp, racing suspension, hooker headers/sidepipes - SOLD :(

so I was parked outside a restaurant today, talking on the phone, and this guy started askin me about the engine in the 'ray...size, horsepower, camshaft, askin me to start it up...he says there's no way the engine will run 600 horsepower with the camshaft currently in there.  the builder of the engine claims that it should run roughly double the output of the original motor.  original motor was a 350/300 horsepower...using the last known definition of the world "double"  I would assume that this 406 should have anywhere from 500-600 horse at the crank.  any opinions on whether this guy is correct?  cause if he is, the guy that built my engine is going to have to tell me why I paid for 600 horsepower and didn't get it.  here's a link to the cam card, if any other info is needed, tell me what and I'll get it posted.

http://www.c3vr.com/member_uploads/6601_6700/6623/cam%20card .jpg

CorvetteRacer197038596.9431944444


Mike

My old Stingray...sure do miss it:


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camshaft what?

Posted: 9/2/05 5:15am Message 2 of 14
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Edgewood, KY - USA
Joined: 10/26/2003
Posts: 339
Vette(s): 1981, Black/Black, Engine bumped to about 400HP.Ext/int mostly stock.
I am not a cam expert to the point that I can look at the numbers and quote a range of horsepower, but I can tell you that 600 HP from 406 CIs would be one hell of a hot street engine.  It would require very good heads, intake, ...well just about every major engine part would have to be race-ready.  Now if 200 HO of that 600 is coming from NOS, maybe that's a different story.  Like I said, I'm not an expert, but I know that anything significantly above 1 HP per CI requires attention and $$ in every part of the engine.  I'm sure others more knowledgeable will chime in... 


camshaft what?

Posted: 9/2/05 5:32am Message 3 of 14
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Bismarck, ND - USA
Joined: 10/1/2004
Posts: 380
Vette(s): 1970 stingray, t-top, mulsanne blue with black interior, 406 ci with 444 hp, racing suspension, hooker headers/sidepipes - SOLD :(
no nitrous.


Mike

My old Stingray...sure do miss it:


(click image to see a bigger version)

camshaft what?

Posted: 9/2/05 5:34am Message 4 of 14
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Bismarck, ND - USA
Joined: 10/1/2004
Posts: 380
Vette(s): 1970 stingray, t-top, mulsanne blue with black interior, 406 ci with 444 hp, racing suspension, hooker headers/sidepipes - SOLD :(

camshaft what?

Posted: 9/2/05 7:55am Message 5 of 14
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Edgewood, KY - USA
Joined: 10/26/2003
Posts: 339
Vette(s): 1981, Black/Black, Engine bumped to about 400HP.Ext/int mostly stock.

I'm curious to hear what the engine experts on the forum will have to say.  With the TrickFlow heads, high-rise, headers (and I assume a high-flow exaust, sufficient carb, etc.) this will certainly be one cool street machine.  However, in my limited experience, I don't recall hearing of any street engine getting a legitimate 1.5 HP per cubic inch without a blower, turbo, or nitrous.  Not saying it can't be done, I just haven't heard of it in a street engine.

If you provide the full stats/part #s on the vital components, I suspect someone on here would run them through Desktop Dyno or similar software and tell you what the estimated HP should be.

One last thought... I doubt you have much recourse, IF the HP is less than 600.  About the only way that would work is if you have guaranteed 600 HP in writing.  If he just said "I can double your power", I would interpret that a lot more vaguely.  Who know whether your original motor was really putting out 300 HP or really 270 or 330?




camshaft what?

Posted: 9/2/05 9:19am Message 6 of 14
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sonoma, CA - USA
Joined: 8/9/2002
Posts: 784
Vette(s): 72 LT-1 AC coupe,69 l-36 coupe
Lets see, the new 427-ZO-6 produce's 505HP at the wheels might be 600+ at the crank, my American Speed engine cat. shows only one 406 with CNC Alum. AFR heads up to 600 hp for $11,000. with a Dyno slip, they build most of their engines at 9 1/2 to 1 compression, doesn't say on the 406, the 383 blower motor is 700 HP, a couple pulls on a Dyno should answer any questions.








camshaft what?

Posted: 9/2/05 9:23am Message 7 of 14
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Batavia, IL - USA
Joined: 3/27/2003
Posts: 622
Vette(s): 496 big block, Dragvette 6 link, 12 bolt IRS conversion, Going for fastest Vette IRS E/T
For a 406 cid small block, Normally aspirated, 600 hp with that cam is a very tall order for that motor. I'll bet that if you get that engine to a chassis dyno you will be seeing ballpark of 380 to 400 hp to the wheels. now this is about 20% less than what you fly wheel out put is. Do you know the stroke they used and bore size they used to achive 406 cid? I remember you saying that they used you original block which is a 350. that block has a 4.00 bore stock. the typical 406 uses a 400 block with a 4.125 bore using 5.7 rods rather than the 5.56 rod the stocker came with. that and .030 bore out. Are you sure they didnt build you a 383?Tumarr38597.3947222222


camshaft what?

Posted: 9/2/05 9:26am Message 8 of 14
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Batavia, IL - USA
Joined: 3/27/2003
Posts: 622
Vette(s): 496 big block, Dragvette 6 link, 12 bolt IRS conversion, Going for fastest Vette IRS E/T
In other words, I dont want to rain on your parade but I seriously doubt that you are any where near 600hp fly wheel.


camshaft what?

Posted: 9/2/05 9:54am Message 9 of 14
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Virginia City, NV - USA
Joined: 1/19/2005
Posts: 314
Vette(s): 1979 Coupe, white in color
The altered I use to pit for was a 400+ CI, I don't remember the exact displacement, I think it was 417. It had an Eagle crank in a splayed 4 bolt main block, Eagle rods and Bill Miller pistons. The heads were AFR aluminum, ported by the same guy that does a lot of pro stock (he use to do Warren Johnson's heads) heads. It had a big roller cam and full roller valve train with stud girdles. It ran a Hilborn bug catcher fuel injection system and compleate MSD ignition system. It all was worth about 600 ponies, and that was on alky.


camshaft what?

Posted: 9/2/05 10:11am Message 10 of 14
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Portland, TN - USA
Joined: 4/29/2003
Posts: 805
Vette(s): 1972 Coupe Anything, but Stock and more mods to come! SSBC Force 10 Brakes, 3.73, TH350, 355 CID, Rack and Pinion, Vette Brakes suspension front and rear.

Hope you have not spent that money, becaue I have worked on enough engine projects and spec'd out enough parts over the years to know that you won't have 600 HP.  Example and you can go get this article DEC 2004 of Chevy High.  I can fax it if you like.

Although the gist of the story was to show the advantage of a 4/7 swap and we did do the swap, I first had to fix this guys mis match and crazy valve train setup.  When they guy first called me about this engine project I knew something was wrong because the track times didn't match up to his combo, way down on power based on what he was telling me.  When he described the combo it should have been makeing 550 to 600 HP.  His combination was all wrong, but here is what I finally ended up doing to get him on the right path.  What I will describe is an engine that is far more stout then your street engine and they are just barely on the thresh hold of making 600 HP.

CID 414 inches

4.165 Bore 3.800 Sroke 5.85" Rods, 9CC Dome Pistons = 14:1 Compression.

AFR 210 Heads  - Ported by AFR's Cheif cylinder head engineer Tony Mamo

Edelbrock Super Victor with a 1050 Dominator

Lunati Intake 1.5 Rockers, Exhaust 1.6 Rockers

Lunati matching Springs Locks, and Retainers for the Cam

Lunati Solid Roller Cam P/N 501D5LUN Ground on a Small Base Circle

Cam Specs: 280/288 @ .050  Lift .685 Intake Exhaust .682 Lobe Sep 108 C/L 102

Dyno Results = 620 HP @ 6700, 550 lb ft @ 5500

There would be alot more in this engine with some really good 225 cnc heads.  Your street combo will probably only make 460 HP and 500 LB Ft.  thats my best guess, but I would have to see a list of all parts.




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