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Topic: Can I do this??

in Forum: C3 Engines

Can I do this??

Posted: 5/25/10 7:43am Message 1 of 14
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So I have smoke coming out of my exhaust.  I can't really tell if it's blue or black, but since the car is losing oil and there's none on the floor, I'm guessing it's burning oil.  When I first turn on the car there is a cloud, and there is a nice puff everytime I down shift or excelerate.

History:  The car is a small block 350, numbers matching.  About five years ago I had the engine rebuilt.  I know it was completely broken down and bored out at that time.  The guy who was doing it had issues with the owner of the shop.  The reuslt was that they had my car for a year, the guy got fired, and as part of the agreement with the owner, came back, put my engine together, and put it back in the car.  I now know that the first part of the rebuild was done correctly, the slapping it together was not. 
 
So from reading I think my rings might be bad.  They were probably the cheapest that could be found in a hurry, and it was literly slapped together.  Is that something that I can do?  I do have basic knowledge of engines, I have done some work on them, and I can read and understand manuals.  I just don't know if this requires special tools, can the engine stay in the car, am I getting in over my head??
 
Thanks all!
 



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Can I do this??

Posted: 5/25/10 9:29am Message 2 of 14
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Holland Patent, NY - USA
Joined: 6/3/2008
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Vette(s): #1 *1980 White, Red interior 14,000 mile #2 *1980 Red, Oyster interior 93,000 miles Resto project car, rebuilt to 383 stroker
There is a bit of work involved ut not rocket science. You most likley will have to do some honing to the cylinders. But there may be alot of while I'm in there...........
Evil Smileebo




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Can I do this??

Posted: 5/25/10 9:49am Message 3 of 14
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Duncanville, TX - USA
Joined: 11/8/2003
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Vette(s): #1-1974 L-48 4spd Cp Med Red Metallic/Black deluxe int w/AC/tilt/tele./p/w-p/b/ Am-Fm/map light National/Regional/Chapter NCRS "Top Flight" #2-1985 Bright Red/Carmine Cp.L-98/auto Member: NCRS, NCRS Texas, Corvette Legends of Texas
You can re-ring with the engine in the car, but....why? Ken(ksyter) swapped the crank out of his car with the engine still in it...on the ground...in his yard!
My opinion is, I would pull the engine and do it right. There's no telling what else might be ready to take a doo-doo on it. The cylinders need to be measured for out-of-round & taper, as well as bore size, and then compared to the size of the pistons. It may be that the cylinders are too large(bore size) for the pistons. Cheap rings will cause it too, but normally won't live 5 years before having a problem.
I'd say pull it and start over...just my .02.....



Joel Adams
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Can I do this??

Posted: 5/25/10 10:00am Message 4 of 14
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Well, five years doesn't really explain it.  It was in storage for a few years, then it took over a year to paint, etc.  So I figure that I have less than 200 miles on the car since the rebuild. 

From what I'm reading, it appears that this is more than I can do. 

 




Can I do this??

Posted: 5/25/10 10:10am Message 5 of 14
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Duncanville, TX - USA
Joined: 11/8/2003
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Vette(s): #1-1974 L-48 4spd Cp Med Red Metallic/Black deluxe int w/AC/tilt/tele./p/w-p/b/ Am-Fm/map light National/Regional/Chapter NCRS "Top Flight" #2-1985 Bright Red/Carmine Cp.L-98/auto Member: NCRS, NCRS Texas, Corvette Legends of Texas
Well now...that changes things a bit.
It could be that the rings have never even seated from the rebuild. Depending on what type they were, it may take even more steady driving to get them seated properly, if they even will at this point. Fresh engine re-builds will usually burn/use a little oil until the rings get seated...
Some quality moly/chrome moly rings take a long time(relatively) to seat properly, and even that depends on the quality of the surface in the bores, as in how they were finish-honed.
I might suggest at this point having a leak-down test done, and compare the leakage across the board on all cylinders. If one or two leak considerably more than the others, then it would be best to pull and start over. If they all leak about the same, then it may just need some driving miles to seat the rings better.
Does the engine run ok, other than the smoke?



Joel Adams
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Can I do this??

Posted: 5/25/10 10:49am Message 6 of 14
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Thanks for the info Joel!
 
Yeah, the car runs great, very strong.  I'm totally happy with it, lots of power - it just smokes and loses oil. 
 
Again, no oil shows up under the car.  It puts out a cloud when it first starts, and doesn't smoke as much after that.  In tooking at it from the rear, the driver's side is noticable while the car is parked and driving down the road, and the passenger's side is just about nonexistant.  It's more noticable during downshifting, but there is a steady small amount coming from the driver's side at all times. 



Can I do this??

Posted: 5/25/10 7:19pm Message 7 of 14
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Duncanville, TX - USA
Joined: 11/8/2003
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Vette(s): #1-1974 L-48 4spd Cp Med Red Metallic/Black deluxe int w/AC/tilt/tele./p/w-p/b/ Am-Fm/map light National/Regional/Chapter NCRS "Top Flight" #2-1985 Bright Red/Carmine Cp.L-98/auto Member: NCRS, NCRS Texas, Corvette Legends of Texas
Slim possibility that it has some damaged, or even missing valve seals...


Joel Adams
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Can I do this??

Posted: 5/25/10 7:35pm Message 8 of 14
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North Charleston, SC - USA
Joined: 3/20/2004
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Vette(s): 1975 L48 AT AC T-top
I think Joel is correct suggesting valve seals. One of the telltales signs is smooke when you let off the gas. If you are running around 2000rpm, let off the accelerator and see smoke from the exhaust, that is usually a good sign of bad seals. hth.
 
Scott



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Posted: 5/26/10 6:46am Message 9 of 14
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COPPERAS COVE, TX - USA
Joined: 7/6/2002
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Vette(s): 1972 corvette stingray convertible 2007 coupe
I would have to say it's the valves leaking down, if it was the rings it would smoke all the time. The valve guides are probably bad or harder than woodpecker lips, this allows oil to drain down through the valve into the cylinder this gives you the blue smoke on start up, when you let up off the gas to shift the engine will suck through the guides and this causes the puff of smoke when shifting. You can change the seals in the car. My two cent's.


Can I do this??

Posted: 5/28/10 9:36am Message 10 of 14
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Dunedin, FL - USA
Joined: 3/21/2006
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Vette(s): 1980 Corvette Torch Red with Gold metallic 370HP/350 CU.IN.Turbo 350 w/shift kit.Originally CA.Car with 305 CU.IN.

I concur with both Joel and Scott on the valve seals and possibly the valve guides gone south. Compression test wet and dry should tell you which,Valves or rings..

I assume the cam and lifters were seasoned properly with a run up to 2200 rpm or better for a minimum of 15-20 minutes...and a ZDDP oil or additive used for flat tappet cams.
There has been a rash of cam and lifter failures of late due to lack of Zinc Phosphate in the present day oil. Roller cam engines do not need the ZDDP.Cam manufactures are now sending out with their cams and lifters a disclaimer about using off the self oil without ZDDP....
      Good luck and have a great day........
 
       Sal C



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