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Topic: Cross Fire Injection- Bad Idle

in Forum: C3 Engines

Cross Fire Injection- Bad Idle

Posted: 6/16/08 6:38pm Message 1 of 29
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Victor, NY - USA
Joined: 7/12/2004
Posts: 6841
Vette(s): 2004 Commemorative Edition Coupe, Auto w/HUD. 13K miles in 2015. Sold 1982 Red Coupe
I have had this problem since I bought the car 4 years ago, but never this bad.
 
On a cold start, the engine will rev up to 1000, then back down to 400-500, then back up and down several times before it settles out at 800 RPM. It takes about 10 seconds to do that.
 
After that, it always ran fine.
 
When I was at Fort Wayne, IN, it was a violent cycle between 1200 and 400, then it would stall. Start it up again and the only way to keep it from stalling was to press on the accelerator.
 
Once I got rolling, it would be better.
 
I just tried it in the garage, and it was better (milder oscillations), but still stalled.
 
Here is a video of the engine cold start. I did not touch the accelerator.
 
 
I took the air filters off and watched the injectors. They looked OK, but the RPM still was going up and down.
 
What should I try first?



 
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Cross Fire Injection- Bad Idle

Posted: 6/16/08 6:56pm Message 2 of 29
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Mounds View, MN - USA
Joined: 5/24/2007
Posts: 1031
Vette(s): 70 LT1 coupe, 69 350 HP coupe, 69 390HP 427 coupe, 71 LS5 convert, 85 coupe, 93 coupe
The most obvious things to check are the fuel pump and  injectors, the fuel pressure regulator, vacuum leaks.  And the next is the fuel return line.  I have seen cars with that return line plugged, and it makes for all sorts of annoying problems.  Another possibility is the Throttle Position Sensor. 

Some more obscure ideas:  a leak where the two halves of the unit mate, or worn throttle shafts, coolant temp sensor,.

Corvette Fever mag had an article about tuning the Crossfire.  I found it online at: http://www.corvettefever.com/techarticles/4688_chevrolet_corvette_efi_system_tuning/index.html


Good luck

Larry



Cross Fire Injection- Bad Idle

Posted: 6/16/08 7:15pm Message 3 of 29
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CUYAHOGA FALLS, OH - USA
Joined: 12/2/2003
Posts: 6424
Vette(s): 1975 C3 Red, T-Tops, Black Interior. All I need is time and money! Getting there!
When all tune up items are okay and there is no vacuum leaks the throttle bodies are out of adjustment.  Don't forget the PCV valve, use an AC delco valve, NOT and aftermarket.  These are very touchy.
 
First, clean all the idle passages and the idle controller.   Then open the throttle plates, engine off, and clean the back of the throttle plates and the throttle bores.
 
Start the engine and find the intake port for the idle controller.  Warm the engine, and plug the idle intake.   Install a vacuum gauge to the port on top of each throttle body.   Better yet use a mamometer connected to both of them. 
 
Turn the throttle screws, which may or may not be under sealed plugs.  (they were when new, but maybe not now)  Turn one of the screws until the vacuum balances between the two units.  Now adjust both equally, until you hit the minimum air rpm setting, usually around 450 or 500, but look it up.   Be sure the vacuum is still balanced.  Remove the plug from the idle intake port, and allow it to stablize.
 
It should idle fine now.



Cross Fire Injection- Bad Idle

Posted: 6/17/08 2:45am Message 4 of 29
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Victor, NY - USA
Joined: 7/12/2004
Posts: 6841
Vette(s): 2004 Commemorative Edition Coupe, Auto w/HUD. 13K miles in 2015. Sold 1982 Red Coupe
The injectors looked fine.
How do I check for vacuum leaks at the throttle bodies?
 
I have a Hypertech chip in the computer. It says to remove it and put the standard chip in when tuning the engine. Is that necessary when balancing the throttle bodies?
 
I need a picture of the throttle bodies to locate the idle passage, idle controller, intake port, idle intake, throttle screws, etc.



 
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Cross Fire Injection- Bad Idle

Posted: 6/17/08 4:50am Message 5 of 29
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Cramerton, NC - USA
Joined: 8/22/2006
Posts: 1094
Vette(s): black 1982 coupe slate gray interior, 350 crossfire, 1985 fuel pump, Steeroids R&P conversion
Dave, you have a PM


Cross Fire Injection- Bad Idle

Posted: 6/17/08 5:49am Message 6 of 29
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Flanders, NJ - USA
Joined: 1/27/2004
Posts: 2553
Vette(s): 1982 Black, ZZ4, Hooker Side Pipes, 3.55 Rear, Rebuilt & upgraded 700R4, All new suspension, brakes, & new Charcoal interior.
Dave, do you have the '82 service manual? It has pretty good instructions with lots of pictures on the Injection system.
Dave



 

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Dave's '82


   

Cross Fire Injection- Bad Idle

Posted: 6/19/08 4:16pm Message 7 of 29
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Joined: 8/9/2005
Posts: 66
Vette(s): 82 dark red
When my X-Fire refused to idle, the fix was to reseat the prom in the computer seat.  Maybe I had a bad contact at a pin.  I haven't had a single episode of poor idle or cease-fire ever since I did that, two years ago.


Cross Fire Injection- Bad Idle

Posted: 6/19/08 4:32pm Message 8 of 29
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CUYAHOGA FALLS, OH - USA
Joined: 12/2/2003
Posts: 6424
Vette(s): 1975 C3 Red, T-Tops, Black Interior. All I need is time and money! Getting there!
To balance the throttle bodies, you won't need to reinstall the original chips.   I don't have a picture, but if you take one and post it, I will grab it, apply the proper arrows, and repost with the information.


Cross Fire Injection- Bad Idle

Posted: 6/20/08 12:37pm Message 9 of 29
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Mount Airy, GA - USA
Joined: 11/4/2007
Posts: 16
Vette(s): 1982 red/red fully equiped 34k original miles delivered to GA and still in same state 3rd owner

With all the sensors being up to spec and running as they should, make sure the front trottle body isn't resting on the idle stop before the rear throttle body does. They should both be resting on the respective stops at the same time. The main reason being important is that the front throttle plate will be closed and the rear will be slightly open. Then the idle control motor can't react fast enough to adjust air, hence the up and down rpm until it stalls. My CF did this and I found the long linkage rod from the front TB causes the bracket connecting it to the rear TB to bend. Try holding the rear TB still at idle and put forward pressure on the front linkage rod and see if it doesn't smooth out! If it does, take a pair of pliers to the bracket holding both linkage rods (looks like a "C" shape) and slightly bend it forward. Over the years of motion, the front rod puts so much pressure on the bracket causing it to bend. TB's won't be out of sink unless modified or removed. In that case, they have to be timed together. 

Hope this helps... otherwise send a PM to CorvetteClinic@C3VRMail.com



Cross Fire Injection- Bad Idle

Posted: 6/20/08 4:13pm Message 10 of 29
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Mounds View, MN - USA
Joined: 5/24/2007
Posts: 1031
Vette(s): 70 LT1 coupe, 69 350 HP coupe, 69 390HP 427 coupe, 71 LS5 convert, 85 coupe, 93 coupe
The question was asked somewhere above about how to find a vacuum leak.  Another of my "Old Guy" easy tricks is to let the engine idle, and spray suspect areas with starter fluid or Gumout spray.  If you hit a leak, the engine will rev for a second.

Larry



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