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Topic: Engine diesels or continues to run.

in Forum: C3 Engines

Engine diesels or continues to run.

Posted: 12/2/07 6:04pm Message 1 of 11
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Huntingtown, MD - USA
Joined: 12/2/2007
Posts: 4
Vette(s): 1981 Corvette, Black, 5spd.
Hey everyone, first off I'm a new owner of an 81 Vette I'm working on fixing. First off I have a question about timing, I set it at 8 deg BTDC yesterday at about 800-850 rpm is that correct? My label on the hood is missing and the manual says to check there.
 
Now for the real question. Right now it's running a Holley carb on an Edelbrock manifold I think those are the only mods. Anyway I remove the key and the car will continue to run for about 5 seconds, in addition to that the Tachometer on the car normally dosen't work but for those 5 seconds it does, any ideas? The engine is around 210deg. so I don't think it's an overheating problem. Could a bad check valve from the brake booster cause anything like this?
 
One more question the choke on the Holley Carb was never hooked up does anyone know the color wire or approximate location for me to splice into it? I can't find it anywhere in the Haynes.
 
Thanks for any help you could offer.



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Engine diesels or continues to run.

Posted: 12/2/07 9:22pm Message 2 of 11
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Clarksville, TN - USA
Joined: 10/22/2005
Posts: 266
Vette(s): 1977 L48 T Top, Dark Blue
The choke wire needs to be connected to a 12 volt source that energizes when the key is turned on.  If you can get a wire back to the fuse block there should be a accessory terminal that is energized when the key is turned on.   If you decide to splice into a wire in the engine compartment use a multi-meter to be sure it is only energized when the key is in the on position.  If it is continuously providing 12 volts to the choke it will drain your battery.Angry
As for the run-on after shut down sounds like a timing issue.  My 77s timing is 8 deg BTDC @ 500 rpm.  Not sure for an 81.  Did you disconnect and plug the vacuum advance before you set the timing? 
 
I'm sure someone here will have the timing specs for your car and perhaps more insight on the run-on/dieseling.
 
Good luck!! Hope this helps...........Mel



Mel
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Engine diesels or continues to run.

Posted: 12/2/07 10:48pm Message 3 of 11
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Eastern Oklahoma County, OK - USA
Joined: 1/3/2006
Posts: 1560
Vette(s): 1980 Black L48 T-Tops
Is it possible that your harmonic balancer has spun and is not lining up correctly?  I went thru 3 of them before I was able to get it to work.

The bad news is I don't know of a way to check them without replacing them.  Go with an AC/Delco part, not an AutoZone or other aftermarket part for this or you may be chasing this for a while if it is the issue.



Engine diesels or continues to run.

Posted: 12/3/07 12:38am Message 4 of 11
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Huntingtown, MD - USA
Joined: 12/2/2007
Posts: 4
Vette(s): 1981 Corvette, Black, 5spd.
First off, thanks for the responces. Alright choke seems pretty easy then, I wasn't sure if it was adjustable and had a voltage range that gradually closed/opened it.
 
As far as the vacume advance, I believe they started using electronic advance in my year, either way mine has no vacume line from the manifold so it must be electronic. I honestly didn't know the harmonic balancer could spin. DNV as far as that goes have you had any experience w/it? I was only curious if the car still ran ok after it spun? I drove mine today and there was no audible knock/backfire/detonation, other then when turning the car off. Anyone have any ideas on how I could tell?
 
I do have some more information though. I beleive it's the ignition control module inside the distributor cap. Either way there is a 4 wire group coming out of the back side, about a foot afterwards joins at a harness clip with 4 more wires coming through the firewall. When the car is running all four wires from the firewall are running 13.8V kinda seems a little odd to me. Also I read something about a faulty solenoid on the side of the carb being a possible cause of dieseling my aftermarket holley has no solenoid just the choke motor and diaphram for the secondaries. any other ideas or suggestions?
 
One more thing the car has done it a few times is it possible the power valve blew out and is causing this?
 
Thanks everyone in advance for taking the time to read and help.



Engine diesels or continues to run.

Posted: 12/3/07 2:46am Message 5 of 11
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ANCHORAGE, AK - USA
Joined: 10/12/2004
Posts: 2193
Vette(s): 1965-327 coupe, 1968-small block coupe, 1969-427, 1971-454 coupe and currently a 1976-ZZ4 coupe reborn again,and hotter than ever.. Add a 1996 CE LT-4 for backup
Could be a holley shut down solenoid, I have one on my Holley 750 double pumper. Its on the driver side and when the ignition is turned off the fuel is shut down, mine would run after shut down, Holley sent me this to stop it and it worked. If your choke is electric and not hooked up that could be most of your problems, I would work on that first..




   "I Love all Corvettes! LifeTime Member #60..Terry"

Engine diesels or continues to run.

Posted: 12/3/07 6:15am Message 6 of 11
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Duncanville, TX - USA
Joined: 11/8/2003
Posts: 20214
Vette(s): #1-1974 L-48 4spd Cp Med Red Metallic/Black deluxe int w/AC/tilt/tele./p/w-p/b/ Am-Fm/map light National/Regional/Chapter NCRS "Top Flight" #2-1985 Bright Red/Carmine Cp.L-98/auto Member: NCRS, NCRS Texas, Corvette Legends of Texas
Dieseling after shutting off is caused by:
Vacuum leaks below the throttle plates
Idle too high
Fuel mixture too lean
Timing too advanced

800/850rpm idle sounds a little high to me for a standard trans car. Try setting it down to around 600/650rpm.

The solenoids used on the later cars are to solve this very problem. Unlike the early cars, that used to solenoid to raise the rpms when the A/C was on, later cars used it to raise the rpms for idling purposes. With the key on, the solenoid would extend, and keep the throttle at idle speed. When the key was turned off, the solenoid will retract, closing the throttle completely, eliminating the run-on/dieseling.


Joel Adams
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Engine diesels or continues to run.

Posted: 12/3/07 6:28am Message 7 of 11
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Flanders, NJ - USA
Joined: 1/27/2004
Posts: 2553
Vette(s): 1982 Black, ZZ4, Hooker Side Pipes, 3.55 Rear, Rebuilt & upgraded 700R4, All new suspension, brakes, & new Charcoal interior.
If the carb has been replaced, I assume the computer is not used anymore.


 

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Engine diesels or continues to run.

Posted: 12/3/07 6:45am Message 8 of 11
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Huntingtown, MD - USA
Joined: 12/2/2007
Posts: 4
Vette(s): 1981 Corvette, Black, 5spd.

Hey guys, thanks again for the tips. I just went outside and checked all the vacuum lines and sprayed carb cleaner on the gaskets to check for a vacuum leak or improper seal.

I again checked the timing when I was outside set at 8 deg btdc. On that note I may have been mistaken on the vacuum advance for the distributor I did find another vacuum line that ran to a small module on the firewall then back into a harness. Either way I disconnected the line and set it at 8 deg btdc.
 
Alright, I might be mistaken but I though dieseling was from to rich a/f ratio? I tried turning down the fuel pressure from the side screws on the Holley carb same results all the way until there wasn't enough pressure to start the car. Should I try increasing the pressure?
 
So that leaves the idle and choke which I will turn down and fix then repost results. Unfortunatly I can only guess on the RPM's because my tach dosen't work.
 
Thanks again for all the help and suggestions.



Engine diesels or continues to run.

Posted: 12/3/07 7:56pm Message 9 of 11
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Duncanville, TX - USA
Joined: 11/8/2003
Posts: 20214
Vette(s): #1-1974 L-48 4spd Cp Med Red Metallic/Black deluxe int w/AC/tilt/tele./p/w-p/b/ Am-Fm/map light National/Regional/Chapter NCRS "Top Flight" #2-1985 Bright Red/Carmine Cp.L-98/auto Member: NCRS, NCRS Texas, Corvette Legends of Texas
Dieseling can be caused from a too lean mixture, due to the cylinder temps being high from a lean condition. If the tops of the pistons, or even the spark pugs themselves are super hot, the engine will want to continue running.

Now...about this "fuel pressure" adjustment from the side screws on your Holley. The only screws on the side of a Holley that I'm aware of are the idle mixture screws, and the float level "windows", that allow you to see/adjust the float level.(The actual adjustment for the float level is on the tops of the fuel bowls.)
If you screw the two idle adjustment screws all the way in, it may very well keep the car from running after starting it, since there wouldn't be enough air entering the idle circuits.

The specs for the timing is 8deg for the manual trans, 6deg for the auto. I forgot to look to see what the idle speed was...I'll pull it up again in the morn.



Joel Adams
C3VR Lifetime Member #56    

My Link


(click for Texas-sized view!)
             NCRS

"Money can't buy happiness -- but somehow it's more comforting to cry in a CORVETTE than in a Kia"

Engine diesels or continues to run.

Posted: 12/4/07 4:37am Message 10 of 11
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Huntingtown, MD - USA
Joined: 12/2/2007
Posts: 4
Vette(s): 1981 Corvette, Black, 5spd.

Oh, ok well that explains a lot I wasn't really sure I just assumed they adjusted the fuel pressure, excuse me I'm still in import mode Clown.  I did get the choke fixed and I believe it's working properly.

I did suspect overheated carbon deposits as a possible cause, but even if I turn the engine on for like 5 seconds then turn it off it still diesels. Would the carbon be hot enough to ignite fuel in that short of time? I don't have any way to measure my A/F ratio.
 
I was considering just going w/the solenoid anyone have a part number or something I can use for now? I'm in Guam and parts take forever to get here.
 



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