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Topic: need engine advice..

in Forum: C3 Engines

need engine advice..

Posted: 6/25/08 8:42pm Message 1 of 8
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Joined: 4/29/2008
Posts: 129
Ok here is what I have from the last person that owned the car..

chev 350 block #14093638

355 cuin
.30 over
small chamber heads
460 lift cam
278 duration

I just did a compression test and i had :
1 at 180
1 at 160
6 at 170

I am pulling the engine to fix what I hope is just a rear main seal and leaky valve covers.. My question is :

1. is this a good setup?
2. can anyone tell me more about the block?
3. do i need to be worred about the cylnder that was 160 ?

Thanks in advance...
Joe 80VetteMan2008-06-25 20:43:54


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need engine advice..

Posted: 6/25/08 9:10pm Message 2 of 8
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Duncanville, TX - USA
Joined: 11/8/2003
Posts: 20214
Vette(s): #1-1974 L-48 4spd Cp Med Red Metallic/Black deluxe int w/AC/tilt/tele./p/w-p/b/ Am-Fm/map light National/Regional/Chapter NCRS "Top Flight" #2-1985 Bright Red/Carmine Cp.L-98/auto Member: NCRS, NCRS Texas, Corvette Legends of Texas
Compression looks ok, and the one lower cyl could be due to several factors, such as battery state of charge, and the method used to test.
Did you have all of the plugs out?
Did you have the throttle open all the way for the tests?

One lower cyl. could be from a too loose/tight valve adjustment, a bad lifter/cam lobe, or ring/cyl wear.
If you haven't already pulled it, you might try squirting a little engine oil down in that cylinder, and check the compression again, to see if it comes up. If it does, than you may have a little more leakage past the rings than on the other cylinders. I would run the test again, just to be sure, and make sure to have all of the same conditions while checking all of the cylinders....all plugs out, and throttle wide open.(remove the 12v power from the coil first, of course)

I like the cam specs, what I can see, tho it might have a bit too much duration, depending on the compression ratio. Anything that close to 300 is gonna be a bit lumpy, and vacuum is prolly suffering, too. If, however, the engine has a 10-10 1/2 compression ratio, it looks perfect.

I don't have my casting book handy, but it looks like the block may be a later casting, but don't quote me on that.


Joel Adams
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need engine advice..

Posted: 6/26/08 2:20am Message 3 of 8
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COPPERAS COVE, TX - USA
Joined: 7/6/2002
Posts: 417
Vette(s): 1972 corvette stingray convertible 2007 coupe
14093638...350...87-95...2 or 4...Roller or flat tappet cam, one-piece rear seal, hope this helps you.


need engine advice..

Posted: 6/26/08 4:26am Message 4 of 8
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yes on all plug out, throttle open,hei coil unpluged..

I made sure the battery was charged for all of the testing.

I am going to do the "wet test" today on the one cylinder.

Question: how do I know what compression ratio I have? and how do I do the math to figure out what I have?   

Question 2: what creates the duration value and can I change it? is this base on timing?

Thanks, Joe :)80VetteMan2008-06-26 04:27:59


need engine advice..

Posted: 6/26/08 5:07am Message 5 of 8
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Duncanville, TX - USA
Joined: 11/8/2003
Posts: 20214
Vette(s): #1-1974 L-48 4spd Cp Med Red Metallic/Black deluxe int w/AC/tilt/tele./p/w-p/b/ Am-Fm/map light National/Regional/Chapter NCRS "Top Flight" #2-1985 Bright Red/Carmine Cp.L-98/auto Member: NCRS, NCRS Texas, Corvette Legends of Texas
Comp ratio has to do with bore size, stroke, rod length, pin location(height) in the piston, piston shape(dome/flat/dish), and the chamber volume of the heads. There has been a couple of threads posted with the basic method of checking comp ratio, but I'm not sure where they are...might need to do a search.

The cam duration is a mechanical function of the cam lobe design...it is how long the valve is held open in regards to the degree of crankshaft rotation. The only way to change that is by changing the cam itself. Not saying that what you have won't work, but it does appear to be best suited for a low rear gear/4 speed vehicle, which your car may be...I don't know what you have. There are other variables too, such as lobe separation, and cam timing specs that need to be considered here.
Hopefully Ken, or someone else can elaborate.


Joel Adams
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need engine advice..

Posted: 6/27/08 9:21am Message 6 of 8
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Mounds View, MN - USA
Joined: 5/24/2007
Posts: 1031
Vette(s): 70 LT1 coupe, 69 350 HP coupe, 69 390HP 427 coupe, 71 LS5 convert, 85 coupe, 93 coupe
Joel is right in saying you seem to have a lot of cam duration.  And that much duration with only .460 lift doesn't seem right.  Assuming "small chamber heads" means 64cc, you can look into a cylinder with a small light and see if you have flat pistons.  If you do, depending a lot of small variables such as deck height, gasket thickness, etc, compression should be in the range of 9.8:1 or so.  With a cam of about 268 duration, .490 lift and conservative lobe spacing, you should have a very nice driving car.  To support 278 degrees, you should have well over 10:1 compression and either deep gears (4-speed) or a high stall speed torque converter (automatic).  If you are pulling your engine, changing the cam is not a big deal.  Call Comp Cams and ask their recommendation.

Larry



need engine advice..

Posted: 6/27/08 12:10pm Message 7 of 8
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SHELBYVILLE, TN - USA
Joined: 7/5/2002
Posts: 3942
Vette(s): 1976 L48 auto

1978 L82 4speed

1994 LT1 6speed
 
14093638
1987-95 350 2/4 Roller or flat tappet cam one-piece rear seal
thats the casting # the years it was produced, cubic inch  2 or 4 bolt main...and note the one piece rear seal
 
and i guess i should look more closer.. fp vetter already posted that..  oops :)
stingrayjim2008-06-27 12:12:56


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need engine advice..

Posted: 6/27/08 7:31pm Message 8 of 8
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CUYAHOGA FALLS, OH - USA
Joined: 12/2/2003
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Vette(s): 1975 C3 Red, T-Tops, Black Interior. All I need is time and money! Getting there!
IF you can picture the space in the cylinder, not in the cylinder head, when the piston is down, the picture the space that is gone when the piston is all the way up, this is the cubic inch displacement.  Hence, how much volume is displaced by the piston.  The space above the piston is what the air in the cylinder is squished into. 
If the space from the piston is 10 times as much as the space in the head, it is a 10:1 compression ratio.   If it is only 8.5 times as much, the compression ratio is 8.5:1.
The smaller the space in the head, the higher the ratio.
 
Higher ratios make more horsepower and torque than lower ones, all other things being equal.  But all other things are not equal.  The cam is one of them.
 
When the valves open, the intake actually opens before the exhaust valve closes.  This is valve overlap.  The volume of air leaving the cylinder is an object in motion that then creates a vacuum to help pull more fresh air into the cylinder, and get more old exhaust out.   But for this to work well you need the speed.   Slow the flow down due to closing the throttle and letting the rpm drop, and the flow suffers to the point where you do not clear the exhaust out of the cylinder.  This poor exchange of gasses is what causes the rough lumpy idle of very agressive cam shafts.
 
To get rid of the roughness, we reduce the overlap where they are both open.  This gives us a good idle by not allowing the intake and exhaust to mix.  But this is restrictive at high rpm, robbing power.  You can't have both with standard valve/cam technology.
 
Granted, intake manifolds and exhaust systems will influence the air flow.  But without the valve operation, it won't matter very much.  Some engines, like ours, are designed (hopefully) to have a balance of the two conditions, while still meeting emissions standards.   We modify them from there.
 
A very large valve lift has the effect of more overlap.  To get the valve open that high, we also have to start the cam lobe sooner, and finish it later.  The cam lobe ramp can only be so steep without causing problems.  Roller cams can use steeper ramps than standard cams.  So large lift gives more overlap.  Good for power, sucks at ldle.   The roller cams can compensate for this a bit by getting the lift with less ramp, thus less overlap.  The roller also requires less friction, freeing up a bit of horsepower that can get to the wheels.
 
This gets you the basics.  I have not gottin into fuels or cylinder piston and head shapes.  I will be glad to answer further questions if you like.



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