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Topic: No Start Panic Setting In!!

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No Start Panic Setting In!!

Posted: 10/4/07 4:49pm Message 1 of 12
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Clarksville, TN - USA
Joined: 10/22/2005
Posts: 266
Vette(s): 1977 L48 T Top, Dark Blue

I have had my choke set very lean (Carter Quadra Jet) and started to have some cold start issues.  When we got ready to leave Funfest, Vince Igo helped me out by performing the old hand choke, cupping his hands over the carb while I turned it over, started right up!  Ran great all the way back to Tennessee.  This past Saturday I decided to adjust the choke and from a cold condition I pumped the throttle 1 time and loosened and rotated the choke adjustment just enough to close the choke and re-tightened.   I turned it over and it started right up.  I let it run long enough to be sure the choke would go to the fully open position, it did.  I cleaned the carb with some spray cleaner and it ran great.  Shut it off and restarted several times and it started instantly.   Pulled it in the garage and shut it off.  Tuesday I hop in headed for the local Vett monthly club meeting and cranked it dead, barley fired once or twiceAngry.  Since then I have pulled and cleaned  the plugs confirmed spark and timing.  Plugs were gas soaked and fowled. 

I tried tonight and never even touched the gas and the carb appears to be loaded with gas.  I'm thinking maybe the float is stuck???  The plugs are soaked with gas.  The distributor is new, less than a year.  The carb came with the car obviously not original.  I have not done anything to it but clean it.  The plugs and wires don't have 5000 miles on them. 
It's got me pulling out my hair, what's left!!   Any suggestions, I'm thinking carb issue.     Classic Corvette Extravaganza is a week awaydoh!!
Thanks!!


Mel
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No Start Panic Setting In!!

Posted: 10/4/07 8:12pm Message 2 of 12
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Duncanville, TX - USA
Joined: 11/8/2003
Posts: 20214
Vette(s): #1-1974 L-48 4spd Cp Med Red Metallic/Black deluxe int w/AC/tilt/tele./p/w-p/b/ Am-Fm/map light National/Regional/Chapter NCRS "Top Flight" #2-1985 Bright Red/Carmine Cp.L-98/auto Member: NCRS, NCRS Texas, Corvette Legends of Texas
Mel, pull all of the plugs and let that puppy air out! If you have air, blow into all of the cylinders thru the plug holes, and then open the carb ALL the way up, and stick something in there to hold the throttle open, and blow thru the intake, on all four corners of the carb.
Ya gotta dry that thing out before all that fuel winds up in the crankcase.
Once you have it dried, install the plugs, make sure the choke is not closed, and fire it up. It should start once you get all of the raw fuel dried. If the carb is flooding, it will be obvious, as you'll be able to see fuel dripping, or pouring down the front venturis of the carb. If it is flooding, you may need to have it cleaned, or you could try lightly tapping on the front of the carb, where the fuel line goes in, with a small hammer. A lot of time, if there is some crap stuck in the needle/seat, tapping on it will dislodge it. Tapping will also un-stick a stuck float, but that's not a permanent fix for that.

"I pumped the throttle 1 time and loosened and rotated the choke adjustment just enough to close the choke and re-tightened.

You should not pump the carb until you have the choke set. If you pumped it, then turned the choke adjustment, you did nothing but put a lot of tension on the choke, and then the next time the throttle was opened, the choke flapped all the way shut(depending on how hot it is at the time). To set the choke, prop the throttle open a little, then set the choke...


Joel Adams
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No Start Panic Setting In!!

Posted: 10/5/07 4:40am Message 3 of 12
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Clarksville, TN - USA
Joined: 10/22/2005
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Vette(s): 1977 L48 T Top, Dark Blue
Thanks for the info, I thought you had to pump 1 time to get the choke to react.  It was stone cold when I did this.  I'll try to get her dried out.  It's and old Carter quadrajet, not attached to it.  I'm looking real hard at the Eldabrok 600cfm electric choke.  My neighbor has one in his 76 and has had good results....
 
Thanks again Joel!!



Mel
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No Start Panic Setting In!!

Posted: 10/5/07 5:07am Message 4 of 12
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Duncanville, TX - USA
Joined: 11/8/2003
Posts: 20214
Vette(s): #1-1974 L-48 4spd Cp Med Red Metallic/Black deluxe int w/AC/tilt/tele./p/w-p/b/ Am-Fm/map light National/Regional/Chapter NCRS "Top Flight" #2-1985 Bright Red/Carmine Cp.L-98/auto Member: NCRS, NCRS Texas, Corvette Legends of Texas
Normally, IF the choke is set correctly, you would pump it once to set the choke, but...you said you had it set "lean", which means there was no tension on the choke spring. Opening the throttle would do nothing, as far as moving the choke, in that case. You would need to open the throttle up a bit, and then adjust the choke so it would close almost completely, close the throttle, and then start. It should start on "fast" idle, and the choke should open slowly as it warms up.
You should also check to see if the choke pull-off is working, once it does start. If the engine is cold, and you pump the pedal once, it will slam all the way shut. Then, once started, the pull-off should open the choke blade up a bit, so the engine doesn't flood from not enough air. The pull-off is on the pass side, rear of the carb, and is vacuum operated.


Joel Adams
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No Start Panic Setting In!!

Posted: 10/5/07 6:18pm Message 5 of 12
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Clarksville, TN - USA
Joined: 10/22/2005
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Vette(s): 1977 L48 T Top, Dark Blue
I wimped out Joel and picked up the Edelbock after workEmbarrassed!!  I'm a sucker for shiny!!  Really, I just want the car to start!!!  It has been getting harder and harder to start lately.  If it were the original quadra-jet I would rebuild it.  We'll see how this Edelbrock does!
 
Thanks for your help!!



Mel
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No Start Panic Setting In!!

Posted: 10/6/07 6:50pm Message 6 of 12
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Clarksville, TN - USA
Joined: 10/22/2005
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Vette(s): 1977 L48 T Top, Dark Blue
Changed the carb out today. Had to fabricate block offs on the intake for the choke heat tubes and the EGR valve.  The EGR valve interfered with  the carb so it had to go.   Had to get creative with the throttle and trans kick down, but got it all working smooth.
 
Now for the bad news, still will not start and run.  It fires but will not stay running.  I had a backup control module, changed it and the same thing.  The cap, coil, and rotor are new along with the distributor (about a year old).  I tried moving the timing (clockwise)and it fired better but popped back though the carb. It still would not start and run. I set it back to where it was. 
I pulled all the plugs and blew out all the cylinders as Joel recommended, left them out all day while I worked on the carb install.
I'm running out of ideasWits%20End!  When I parked it a week ago it was running great.  I'm open to any and all ideas!!!!  
 
Thanks 



Mel
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No Start Panic Setting In!!

Posted: 10/6/07 7:01pm Message 7 of 12
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Duncanville, TX - USA
Joined: 11/8/2003
Posts: 20214
Vette(s): #1-1974 L-48 4spd Cp Med Red Metallic/Black deluxe int w/AC/tilt/tele./p/w-p/b/ Am-Fm/map light National/Regional/Chapter NCRS "Top Flight" #2-1985 Bright Red/Carmine Cp.L-98/auto Member: NCRS, NCRS Texas, Corvette Legends of Texas
Time for a compression test, it sounds like...
It may have jumped time(timing chain).
It's obviously got fuel, so how good is the spark? Sometimes, when plugs get really wet-fuel soaked, they are no good any more...they just won't fire properly. Ya might screw a new set in there first, and see if that is the problem.
Try to borrow/buy a spark tester...one of those tools that hooks up to the plug end of the wire, that has an adjustable gap(set the gap a little wider than you would for the spark plug), and see how good the spark is. It should be a nice, strong, blue spark. A yellow spark is weak, and may not fire. If you have a good, blue spark, then...you probably have a cam timing issue.
Fuel+Spark+Compression = Runs...but...it all has to happen at the right time.
The fact that it was running before you messed with it(just funnin!) seems to lean toward the plugs just being fuel soaked...swap them out and see what happens. You need new ones now anyway...


Joel Adams
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No Start Panic Setting In!!

Posted: 10/6/07 8:04pm Message 8 of 12
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Clarksville, TN - USA
Joined: 10/22/2005
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Vette(s): 1977 L48 T Top, Dark Blue
Thanks, I'll get a set tomorrow.  I was running Bosh Platinums, have never used them before.  I think I will go back to the AC delcos.  This is turning out to be an expensive weekendCry!! 
 
 
 
Thanks!



Mel
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No Start Panic Setting In!!

Posted: 10/6/07 9:55pm Message 9 of 12
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SHELBYVILLE, TN - USA
Joined: 7/5/2002
Posts: 3942
Vette(s): 1976 L48 auto

1978 L82 4speed

1994 LT1 6speed
not to sound like "mr obvious".. but.. you might go back over your vacuum lines.. just in case... i know i've been guilty of tinkering with something under the hood, and accidently "bump" off a larger vacuum hose(like brake booster or pcv line).... though, that wouldn't explain the gas soaked plugs...


StingrayJim
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No Start Panic Setting In!!

Posted: 10/7/07 2:14pm Message 10 of 12
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Clarksville, TN - USA
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Vette(s): 1977 L48 T Top, Dark Blue
Got It!!Clap 
  Put in new plugs, nothing!  Used an induction timing light and had spark at the cap but not at the plug.  Logic is telling me bad wires.  Run a new set of wires straight to the plugs, disconnect the old and leave them in place, nothing.  Same thing , spark at the cap but not down at the plug.  I slide the induction pickup half way to the plug, nothing, back to the cap got spark.  Now I'm thinking weak coil.  I had the coil off my old distributor so I put it in and bingo, fires right up and purrs like a kitten!!   That coil isn't a year old, came with the distributor from Mid America.  I noticed the new cap only had 2 male connectors for the pickup harness to plug into, even though the harness from the pickup had 3 wires.  The center wire is a ground, my old coil has 3 male connectors.  It has been working fine up until now, must be an additional ground that is not needed.  ???
 
Reset the idol and timing and she runs better than ever!!   CCX here we come!!  It's just not the same to drive anything other than a Corvette to a Corvette function!!
 
Joel and Jim, thanks for your advice and encouragement!!  That's what makes C3VR so great!!
 
Thanks!!



Mel
Lifetime Member #90

 

in Forum: C3 Engines


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